Ireland vs New Zealand: Betting against the greenback

By Sinclair Whitbourne / Roar Rookie

Typhoon allowing, this looks like being the quarter-final neither Ireland nor New Zealand probably really wanted.

But the rest of us can lick our lips in anticipation. They say in finance that you should never bet against the greenback. Whichever of Ireland or New Zealand is your idea of the greenback, but unless you’re tipping a draw, you’re going to have to do the unthinkable.

A rugby truism is that forwards win games but backs decide by how much. It’s hard to separate the two sides in the battle up front. The scrum looks evenly matched, but Ireland have something of an advantage, in part because of the excellent Tadhg Furlong. The newer New Zealand props look a little vulnerable to me on the loosehead side, and in the November 2018 match Ireland were able to put a lot of pressure on New Zealand at scrum time, a good example coming at about 25 minutes in.

The lineout is likely to be similarly tight. Ireland will point to their own lineout ball efficiency, and they may have the edge in terms of the reliability of their lineout throwing. However, New Zealand have a superb defensive lineout, with Kieran Read, Brodie Retallick and Sam Whitelock, and one can easily imagine a defensive steal turning a tight match. The power of this trio at scrum time is also important.

So perhaps it’s a slight advantage to Ireland at the set piece, but the New Zealand defensive lineout is a thing to break hearts and make a not-so-happy hooker.

(Phil Walter/Getty Images)

In the loose, the return of Retallick and Read strikes me as significant. Both looked below par in the November 2018 loss to Ireland after a draining match against England. Whilst Retallick will lack match fitness, he will be fresh. Retallick and Read in form lift decision-making, workload and power in the loose, giving a dimension to the New Zealand pack that is crucial post-Jerome Kaino. New Zealand have not managed to replace Kaino. Kaino created time and space for his inside backs in both defence and attack.

Ireland’s forwards are organised, brutal and efficient and don’t concede much to NZ. Christiaan Stander’s form for Ireland has been a little off this Rugby World Cup, but if he lifts, New Zealand’s inside backs will be under pressure.

Last November New Zealand missed the brutal defensive efficiency of Sam Cane, so his return is a major plus, especially combined with the dynamism of Ardie Savea. Until recently Savea’s work rate and power were often underestimated. I don’t think there is a player like him in world rugby. In the loose, with the positive changes from last November, I think New Zealand can produce some key moments of dominance in what will otherwise be a brutal and fascinating battle. If they can do this, it will take New Zealand a long way closer to a win.

(AP/Peter Morrison)

Turning to the wider game, New Zealand’s developing game plan ‘Bea’unga’, symbolised by the selection of both Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo’unga, offers a point of difference over the All Blacks’ recent games against Ireland. My initial take on Bea’unga was that it was essentially a failure of selection dressed up as a game plan.

There was always going to be a question about how they would work together. Early outings seemed to indicate problems as well as benefits, but the combination appears to have settled down – a testament to the players’ ability to put aside their egos for the team? – and one way or another it appears Bea’unga is part of New Zealand evolving a new way of playing.

As such, it appears to be about moving the focus away from areas where they have relative lack of dominance – brutal forward battles and the rush defence, which turns the game into an attritional contest – and shifting it to an area where New Zealand continue to have a significant advantage, namely the ability to rapidly counter-punch, as per their pool match against South Africa. I see Bea’unga as having the potential to be a point of difference that enables New Zealand to evade death by suffocation.

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Both sides have strong defences in terms of the initial collisions and in the subsequent ruck/maul contests. Both cover breaks in the line with considerable efficiency, although I have been really impressed by the speed in cover of both Barrett and George Bridge, and I think New Zealand have a slight edge there.

NZ have some vulnerability in close to the ruck but have shown they can close that down, as shown in the 2019 drubbing of Australia, who showed Yes, Minister-type courage in attempting to replicate the Perth tactics in Auckland, and against Argentina in 2017, when Argentina really took things to them in the first half. It is never wise to expect that New Zealand will not adapt to you repeatedly striking at a particular weaker point.

Referees can play a big role in tight games – the third Lions vs New Zealand Test in 2017 being just one example. I have read that New Zealand sides have had an upward trend in yellow cards since 2016. However, at this tournament it seems that New Zealand have gone on a charm offensive, and it’s hard not to feel that it may have yielded some results.

Ireland have had some issues, and the public complaints about the officiating by Ireland after their loss to Japan have probably not greatly helped them. I generally think that complaining about the officiating after a match is a bit like politicians complaining about media treatment – whatever the merits, it rarely improves the way they are treated.

(Phil Walter/Getty Images)

Refereeing gripes may reflect a side whose game plans have not kept up with changes in rules and interpretations, which may be an issue for Ireland. Much better to do your talking pre-game and keep your criticisms for behind the scenes post-game. If you feel you are getting treated harshly, you may need to look at why and find out from the officials what their perceptions are about how you are playing.

I don’t see much separating the sides in terms of leadership. Both are highly disciplined and smart in their approach to pushing the limits of the referee. My sense is that New Zealand do have more capacity to vary their game if plan A is not working, which is largely about the leadership of both the captain and key players.

