Every now and then, you get asked a question for which the answer seems so blatantly obvious, that you feel it’s ridiculous it was even asked.
A question like, for example, did the Golden State Warriors recent dynasty actually underachieve?
After the Toronto Raptors defeated the Warriors in Game 6 of the NBA Finals to claim the 2019 championship, I was posed this very question and I immediately dismissed it as utterly stupid.
Five straight NBA finals appearances, and three championships. If that’s underachieving, then sign me up for some, please.
The person who asked the question – a friend whose identity I will protect for the sake of their credibility – then went on to point out that for all the Warriors talent over the last five seasons, they’ll ‘only’ walk away with three rings.
That they were up 3-1 against Cleveland in 2016. And they entered this season as such unbackable favourites that many people said the season would be a waste of time.
My friend – who has now been downgraded to ‘acquaintance’ – reasoned that the Warriors choked in 2016, and were the favourites this year but didn’t win, thus leaving “two rings on the table”, and hence, they underachieved.
I’ll be honest: all these facts did give me reason to pause and consider my initial position of thinking the question was preposterous.
Kawhi Leonard in the NBA Finals (Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)
There is a tendency these days to immediately dismiss unpopular or left-field opinions as nothing more than ‘hot takes’; to believe that the intent of the opinion is to attract attention, rather than the individual actually believing what they’re saying. Call it the ‘Skip Bayless Effect’, if you will.
However, not every viewpoint that you vehemently disagree with should automatically be classified a hot take. It may just be a difference of opinion.
As such, I didn’t want to arrogantly reject the question outright, and I’ll broadly repeat what I said to my friend, in case there are others out there that feel it’s a legitimate enquiry.
The first thing to unpack is the assumption that this Warriors dynasty is even over. Is it? While it’s been assumed that superstar Kevin Durant would be leaving, it was far from a fait accompli, and there were plenty of people that believed Durant was a big chance of staying at Golden State.
ESPN writer Brian Windhorst reports that the Warriors intend to offer Kevin Durant and fellow free agent Klay Thompson full five-year max contracts.
Ignoring the elephant in the room that both players are likely to miss most – if not all – of next season due an Achilles and ACL injury, respectively, but if Durant and Thompson accept those offers, the nucleus of the Warriors dynasty would be locked up for many seasons to come.
Having three of the greatest shooters of all time on your roster is an assurance that your team is a contender. Plus, even if Durant does leave, the Warriors still have a championship-winning core in All-Stars Steph Curry, Draymond Green (pending his own free agency) and Thompson.
As such, it’s not even fair to judge this era if we’re still in the middle of it. There’s every chance Golden State isn’t done winning titles yet.
However, let’s just pretend for a second that this is the end of the dynasty, and we’re asking if the Warriors underachieved. My answer remains a firm ‘hell no’.
We’ll ignore the three championships Golden State won, because it’s impossible to underachieve if you win the title. So what we’re focussing on is the two lost series in 2016 and 2019.
Stephen Curry is under serious play-off pressure. (AP Photo/Scott Threlkeld)
We’ll start with this year, as it’s more straight forward.
Even the most talented teams, in any sport, need a little bit of luck to succeed. Whether it’s officiating, health, or the bounce of the ball, you need a few things to go your way in order to win. Having amazing talent improves your margin of error, but you still need luck.
When it comes to luck via health, it works two ways: you can come up against opponents that are not fully fit, or you can have zero injury concerns yourself. In that regard, the Warriors have been a little lucky over the years. In 2019, that luck ran out. And then some.
Losing Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson was too much for the Warriors to overcome. Not just because they’re elite-level talents, but because the over-investment in said talent means the Warriors sacrificed depth.
You could argue that decision cost them a ring, but I’m not sure that’s fair or true. Whether you have a lone star player, or five star players, if you lose one, the impact will be felt.
More depth may not have been enough to beat Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors anyway.
It’s also worth mentioning that the Warriors may have been victims of their own success. They have played more games than everyone else during their dynasty run, because they’ve gone further in the playoffs than everyone else.
That may have contributed to the injuries they sustained. Yet even if they didn’t, it would have certainly added to a fatigue factor, and therefore a disadvantage.
Whatever the case, injuries happen in sport, and they happened to the Warriors this post-season. It robbed whatever chance they had of winning the title, and it can’t be held against them. The bottom line is that you can’t say they underachieved this season.
Los Angeles Lakers forward LeBron James (23) talks to Golden State Warriors forward Kevin Durant (AP Photo/Tony Avelar)
The 2016 title is a more interesting discussion.
The Warriors became the first team in NBA history to lose a finals series after being up 3-1, and lost Game 7 on their home court.
Calling it a ‘choke’ may or may not be a bit harsh, but they certainly had hand one hand on the Larry O’Brien Trophy, and if not for Draymond Green getting suspended for game five, they may have wrapped the series up in a ‘gentleman’s sweep’.
Yet I’m not sure how much disgrace there is in losing to the best player of his generation, in his prime. LeBron James averaged 29.7 points, 11.3 rebound, 8.9 assists, 2.6 steals and 2.3 blocks, on his way to 2016 Finals MVP.
