LeBron James and Michael Jordan fanboys have been flocking to the internet after the former’s fourth championship added a new twist to the NBA GOAT debate.
The fervour isn’t surprising given society’s increasing polarisation and the economics of online media perpetuates this polarisation by creating a bias towards inflammatory content that boosts page views.
Which of the following headlines do you think would get more views? ‘Game 5 proved that LeChoke will never be Jordan’ or ‘The Lakers lost in Game 5 despite LeBron’s historic performance’.
Since basketball is a team sport, the only relevant question when talking about the greatness of a player is whether or not they showed up for their team on the big stage. For example, contrast LeBron James and James Harden. Both players lost to a superior Warriors team in the 2017 and 2018 playoffs, but LeBron lost despite putting up historic numbers, while Harden consistently underwhelmed in pivotal games – this is why LeBron is considered an all-time great, while Harden is considered an all-time scorer.
The ridiculous expectations placed on LeBron were made clear after Game 5 of the finals, where a historic performance was overshadowed by his late-game decision to pass to a wide-open Danny Green rather than attempt to shoot through a triple team.
“Michael would have attempted the shot,” said the Jordan pundits, who seemingly forgot the John Paxson and Steve Kerr game winners arising from Jordan double teams that secured two of his championships.
(Image: Flickr/Jason H Smith CC-BY-2.0)
Although the expectations on LeBron may be unreasonable, there’s an argument to be made that he wouldn’t be playing at such a high level this late in his career without them. LeBron doesn’t appear to have the maniacal obsession with winning that Jordan had, so we should give thanks to Skip Bayless because LeBron may have retired by now if he didn’t feel his legacy was being questioned every day.
The truth is rarely found at extremes, which is why fans of specific players tend to be insufferable. You don’t have to choose between MJ or LeBron or Kobe Bryant or whichever player you think the greatest is – they are all incredible players with remarkable careers that we were lucky to witness.
You can think MJ is better than LeBron or vice versa, the same way you can think music was better in the 1980s than today, but don’t get worked up if someone disagrees with you.
astro
Roar Rookie
I'm not so sure about this...Yes, the game was 'tougher' as it used to have power forwards and big centers who were more physical, but the game is more athletic these days. The 'pace' of NBA games is greater than that of Jordan's years, so while players don't get hard fouled as much, they are tested more in terms of endurance and speed. As far as free throws go, the perception doesn't match the reality...in the context of this 'debate', MJ averaged 8.2 FTs per game and LBJ averages 8.0 FTs per game for their respective careers, so the idea that Lebron just strolls into the lane and gets a call isn't correct...
Three Step Euro Pod
Roar Rookie
Looking forward to reading it mate!
Bell31
Roar Rookie
Nice article - I've just submitted an article on MJ vs Le Bron as the GOAT, so look forward to the reaction to that! I agree that the 'MJ would've taken that shot' criticism of Le Bron was completely OTT --- Le Bron played that almost perfectly --- Green was pretty well wide open for the 3, and it's not like MJ didn't pass to others (eg, Steve Kerr) at critical moments in the Finals. In addition, if Morris doesn't mess up the pass after his rebound, it might not even be a discussion.
Dave
Roar Rookie
The early 2000s for me was brilliant. So much talent was in the league back then
Pete
Guest
Shane heal or Andrew gaze is the real goat debate
Rob
Guest
You could just as easily say that some of the great sides from 20-30 years ago would also struggle with the way the game is played today as well though. Comparing eras is just so pointless IMO. There is no way to prove which sides would of thrived or struggled in different eras so I don't see why we should even bother trying.
Three Step Euro Pod
Roar Rookie
And they were doing it in Converse All Stars! Give Wilt some Jordans and he'd be jumping over the backboard :laughing:
JGK
Roar Guru
Who knows if MJ would have thrived in today’s game. I do! But your point is fair - you can only play in your own time. But that then is the very purpose of these discussions, to work out who was the better player when they haven't gone head to head.
Dave
Roar Rookie
For all interested in reading it-https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/30070633/lebron-james-vs-michael-jordan-why-goat-debate-different-now
Dave
Roar Rookie
In my opinion, watching both, MJ is better. However, you can make an argument for both. Who knows if MJ would have thrived in today’s game. Playing in the same era results in fewer variables and it would be easier to compare for who owns the title as the GOAT.
CJ
Guest
If you went to a girls house 10 times and smashed 4 times, but you’re buddy when 6 and smashed 6, who’s the GOAT? :laughing: :stoked:
JGK
Roar Guru
If they played in the same era then this wouldn’t be a conversation. Because MJ was better?
Three Step Euro Pod
Roar Rookie
Zach Lowe may be the GOAT of sensible basketball analysis
josh
Roar Rookie
I agree it silly. I can understand, how Jordan is people’s favourite player. At the time he was a, “wow, what is this guy doing/capable of?” I get it. But like the music analogy, it’s what you grew up on. I got into basketball, thanks to Inside NBA (5, foour, threee, two, 1…) on channel 10 on Saturday mornings in the early 90s. So I got the tailend of Jordan’s career, but the start of Shaq’s career. I loved Shaq, Shaun Kemp. I didn’t follow it for a while, those early 2000s NBA are a bit urgh. What got me back a rookie James and his chasedown blocks. I’m right back in. I’ll echo a point that’s a common theme here. The players often listed as the GOATS are all different positions. They can all get a gig.
Davico
Roar Pro
I think bigger factors affecting the legacy of the older players is the fact there was no 3 point line and no 24 sec shot clock. Imagine how many points some of these players might have had in todays game? Wilt scored 100 in a game with no shot clock! Imagine how many he would of scored if the other team had not tried to slow the game down when they had the ball? Scary! What would West's ppg average have been considering he was a sharp shooter? Would the Big O have averaged 20/20/20 in a season in a sped up game with a 3 point line? It's why the era comparisons are pointless!
Davico
Roar Pro
There is an argument that he does not lose those finals if there is a 3 point line and he averages 50! He was pretty much Steph 50 years too early! Again that is the problem with comparing the eras.
Davico
Roar Pro
If LeBron was so good why has he lost 6 Finals? How come LeBron could not take the Cav's to the playoff's in his rookie season whereas Jordan did? Why did LeBron have to move teams to win his first title by joining up with 2 other All-NBA players? See what I did there???? Anyone can be negative and pick holes in literally anyones career! (Maybe, not Bill Russell's, but I never saw him play!) Why does it matter so much? Why do LeBron fans crave the coronation so much? There are argument's to be had that neither are the GOAT! Just enjoy watching one of the best that ever did it!
josh
Roar Rookie
I think the media cycle now, doesn't help. There are whole industries and shows that need to create a narrative; and we're feeding the beast. I mean Jerry West lost 8, EIGHT! finals series. But he's the logo for the league? Imagine the response now. It'd get shouted down by everyone on Twitter, and the talking heads on ESPN and forums like this.
Dave
Roar Rookie
Saw a great article by ESPN's Lowe which talks about this although it is foolish to compare eras. The game has changed considerably. If they played in the same era then this wouldn't be a conversation.
josh
Roar Rookie
If Jordan was so good why'd he lose in the 1st round 3 times? This is why the discussion is pointless. Jordan got showed up plenty of times and was exiting the playoffs before the finals; but that's fine because when did it was 6-0. It's like having a favorite movie, but only really liking the 1st act (rookie year) and the 3rd act (The Finals). While ignoring the 2nd act (losing) and post credits scene (Washington).