However, I don’t see the current side as having the leadership across the park of the great side of circa 2011-16. Against the Lions in 2017, against South Africa several times recently, against Ireland in Chicago and a few times against Australia, notably in Brisbane in 2017 and Perth in 2019, New Zealand have struggled to adapt to referee interpretations and to sides that have managed to work into the very few New Zealand frailties.

Ireland have also struggled to adapt this year, partly because of injuries and perhaps because teams are getting more familiar with their style.

Both sides can play tight, grinding, territorial rugby if conditions create a slippery ball. Both have excellent kicking games and more than one good kicker. Both chase very efficiently and can use the kick as an offensive weapon. Dry, hard conditions would probably favour New Zealand, but their handling generally is not as variable as, say, Australia’s when the ball gets slippery. High heat and humidity won’t help Ireland who, like Wales, have wilted a bit in the last 20 to 30 minutes, even with reserves coming on. I suspect New Zealand will feel that, if they can hold Ireland, they can put on points late in the game.

Considering the above, New Zealand is more likely to win despite Ireland having a very good recent record against them. If Ireland get everything pretty much right and have one or two breaks go their way – like Read’s knock-on with the try line calling in November 2018 – they are a good enough side to win.

New Zealand will need their forwards to put in a very big shift to create at least some moments of time and space for their inside backs, something they struggled to do in the recent losses but managed in wins. That is the thing with New Zealand – you just need to be slightly off once or twice in a game and they can break you open.

Watching the All Blacks reminds me of watching the great West Indies or Australian cricket teams of days gone by, or of the Tour de France stars – they can smell a moment of weakness and find the extra gear to exploit it. That is why anyone who loves the game of rugby more than they love a particular team should love watching New Zealand in rugby.

My bet is on the top currency in international rugby – like its counterpart, it may not be what it used to be, but it is still a beast.

The Crowd Says:

2019-10-16T01:11:54+00:00

taylorman

Roar Guru


Looks like we'll have to get a SH side to knock them off then...

2019-10-16T00:51:03+00:00

ShaghaiDoc

Roar Rookie


I have forgotten who said it but, "some people should stay silent and risk appearing stupid rather than confirming by speaking".

2019-10-15T16:40:22+00:00

thebleedingobvious

Roar Rookie


What does Japan beating Ireland and Scotland mean for this game, it shows that Ireland arn’t playing as bad as some people think. Japan is just playing exceptional but won’t beat Boks, given they can only really play the high tempo wide game, which the Boks will be able to nullify with their superior defence and set piece dominance, esp. lineout/ lineout drive and physicality at breakdown, slowing down Japan ball. I don’t see japan out pressuring Boks for front foot ball, just feeding off turnovers. It’s predictable how Japan must play and Erasmus is a smart coach. That missed game V Italy is a big blow for AB’s, not only needed game time for Retallick and maybe Goodhue but more important, they get rusty with too much time off and havn’t had a hard game since a month ago V Boks, this was a planned and important part of their preparation and Hansen gotta be disappointed and worried for not having the Italy hit out to tune them up and stress them physically, is b/s about replicating thru training . And AB’s have not only Ireland to get over but then England and Boks, if they make the final and Boks have it easy by comparison, Japan then Wales or France - AB’s - Ireland England Boks on consecutive weekends that’s a big physical ask come final time, they will have had a more demanding tournament than any other team, if they win the Cup. And Ireland is gonna be tough because they’ll be clear in how they have to play and have the Farrell defence to make it hard for AB’s to assert their running. And Ireland will muscle up and compete for everything. They are smart, experienced players, talented throughout, adjust in game, what they must adapt and do, confident and able to bring it, for a game they have to be up for. So too will AB’s be up for it, so they should win because they have more ability. I want to see the AB’s start defensive based, looking to control and retain ball and not be very ambitious. They tend to play wide too early, too ambitious too early, too often. It only takes 15 minutes or so for their opponents to lose their initial energy and slow a little. The plan being not to go behind early, it gives teams more belief but once we are ahead, its very difficult for teams to get back at us. After so long after the hard Boks game, AB’s should not start attacking flat line, short quick passing V’s defence up in face, sweating on ball taker, AB’s will be fresh but not fully sharp, that will come later in the game if they play themselves in, along with opportunity later as Ireland tires. I don’t want to see another rusty start, easy penalties given up, poor decisions, dropped balls, over ambition, which AB’s are prone to early in games, and those early mistakes are more likely, given their ‘down time’ from hard Rugby and then Ireland are in the game much longer. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see exceptional in the air Ben Smith replace Sevu on the wing, to cover the back field with Barrett, field the Murray box kicks and have the rugby smarts positioning for the Sexton wipers plus Ireland will have to play with some width to use Stockdale and Larmar, so extra experience on defence with Smith, Sevu back in for England and Boks games.

2019-10-15T10:29:14+00:00

Derm

Roar Guru


First rule of battle: know thine enemy. Toner isn't in the squad.

