What. The. Fasolo.
That’s the PG version of the thoughts from almost every supporter of the Collingwood Football Club at the moment. Like nearly all Pies fans, I am absolutely fuming about what transpired at the end of the trade period.
The frustration levels are at an all-time high and I’m going to tell you a bit more about why myself and many other feel this way. However, I will also quickly touch on a few ways in what can make this disastrous day a distant memory.
But first, let’s start with a snapshot of our trade period.
Out: Adam Treloar, Jaidyn Stephenson, Tom Phillips, Atu Bosenavulagi, Pick 26, Pick 33, Pick 39, Pick 42.
In: Pick 14, Pick 65, Pick 70, future second-round pick.
Okay, I was nearly sick on myself after writing that…
If someone had’ve told me at the start of this year that we were trading Treloar and we’d get Pick 14, 65, 70 and a future second-round pick I would’ve almost said that’s unders for a player of his calibre.
But no, we’ve also chucked in Stephenson, Phillips, Bosenavulagi and four more relatively high draft picks.
(Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)
We’ve been absolutely fleeced. It’s a disgrace.
Obviously, every club was aware to our salary cap struggles so we were never going to get full value for the players we were dealing, but it’s still so bloody infuriating.
So, let’s break down the players we’ve dealt and why I’m annoyed about our trades and the way they were executed.
Adam Treloar
This is a tough one.
Treloar is a good player, sometimes a really good player, maybe a great player.
At his best, Treloar can rack up disposals, break lines with extreme pace and kick some awesome goals. He has had some amazing games for the Pies.
However, his disposal has been frustrating for quite a while now. There’s no use getting heaps of the pill if you’re going to turn it over half the time.
It also felt like this season he was playing as more of an inside midfielder and he often didn’t have the strength to break tackles. Plus, he has had quite a bit of trouble with his body over the journey.
There have also been reports that he was hard to coach and didn’t get along with some players but the jury’s still out on that one.
From my perspective he seemed like a very dedicated clubman who was always proud to be in the black and white.
But for the reasons I mentioned above – ball use, midfield role, health – if you’re looking to trade someone to free up a bit of cap space, fair choice.
It’s devastating to see any player go, especially someone with as much ability and passion as Treloar, but it’s a brutal business and sometimes you have to cut a few loose.
But what aggravates so many supporters is the way it was handled.
The information coming out through the media made Collingwood look like the most heartless people in Australia.
First, they were worried about his family, then they were worried about his ability to fit in at the club until it eventually evolved to the point where he was told he wasn’t wanted at all.
There were so many comments that made the club look very cruel, but it could’ve been fixed in one simple way: being honest, with Treloar and the fans.
We all know the major concern was about Treloar’s salary and the tightening cap.
Obviously, it would’ve been extremely detrimental to his trade value if he was told he was needed to relieve cap space, but everyone knew that anyway and the return we received reflected that.
If Collingwood had’ve come out after the period ended and said “We absolutely love Adam and he’s been great for our club, but we really needed to relieve some cap space” things would’ve been so much better.
It might’ve been an initial shock for supporters and Ned Guy would’ve had egg on his face but ultimately it would’ve been a better look for the club.
All the members want is for the club to be transparent with what’s happening and unfortunately transparency is the last thing happening at the Holden Centre.
The whole Treloar media fiasco wouldn’t have ever started if they were honest with him from the start. Instead they went down a conniving and heartless path.
(Photo by Adam Trafford/AFL Media/Getty Images)
That’s definitely not great for current players and potential recruits to see…
The loss of Treloar is pretty saddening but I’m not absolutely devastated. If we needed to relieve cap space, so be it, it’s acceptable to ship him off. Most Collingwood supporters are okay with that, but again, it’s the way in which it was handled that has frustrated so many.
But it’s the following trade that really got my blood boiling.
Jaidyn Stephenson
Are you actually kidding me?
You cannot be serious.
You draft a bloke with Pick 6, he wins the Rising Star but once he gets in a bit of trouble and has one bad year, you give him away for nothing.
Some people might forget that in 2018, Stephenson was the spark plug for our season. We lost the first two games, and everyone thought it was going to be another crap year for the Maggies.
Then we barely beat a bad Carlton side, and nobody was really convinced we were going to be a flag threat, but then something special happened.
The bloke we just gave away for next to nothing kicked five goals and we absolutely smashed the runners up from the previous year.
From then on, our X-factor was Stephenson.
He looked like the fastest player in the AFL and his goal sense was awesome.