He was ably backed up by Kyrie Irving, who averaged 27.1 points per game, and hit the dagger 3-pointer in Game 7 to give Cleveland the title.
It’s undoubtedly a title Golden State feel they should have won, but is losing in game 7 of the NBA Finals against LeBron James really ‘underachieving’? I think not.
Truth is, it’s really hard to win a title. It’s even harder to win them back-to-back. The Warriors did both.
Five years, five Finals appearances, three championships. Golden State have been the absolute gold standard in basketball for the last half decade, and in no way, shape or form did they underachieve.
Plus, they may not even be done.
Kannga2
Roar Rookie
That bulls team is the best ever imo
Davico
Roar Pro
Take a chill pill pal. Apparently if someone does not agree with your opinion, and it is an opinion, you have a little hissy fit. Do I think that a team that won 73 games in a season and got beat in the Finals underachieved? YES! Do you not?
mushi
Roar Guru
You get nothing. If you read the final paragraph of what you just responded to: "The point of the original comment though was that if you’ve had a better 5 year stretch than the modern high water mark for teams it’s hard to be too harsh on the success." I acknowledge the Bulls are the high water mark, do you "get" what that term means? The article is about under achievement. Hence the reference of if you can have 5 year period better than you should be pretty happy. The only way you can consider it under achievement is if you're sayingthe Warriors are unequivocally better than those Bulls and should hope for more. Also you still made the ridiculous statement that the 8 was a certainty. You're claiming to be able, with certainty, predict the outcome of a five seasons when this years Warriors started at shorter odds than most of those bulls teams. "I get" that you must be a self made billionaire with that precognition.
Davico
Roar Pro
OK I will bite. Your hot take is the one where a team that did not 3 peat is better over a 5 year stretch than a team that did it twice in an 8 year period. Either way you cut it. The Bulls did it twice and the Warriors did not complete the task Ask anyone who plays any sport and ask them if they would rather go to 5 Finals and win 3 or win 3 titles, still make the playoffs (ranked 3 and 5 in the East, including a 55 win season without the GOAT), and then comeback and win another 3 titles, and I think I know what they would choose. Who has had the better 6 year stretch? 7 Year stretch? 10 year stretch? You can cherry pick any thing to suit your narrative. I get that you probably were not fortunate enough to actually witness how good that Bulls team was so I get that you have a bias. But please…..
mushi
Roar Guru
But he did retire right, Or are we playing the what if game and rewriting history. What if Draymond doesn't get suspended. What if Klay AND Durant aren't injured. If, if, if. The assumption under that Bulls guarantee of 8 in a row is huge it assumes Jordan's mental health was perfectly fine and he quit on a whim etc. Or that he plays on after 4. Or that injuries don't happen in the parallel universe of the 8 peat, or pippen sucks it up for 8 To guarantee they win 8 us just a hot take. The point of the original comment though was that if you've had a better 5 year stretch than then modern high water mark for teams it's hard to be too harsh on the success.
Davico
Roar Pro
The Warriors also never 3 peated and will not do so in the foreseeable future. The Bulls win 8 in a row if the greatest to ever play the game does not retire for 2 years at the peak of his powers.
Davico
Roar Pro
Jordan's Bulls had 2 3-Peats! You don't have them above the Warriors? They would have won 8 in a row had Jordan not retired to play Baseball
DingoGray
Roar Guru
Don't know I'd be willing to answer either of those questions Ryan, but geez they've been fun to watch! I can't wait to see what Free Agency brings? I think it's going to have a massive impact on answering both of your questions as well.... Who lands where is going to be fascinating
bell31
Guest
Chuckle - it is a good line that he's now an acquaintance. I liked your article - no way they've under-achieved - it takes away from those Cavs teams and this year, wow, talk about injuries (3 of their starting 5, plus Iggy often banged up). I am, however, slightly disappointed that luck didn't fall their way in terms of injuries and I hope this Golden State era isn't over, b/c for now, I'd probably have them 5th in my pecking order of all-time teams - I think they may struggle to catch the 80s Lakes though overall 1) 50s/60s Celtics 2) 90s Bulls 3) 50s 'Lakers' (although I know nothing about this team, but purely on 5 titles in 6 years) 4) 80s Lakers 5) Current GSW in a tie with the early 00's Lakers 7) 80s Celtics
Adam Willis
Guest
They've got at least 2 more titles left in them. But I think they'll have to rotate during the regular season a lot more than they have. Lock down Steph, Klay and KD, then see how much bench strength they can get by putting Iguodala and possibly Draymond out on the trade market.
Mark
Guest
Zaza took Kawhi out in game 1 of the 2017 Western Conference finals, when the Spurs were leading by a large margin. The Warriors came back to beat the weakened Spurs in game 1 and easily won the series. The Warriors were a bit lucky in 2015 with injuries to the Cavs. In 2016 they were unlucky in that Curry was injured during the playoffs and was not at his best in the finals, and Bogut was badly injured in game 6 and missed game 7. They got a bit lucky in 2017, then in 2018 they again got lucky when Chris Paul missed game 6 and was limited in game 7 of the Western finals. In 2019 luck was against them. In the end, I think 3 out of 5 is about right.