2019-10-15T07:35:06+00:00

piru

Roar Rookie


Winning two successive games against them within the last 18 months should count for something too though It's also two successive games in the last thousand years so a matter of perspective

2019-10-15T06:34:33+00:00

taylorman

Roar Guru


Yes we’ll they won Chicago and thought two weeks later back at home in Dublin they would, well, just do it again. But like Perth to Eden park, they found things don’t tend to work like that and got thumped, literally. If Ireland win they’ll be the first to win two in a row since the Boks won, gulp, three, back in 2009.

2019-10-15T06:16:43+00:00

pm

Roar Rookie


yeah, just checked my facts - it was 2/3 and the first was in 2016, so it's two in the last three years. getting old, feels recent

2019-10-15T03:38:48+00:00

taylorman

Roar Guru


They didn't win two successive games though. No one has since 2009.

2019-10-14T14:04:16+00:00

Faith

Roar Rookie


Ireland will come our huffing and they will be good for 20 unfortunately it won't reflect on the scoreboard. They are going to try and slow the game down and play between set pieces but after first 20 ABs are going to run off Ireland off their feet. This game will be over in an hour. ABs defensive lineout against Toner will be a nightmare for Best. Two 7s will pinch the ball from Ireland again and again ... ABs scrum will wear out Ireland's tight 5 ... I can't wait.

2019-10-14T13:11:45+00:00

Colin

Guest


I see where you are going with that. Most teams don't knock on much these days. At scrum time, most teams collapse if they move backwards slightly, and reset. The scrum wheel is now an offense, so inconsistent driving (How can it not be?) is a penalty. I don't see how you can have a dominant scrum unless you can drive? The way things are going, the loose head is better used as a loose forwards done by Aus & NZ. I'm all for a specialist scrum ref coming on as required, and the option to call for a scrum off a penalty or free kick .

2019-10-14T05:21:51+00:00

coldturkey

Roar Rookie


I remember watching Gregor Townsend playing at fly half. My friends and I used to call him “Gregor the butcher” because of his ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when playing for Scotland. Admittedly he seems a better coach than he was a player but he is still only a shadow of Vern Cotter.

2019-10-14T05:20:27+00:00

MikeJ

Roar Rookie


The only way I can see Ireland beating the All Blacks is a red card in the first half for one of the ABs. I cannot see the All Blacks losing this match.

AUTHOR

2019-10-14T05:16:39+00:00

Sinclair Whitbourne

Roar Rookie


Agree that Japan could conceivably win - SA have a compressed defence, like Scotland and Ireland. Surely SA will have watched how Scotland got back into the game and play accordingly - if they get the chance. SA are a much better side than Scotland but... I hope to see an England v NZ semi, as a real clash of Titans. Whoever wins that, I'd like to see play SA. Just my take on the real heavyweights in this tournament. Just hoping a NZ v England game doesn't turn into a Holmes v Ali heavyweight clash; more a Thriller In Manilla, or a Rumble in the Jungle.

2019-10-14T03:22:20+00:00

Homer

Roar Rookie


Yeah - I wouldn't say no to that - except that Japan constantly surprises me and I'm wary of them.

2019-10-14T02:19:32+00:00

taylorman

Roar Guru


I think all SA need to do is imagine they are playing the AB's. Not hard to do when the coach, co-coach and captain are sitting in at the after match news conference. The Boks will have compared the humiliation Japan has imposed on the two NH sides to their own in 2015 and wont let them breathe. I think its one bridge too far for Japan. But if they win, so be it...I'll go 12 and over SA...

2019-10-14T00:00:09+00:00

Derm

Roar Guru


It’s about the current squad not the one in 1910.

2019-10-13T23:51:02+00:00

Timbo (L)

Roar Guru


My takeaway is that it should be a great contest to watch. Bookies will favor NZ but the Irish are still a genuine chance. Thought experiment: If Ireland win, what does that do for the final predictions? England SA Final? Unless of course Japan beat the Boks in the quarters - an unlikely outcome but not outside the realm of possibility.

2019-10-13T23:20:12+00:00

Homer

Roar Rookie


TMan - cards could be the difference for Japan against SA. And if SA don't bring their A game from the very start and if Japan can slot their kicks..... It'll be no walkover for whoever wins.

2019-10-13T22:56:49+00:00

Todd

Guest


And yet having won 2 of the last 3 games against NZ would it really be so shocking if Ireland win? What are the odds for Ireland sounds like could be good value for money for objective observers @KC "Not only have they displayed a better ability to vary their game plan they also have been timing their run better. " 1. A varied game plan can also lead to cluttered thinking and mistakes, while Ireland have almost completely removed mistakes from their game and have a bloodiminded clarity about what they are trying to achieve and are happy to get there in inches. 2. I would have agreed about timing the run better had the ABs played their last game. As it is I think they are going to find themselves short on combinations.

2019-10-13T22:46:38+00:00

taylorman

Roar Guru


Aha, he said they were better than a side that thrashed them. I mean, what would the Scot captain know. But you're right lets see them rip into the Boks as you say. :laughing:

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