I thought that he was the next big thing at Collingwood – I even considered getting his number on my jumper, I grew out of doing that when I was about ten though.
He started off 2019 in pretty good form and then the betting scandal hit. I won’t get into that, he was ridiculously dumb, but I reckon the penalty was pretty harsh. Maybe I’m just a biased Collingwood supporter though.
He returned for the 2019 finals series and had a pretty decent game first up – 18 disposals, one goal and two goal assists. Then he played just as well the next week, with 16 disposals and two goals.
So, at that stage myself and many Pies fans were still very bullish about his future.
(Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)
As we all know he had some struggles this year and there were certainly some aspects of his game that were pretty disappointing, but he still played some good games, kicked some great goals and he’s 21 years old!
Are you kidding me? You just give up on a young player when he has one bad season?!
It was a tough year for a lot of footballers in the hub, so I’d say it’s definitely forgivable for him to be a bit off. Plus, he had glandular fever in the new year, which caused a severely interrupted pre-season.
That’s just a few major reasons why getting rid of him is so bloody stupid.
And don’t give me the disciplinary issues spiel either. If Collingwood got rid of players with disciplinary issues in the past, we probably wouldn’t have won a flag since 1958. Everybody’s young and dumb sometimes, he’ll get better.
And if his salary is the main issue – which it probably is – then it’s even more stupid. I’d trade Josh Thomas (28), Rupert Wills (27) and Brayden Sier (22) all before Stephenson. Yes, I mean all three of them instead of him. Surely their combined salary is just as much as Stephenson’s.
And much like Treloar, the way it’s played out is so disheartening.
To hear him say he wanted to stay makes it even more heartbreaking. What happened to the whole “Collingwood is now a loving and happy club” thing? That certainly has gone out the window, at least from an outsider’s perspective.
It’s an ugly situation.
At his best, there’s not many players like Stephenson, it’s going to be hard to find someone like him again. And I’ll just quickly mention the bloke coming to Arden Street with him.
Atu Bosenavulagi
I’ll be honest, I don’t pay close attention to the twos, so I don’t know how he went there this year, but that debut senior game he played against Geelong this year was astounding.
He looked quick and clean and managed to get his hands on the ball quite a bit.
So, to throw him – a 20-year-old – in as the steak knives seems so weird.
Maybe he didn’t perform like they were hoping in the reserves games this year but surely give him one more crack at it?
It was another baffling decision.
Tom Phillips
This is the icing on the Collingwood stupidity cake.
When Phillips first started at Collingwood, I had my doubts, but after Nathan Buckley’s persistence he started to turn into a pretty decent player.
Some in the media even had him as an All Australian smokey in 2018 and 2019.
His ball use improved, and he started to be a bit of a barometer for the Pies. When he was on, we were usually playing pretty well.
Like Treloar, he seems like someone who loves the club and maybe unlike Treloar he seemed to fit in really well and be a bit of a charismatic personality with a positive influence.
But he did frustrate me at times this year, especially against Brisbane where three of his turnovers directly resulted in goals. And Josh Daicos has improved immensely and has now pushed him off the wing into a half-forward role that he struggles to play.
So, with his decent contract and his declining usefulness in the side, trading Tom Phillips is unfortunate. But like Treloar, it was needed.
But what myself and many other Pies fans are irritated by is the return we got on the trade. Pick 65. You’re joking.
I know we’re desperate to offload cash but surely you can get something a little bit better than that for a bloke who has been playing pretty decent footy for three to four years now.
We’re getting laughed at by other supporters.
And a lot of the blame is resting with this bloke.
(Photo by Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images)
Good luck finding a Collingwood supporter who has a nice thing to say about Ned Guy at the moment. He is public enemy number 1.
To say he’s royally stuffed this up is an understatement. There’s been some serious mismanagement in terms of list and salary, and he is rightfully the pin-up boy for the trade period disaster.
There are definitely others to blame but unfortunately for Guy he’s going to receive most of the wrath from the black and white army.
When I heard he was going on radio and TV after the period ended I gained a bit of respect for him – that’s tough to do.
But that respect was completely lost when I heard his answers.
Maybe it was a directive from the higher-ups but to get on there and try and spin this into a positive light and say we’re replenishing through the draft is utterly ridiculous.
I know there’s quite a few Collingwood nuffies but how stupid do you think we are?
You don’t just trade four decent players, four picks, get pick 14 back and try to say we’re going to the draft to improve our list.
No, no, no.
If I hadn’t have been paying attention to the US election I would’ve said what Ned Guy said is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever heard.