Steele
Guest
No way have they underachieved. Its much more than just a little lucky with other teams injuries(it’s been unbelievable). 2015 for me was gonna be a Cavs win. They were two - one up with Delly as there starting PG for those two wins. By 2016 GSW had built momentum and belief off the previous yrs win and actually got better, yet they still lost. This made them realise they needed something to tip the balance in their own favour in what was a fascinatingly even two sides. In comes KD and ruins everything. That’s why people got mad as it was such a cop out. Basically accepting they were not good enough. This year proved once again they couldn’t get it done without KD. I’m confident if everyone else was fit other than him, Toronto still would of won in seven. You must remember they played 8 times this yr for six wins. Factor in Zaza’s dirty play on Kawhi in 17s conference finals and Chris Paul’s untimely injury in last yrs finals then you have a lot to weigh up. 2017 was probably a bridge too far for SAN Antonio in 17, but they were looking good, yet Paul’s last yr really did cost Houston and they were not as good this year. If you weigh all that up 3 feels about right for me.
mushi
Roar Guru
And yet the bulls don't have a better 5 year stretch...
astro
Roar Rookie
The Warriors didn't underachieve....But, I find it interesting that some seem to think this. Maybe we need to reconsider what the definition of 'underachieving' is, in the modern NBA era. With so much player movement and an incredible depth of talent across the league now, the days of the Bulls winning 6 championships are gone. The statement "it’s really hard to win a title. It’s even harder to win them back-to-back." is very true, and truer today more than ever, I think.
Brian
Guest
I agree their not done both Klay and KD could still impact the playoffs next year whilst Curry and Green give you enough to make the playoffs even in the West. On their era injuries helped them as well. In 2015 Irving went down in game 1 and given they won that game 1 in OT and lost the next 2 its doubtful they win that series otherwise. They also Zaza taking Leonard out can't recall the year. 3 rings is about right the greatest team ever though of course our nostalgia and stats will have them below the Bulls, Celtics etc.
josh
Roar Rookie
Leonard, is the example I try to impress in my kid's teams. He's not there to look good or get the highlight packages. He's there to win.
mushi
Roar Guru
Put it this way Ryan. At the start of their “dynasty” would your acquaintance have put them at 2:1 odds to win each and every year before the tip off (that’s pretty bloody tight in a 30 horse race) If the answer is a revisitionsit history yes … then they still overachieved marginally with 3 out of 5 and getting to the finals in the other 2. The choke thing is always incredibly denigrating to the opponent. Your acquaintance basically believe neither a LeBron led Cavaliers or a Leonard led raptors had any reason to be in those series as a choke is only applicable when only one team had any influence on the result. A horrendous run of luck on Injuries was their biggest threat… and then they got a Durant injury, Looney banged up Klay banged and then broken and Cousins never rounded back into Cousins. Not that they can complain as luck got them into the salary cap position (curry’s ankles, Klay’s slightly late leap, the cap explosion after the thunder go down in a heart breaker to them and Cousins injury). Their run (if it ends here) puts them behind that Celtics team of the 50s and 60s and the Minny team of the 50s (you know when the Lakers were near a natural lake). I couldn’t see any other team that won 4 or 5 (Assuming most would prefer 4wins and no 5th appearance to 3-2) , or went 3-2 in the finals. The closest you can go is “LeBron teams” but it's two different sides
Red Kev
Roar Guru
No way the Warriors underachieved. More importantly, the ‘dynasty’ might be over because they won’t be in the finals next year, but this era of the Warriors is not, they still have at least one more Finals run in them in my opinion the AD trade notwithstanding (even if Durant leaves – and in my estimation the Thomson injury makes it more likely that Durant leaves – that still holds true). I did want to add a few of points of consideration to the discussion though: (1) The 2015 title was heavily influenced by injuries. If Love and Kyrie are both healthy, that series could easily have been the Cav’s. Given, as you put it, the best player of the generation was in his prime, a split of the 2015 and 2016 titles seems about right. (2) In 2017, that Cavs team was historically offensively brilliant. The numbers are staggering, had they not run into a team starting four all-stars, they probably win the title. Durant (as Windhorst likes to put it) gives them an MVP in reserve and a massive margin for error that no other team has. (3) Regarding the point about the Warriors’ luck in being healthy for their finals runs until this year. I am not certain it was all luck. Remember they let their head of performance therapy and recovery leave at the start of the season because they wouldn’t pay her what she wanted…talk about chickens coming home to roost. (4) Kawhi Leonard, Kingslayer. LeBron’s Heat were trying to three peat and got taken down by a Kawhi Finals MVP performance with the Spurs. Durant’s Warriors were trying to three-peat and got taken down by a Kawhi Finals MVP performance with the Raptors. Sure there were other factors, but the man is a killer. Also, this is gold: My friend – who has now been downgraded to ‘acquaintance’