It’s right to question South Africa’s (and Argentina’s) involvement in Super Rugby. But let’s remember: they contribute more than Australia.
The rainbow nation has more than pulled their load in this competition, especially recently.
Since 2015’s finals when the Stormers – the one team representing them – crashed out in in the quarters, they’ve punched well above their weight. The period between 2016 and 2018 saw a powerful Lions team play three consecutive grand finals, albeit without winning any.
Last year, every SA derby game was a coin-toss in what was the most even of the three conferences, largely contributing to the overall unpredictability of the tournament. It was the storyline we were looking for. Australia underperformed and New Zealand had an established pecking order with the Crusaders head and shoulders above the rest, and the Blues ultimately finished last.
As it went on, the Jaguares found their groove and snuck into the grand final. This year, the Sharks and Stormers have risen above the rest from their group, with the former topping the table. Neither side has lost more than one game. Did I mention the Springboks are world champions?
(Photo by Ashley Vlotman/Gallo Images/Getty Images)
This doesn’t justify their inclusion, however. Long travel times, costly airfare fees, lack of rivalry and midnight kickoffs all contribute to Australian rugby’s demise.
Players would rather spend time with family instead of flying halfway across the world – that stuff’s for international games. Midnight kickoffs are a tough sell in a country that is barely paying attention to games played in prime time and twilight. Rivalries between NSW and Durban are non-existent. The average bloke on the street probably wouldn’t know where Durban or Pretoria are.
There’s no doubt an Australia-only competition would be barren. A Trans-Tasman competition would take some getting used to. Playing the best players from three different countries in dress rehearsals for the Rugby Championship is great for Australia, NZ, SA and Argentina’s rugby players. But it’s not worth it.
The A-League could expand to include teams from football powerhouses like France and Brazil. A-League players would improve, no doubt. But the idea is ludicrous, and would be an incredibly stupid move.
We’re in a situation with SANZAAR where the various national unions are contracted to this ridiculous tournament, and trying to get out of it means they’d lose a lot of clout globally.
The element of high-level opposition will be hard to let go of. But let’s not put Test rugby on such a pedestal that domestic rugby gets compromised, like we’ve done so far.
If we want people to tune in week in, week out – and not just for the odd Wallabies game – RA needs to make some sacrifices sooner rather than later.
JD Kiwi
Roar Rookie
Both of those teams promptly fell off the edge of the cliff, the success was flash in the pan, unsustainable. The success of 1979-2003 was sustained.
In brief
Guest
In 2014 we won super rugby with 5 teams, in 2015 we were runners up at RWC with 5 teams. People need to take off the Rose coloured glasses - shrinking to 3 teams is not the answer.
Muglair
Roar Rookie
I did see it KFTD, you just hit a nerve, that's all. :stoked: I just recorded my thoughts for posterity because generally people have short memories. That helps rugby administrators (amongst others) because it allows them to make the same mistakes every five years or so, and the average punter forgives them. At that stage Queensland were still going OK, but it only lasted another year or so. I think I described the possibility that they would remain successful and profitable once they started losing as the sporting equivalent of "splitting the atom".
K.F.T.D.
Roar Rookie
I replied , its above, I must not have hit the reply button.
K.F.T.D.
Roar Rookie
This was supposed to be a reply to below comment
K.F.T.D.
Roar Rookie
Thanks Muglair. 2011 was a perfect storm for the Reds - Quade , Ioane, Horwill,McKenzie, 53,000 fans. Carmichael and co’s heads probably got as big as those stupid rubber bigheaded Mascots representing players running around the ground, some guy shouting out over the microphone “We are Red” grrrrr . It became a circus. But the worst thing besides continually losing was how they started to treat the rusted on diehards, with arrogant aggressive ticketing . I found myself flung to the highest near the try line seats with children in front waving big placards, hands , whatever . I couldn’t see the game at all . I thought I might as well stay home so I could see the game. So I did, like a lot of people. I remember at a game once someone saying who was not familiar with rugby , how quiet the fans were - to which came a reply - that is because everyone here is so knowledgeable about the game , they are watching with intensity! People would jump up a cheer at any great try though, we came to watch the rugby and our team. QR management got separated from fans and clubs before the ARU distanced themselves from clubs and therefore fans. Thanks again?
Muglair
Roar Rookie
Yes, but don't forget they were hailed as geniuses at the time. Queensland had been bankrupt and now they were turned around with match attendances, sponsorship and membership turning around. The ARU, sensibly I thought, floated the idea of sharing back office resources. Not much has changed there though, their bright idea was that Queensland would provide the administration backbone due to their sensational track record. Unsurprisingly the other states rejected this out of hand. I wrote to the ARU pointing out that this was a good strategy which would save duplicated services and probably lift back office standards in membership and sponsorship management etc. It needed to be done independently to secure support and also that it was difficult to judge whether Queensland's success was due to the 2011 SR winning season or fantastic management. They wrote back acknowledging the problem but saying that they did not have the resources to address the problem of duplicated services, or words to that effect. The NRL also invested time and resources into a shared services structure but the clubs would not wear it. The costs and waste there must be monumental although apparently HO is the problem. The answer probably lies in self interest, and who is trying to impress who.