No way, no how, was this Collingwood trying to get better through the draft.
Everyone knew it was a salary cap dump, why else would other teams get our players for such a bargain?
And even if we were honestly trying to get better through the draft, how stupid is that?
Some of our best players – Scott Pendlebury and Steele Sidebottom – aren’t getting any younger. We need to win now.
(Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images)
Plus, many others – including myself – would argue we’ve actually ended up with a worse bunch of picks in the draft than what we had.
Collingwood fans would’ve been able to stomach this a lot better if Ned Guy came out and said this: “Sorry players, sorry fans but unfortunately we’ve got ourselves into a position where we can’t afford to keep all of our players, so we need to offload a few to other clubs. Young players have improved and with improvement comes higher salaries, so unfortunately there’s a few that must go.”
I understand he couldn’t say anything about our cap while negotiating deals, but afterwards full transparency would’ve been appreciated.
The other issues with player contracts are for an article or ten another day but I really hope I never write something like this again.
How can it all be forgiven? While I remain incredibly angry, I do admit there are ways where this can all be forgiven.
The first is simple: win the flag next year.
It’s probably not going to happen but if it miraculously does, this disaster will all of a sudden look like the smartest day in Collingwood history.
If we can somehow win one in the next few years obviously it will all be forgiven.
If the players we got rid of fail to fire at their new clubs, it’ll sting a bit less and if the players we draft turn into guns then yeah, we’ll be happy.
There’s a high chance things can go seriously pear-shaped and the infamy of this trade period will live on for decades but I’m not giving up yet.
If flags were won in the trade period, we’d have the wooden spoon, but luckily, they’re not.
I hope the club knows what they’re doing.
I genuinely wish Treloar, Stephenson, Bosenavulagi and Phillips all the best at their new clubs, it’s very sad to see you all go.
To the Pies players – please fire up next season, and to the Pies players on really good money – you better really fire up.
Go Pies.
Floreat Pica.
P.S. At least everyone knows we’re not cheating the salary cap like Carlton did.
Sam Watson
Roar Rookie
The point I was trying to make is that Carlton’s salary cap breach was so significant there’s a Wikipedia page about it. No other AFL club has that ????????
Cracka
Roar Rookie
Yeah but did you read it? Your comments directed at me made me think you didn't understand the points I made. Your dig at Carlton was faculty wrong and I was giving you an examples of the many clubs that have cheated the cap. If your going to write an article and not make it fiction then you have to expect people to point out the wrongs.
Sam Watson
Roar Rookie
Did I read the article? I wrote the thing mate.
Noiret
Roar Rookie
I've just been running thru the numbers in my head. I think that pick 14 & the Bulldogs 2021 2nd round pick is a fair trade for picks 26, 33 & 42 - 2 2nd round picks & 1 early 3rd round pick. Considering points, the Bulldogs received 1687 points, & Collingwood received 2109 points if the Bulldogs win the wooden spoon and 1614 points if the Bulldogs win the premiership. If the Bulldogs finish in the top 4, Collingwood receives less points back than they gave away, without considering the issue of Adam Treloar. Compare the effect of the swap versus no swap- Bid on Reef McInnes at 19 with the swap vs no swap. Collingwood have gained pick 14, but lost picks 34, 42, 65 & 70 and be 630 points in deficit for next year. (The 759 points to match would have cost them pick 26, and decrease 33 by 30 points reducing it to 34.) Their first round pick next year will be seriously damaged, pick 1 would be reduced to pick 2, pick 5 to pick 13, pick 10 to pick 25 and pick 18 to pick 45. So they gain 1 pick 14, and probably a late 2nd round pick next year and lose picks 34, 42, 65, 70, and push next years 1st round pick out substantially. If there were a bid on Reef McInnes at 22 with the swap vs no swap. Collingwood have gained pick 14, but lost picks 33, 42, 65 & 70 and be 527 points in deficit for next year. (The 656 points to match would have cost them pick 26, but pick 33 by will remain pick 33.) Their 2nd round pick next year will be seriously damaged, pick 19 would be reduced to pick 41, pick 25 to pick 54, pick 30 to pick 64 and pick 36 to the end of the draft. It's a really, really bad deal for Collingwood.
Noiret
Roar Rookie
Mark, I'm not a Collingwood supporter but neither Collingwood supporters or non-supporters believe you. Firstly, your list is now down to 30 players. If you're lucky, you'll get good picks at 14 & 16 before another club makes a bid on Reef McInnes, so you'll get 3 quality players, but be in point deficit for next year. You'll still have 5 vacancies on your list to be filled up at the bottom of the draft or by signing players delisted by other clubs. It makes no sense to trade out quality players and leave vacancies on your list, or fill them with pick 88 and/or other's discards, unless there's a big problem with the salary cap. Secondly, whilst we don't know what precise details have been done, we can make an intelligent guess. Collingwood had a contractual obligation to Adam Treloar for $900,000/a. It was reported that the Bulldogs value him at $600,000/a which would mean Collingwood may still be on the hook for $300,000/a. Now if Collingwood had traded him to the bulldogs on that basis, he would have been worth a first round pick, whereas swapping pick 14 (1161 points) for picks 26, 33, and 42 (1687 points) markedly favours the Bulldogs, enabling them to grab Jamarra Ugle-Hagan without going substantially into deficit. It's clear the Bulldogs knew you were desperate and dictated terms. So I assume what happened is that the Bulldogs had some cap space, and agreed to pay maybe $700,000/a providing they received him for a tin of beans. I imagine something similar happened with Stephenson and Phillips. So Collingwood have tipped out 4 players, to be replaced by picks at the bottom of the draft, or by offering a 2nd chance to delisted players. You and the rest of the Collingwood hierarchy are simply digging a bigger and bigger hole. Stop bullshitting. We all know you monumentally screwed up the salary cap.
Spanner
Roar Rookie
You won't make the finals Jed - a fish rots from the head, down. Huge changes required.
George Apps
Roar Rookie
Read this - "I am writing to you today to further explain our 2020 AFL trade period decisions. Our club’s approach to the trade period has caused angst for a number of our members and fans. I understand this reaction, as not all that we are attempting to do has been obvious or well explained. We will continue to communicate with you, our members, in a number of ways to provide information and the opportunity for you to ask questions. One of these opportunities will be provided through our annual Member Forum. As you know we conduct this event each year and this year’s forum will occur at some stage after the AFL Draft. The timing is not confirmed as we are looking for a COVID safe way to hold the meeting. Our hope is that we can conduct this meeting in person at the Holden Centre. If this is not possible, we will conduct the forum online. All of our key people will be in attendance to provide information and answer our member’s questions. Before I delve into the detail of the trade period, I’d like to take a moment to personally thank Adam Treloar, Tom Phillips, Jaidyn Stephenson and Atu Bosenavulagi for their contribution to our club. I wish them the very best for the future. They have each made a very real contribution to our club. Competing in an elite sport presents a unique challenge for clubs; the pursuit of excellence is rightly demanded by members, fans, coaches and the like, but the special relationships formed between players and fans is also something to be valued. This makes the departure of any player a difficult and emotional one – whether through trade, delisting, or retirement. We understandthis acutely. It happens every year. Many members are wanting to understand the strategy behind our various trade decisions. We are all proud of the regeneration of the team that has seen us play AFL finals in each of the last three years. As you know we made a Grand Final appearance in 2018, lost in a Preliminary Final in 2019 and this year bowed out in the Semi Finals. We believed that we could stay in and around the mark for some time but knew that to maximise our opportunity to win the premiership and build a sustainable future really difficult decisions were required. Multiple factors played into our decision to release the four players. Salary cap pressure was certainly a key part of the decision. This is common for teams in premiership contention and even for some who are not. Financial sacrifices were made to keep the list together but this could not be the ongoing solution. With a further reduction every club’s salary cap about to come due to the impacts due to COVID, this situation was going to be exacerbated. Another was the anticipated evolution of the team. We expect to improve from within. Our program has done a wonderful job in developing a number of exciting and talented young players ready to assume more control of the team: Quaynor, Daicos, Sier, Kelly, Keane and Cal and Tyler Brown to name a few. These players have shown much promise over recent seasons, and we are very much looking forward to seeing each of them become regular features in our best 22. Being realistic about the future was also something we felt was required.Despite the fantastic Elimination Final win only a few weeks ago in Perth, we fell well short in our Semi-Final against the Cats the following week. The unflattering result was not a reflection of our season but it could not be ignored, either. As Collingwood GM of Football, Geoff Walsh, said a short time later: “We were a fair way off in the last game of 2020.That shows us we need to get better and improve our list. The best way to improve your list is via the draft”. Of course, the other method is via trading and free agency. To be blunt, we found ourselves in a bind: we were without realistic access to the free agency market