K.F.T.D.
Roar Rookie
Carmichael and co were terrible.
Winnie the Pooh (Emperor of China)
Guest
We should split Australian rugby. Those who want to stay with Sanzaar and those that want to go it local.
Terminator
Roar Rookie
:sick: Joe, A better playoff format is to select the 2 top teams from each conference (6 teams) and then do a random draw (just like Champions Cup and RWC) and place them in 2 pools of 3 teams with one team from each conference per Pool (ie a random draw determines which NZ team is in Pool A and the other in Pool B, then same for SA and AUS qualifiers). Then each of the 3 teams in Pool A play the other 2 teams from Pool A (one home game and one away game determined by a random draw), very similar to Champions Cup. Then the 2 Pool Winners play in the Grand Final hosted by the team with most points (or wins whatever the decided tiebreaker is) just as the Champions Cup is. The playoffs are 3 consecutive weekends and therefore can be played in 14 days from opening weekend to grand final. Random Draws add an element of excitement and is fair (no team is mathematically advantaged). Ultimately the best team will win its 3 playoff games. I strongly believe in a post-Covid world, a Champions Cup format for each of NZ, SA, and AUS Domestic Competion Winners & 2nd place finishers is the only viable format for Super Rugby.
Muglair
Roar Rookie
True At work. I still think that what is good for Australian Rugby is having four strong functioning tiers, integrated and building on each other; Wallabies, SR, NRC and clubs. SR has flaws and each country complains about them from time to time. Possibly it should have evolved further and faster in 25 years than it has, but it is what we have got. SR is not working for Australia and it is probably a millstone around our necks right now. Most of the problems though, I think, are of our own making or omission. Walking away from constant international competition at SR level will create real problems at the next level up. If it cannot be fixed there will be no professional rugby and the best players go overseas. That is a manageable problem, not an optimal solution.
:laughing: :laughing:
Muglair
Roar Rookie
Handle it? I can do it all day! RA provides so much material that I just needed a mental break. Just when I was starting to relax and thinking maybe things were not that bad and those dreadful Jappies could be the problem and not the RA Board ... along comes Corne. :unhappy:
Micko
Roar Rookie
Yep, it's a weird pseudo-provincial comp that doesn't really have an identity because it was disingenuous from the start( ACT Brumbies? Had to raid NSW & Qld for playing stock from the start) A proper free market with drafts, trades, recruits etc and international movement of players based around a club/franchise league would've been successful. The only way a provincial style comp would've been successful long term is as a champions league style 4-5 week tournament at the end of domestic leagues. Now it's just boring and uninspiring unless you're a rugby diehard.
The Neutral View From Sweden
Roar Guru
Interesting that you automatically mention the Wallabies when we are talking Super Rugby. That is a great observation of what is wrong with SR at the bone; it is too much och trial tournament for Test rugby.
The Neutral View From Sweden
Roar Guru
Well, if you can't handle bagging of OZ rugby, the Roar is most def the wrong place for you :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
The Neutral View From Sweden
Roar Guru
This is one of the weirdest aspects of this, SA is the big money spinner in SANZAAR, yet that seems to be ignored completely when these things are discussed. This is also one thing I always have in mind when thinking about a possible move north for SARU; they bring real money to the table.
Muglair
Roar Rookie
I can only speak for the Waratahs. I have probably been a season ticket holder for probably 70% of the time I was in Sydney. They have made no attempt to engage the hearts and minds of supporters. We are Waratah 'members' but is nothing like being a member of a rugby club. That is the key to membership and crowd support. I am not sure what happens in Queensland. They are a parochial lot and they sure came out in numbers around the 2011 season. QRU administration managed to capture the credit at that time but once they started losing it turned out Carmichael (?) was an emperor without clothes. At least that is something, the Waratahs lost crowd support when they started losing ugly. The growing momentum in 2013 and 2014 with aggressive attacking rugby did not make much of a difference, I suspect around 3000 average and they have since disappeared with about another 5000 to boot. The Brumbies seemed to get it right for a long time but that is history too. A supporter suggested the ground relocation was a problem there. The best game to watch; Friday night NZ derbies. Saturday night NZ derbies second. What is best. RA need to do the hard yards on the ground now to find out. Talking to people, not sending out surveys designed and interpreted by consultants. Which would be my guess as to how they do things.
Jacko
Guest
its just so strange tho isnt it. I love super rugby...I watch a lot of games "out of my time zone" and I will watch the Cheifs at any time they play...Saying the "average rugby fan"wont watch the brumbies v Lions game is soooooo true...The average brumbies fan will tho....SR can work...NZ and SA prove it every year and if you want facts SR has produced all but 1 WC winning nation since its inception. So clearly its better than the NH comps are at producing winning sides....Aus is badly run...Blame that not everything else
Jacko
Guest
Arnt we going back to round robin next year? Why all the carryon about the conference system ruining rugby when it has been moved on?