with our salary cap being at its limit. We have had quality players expressing interest in coming to our club, interest we could not realistically pursue due to our cap limitations. This could not continue and so some tough and, frankly, painful decisions had to be made. As List Manager Ned Guy has suggested, the outcome of the 2020 trade period is far from the end of our quest for immediate improvement and we are confident of taking an even stronger hand than we currently have to next month’s AFL national draft. We are extremely excited by the prospect of bringing two first round draftees to Collingwood in 2021, something we have not done since drafting Jordan De Goey and Darcy Moore in the top 10 of the 2014 draft. Because of the talent at the top end of this year’s draft, this is one our recruiting team want to be in. Further, with the salary cap relief created, we can aggressively attack the free agency market from next year on if we so wish. All that being said, I am aware that many members will still hold a different perspective. We not only respect this - we value it. Within any high-performance environment it’s vital to be challenged, and it’s equally as important for our members to be heard. We know that the feedback being directed to the club comes from a place of great passion and care, not only for the club as a whole but for our players as well. As Ned and Geoff have noted, the club has a certain level of responsibility to players and their management when discussing specifics with regards to potential trades, but it’s our responsibility to you – our members – that we explore ways in which we can take action based on your feedback. We do not shy away from the responsibility that comes with these decisions. Ned, Geoff and other members of the recruiting and list management team made the tough calls for the right reasons and in the very best interest of our team and club. I absolutely respect their judgement and have the utmost confidence in their ability to reshape our list, open up new possibilities for growth and build off the plan that has been established. We are working across every area of our club and football department to get better and as such, we all await the start of the 2021 season with much anticipation. As stated at the opening, we will continue to communicate with you as we lead into the national draft and beyond, as we build towards round one. Your support is greatly valued." Kind regards, Mark Anderson
Cracka
Roar Rookie
The situation could only get worst if those traded out of the club play outstanding footy next season.
Cracka
Roar Rookie
I believe he was having a dig at Carlton in the first place, you did read the article, right? Just in case you missed it this is what was said. Go Pies. Floreat Pica. P.S. At least everyone knows we’re not cheating the salary cap like Carlton did. So the point here was to show that Collingwood had cheated the cap and yes Carlton has breached the salary cap before.
Sam Watson
Roar Rookie
Yeah there’s so many things that I left out mate. Just shows how bad the situation is
Sam Watson
Roar Rookie
No Wikipedia pages about salary cap breaches for any other clubs mate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Football_Club_salary_cap_breach
Sam Watson
Roar Rookie
Hmmm write over 2000 words criticising them and you think I’m trying to deflect? ???? Light humour mate ????????
Jack
Roar Rookie
Very good read. In particular the points you make about "cruel" handling of Treloar and Stevenson. In relation to Treloar think Collingwood even crossed work place legal rules and should have case to answer. Neg Guy interview was a train wreck. One thing that was skipped over in the article is the phone conversation between Buckley and Treloar. It appears Buckley straight up lied initially about that call taking place.
George Apps
Roar Rookie
I’m looking for some advice from you guys. Thinking about switching allegiance from Collingwood to another Victorian based club, maybe Geelong, St Kilda or the Dogs, being the only ones that don’t stink as far as being good man managers.
Charlie Keegan
Roar Guru
2 premierships? Really? Wow I didn’t know that bahahahahaha.
jed
Guest
Too true and lets through in the Malthouse piasco! Sheeeeze and H'B The point about the long winter trip away being a test for some is yet to trickle out - and may never. However lets think that enough heads together do know what their doing and the changes are designed to create the very best results. Lets start with dear old Ads. Perhaps the ruck / midfield clearances breakdown is the core. Two points: Gruns is surely the most backed in entity and Ads is cut ) - speaks to me. This is clouded somewhat as the fabulous late 2018 -2019 Pies relentless attacking game plan (emanating from rucks and stoppages) - just mysteriously dried up and seeming replaced with defensive strategies but the link with whose left in vs whose not is a sign. The next possible level if merit in the whole recent trade thing surely speaks volumes to 'dicipline' to one and all - Jayden's axing not a likely spur of the moment reaction. Whose doesn't know his superb ability and longer term potential? They know. Yet still ur wasn't enough to make the cut. And lets not forget who didn't but cut have been cut. All magnificent! So the message seem loud and clear. The standard at Pieland is high. Yes I hear the roar - oh you better be right - and proof will only be a Granny So stay positive and good luck to all the boys inside the tent - go pies!
Mooty
Roar Rookie
Agree wholeheartedly chuck, except I would describe it more as a disposal sale rather than a trade period. By the way, the Holden Centre I assume is named after the ex car company, is this an indication of where Collingwood are heading, to rack and ruins
Pumping Dougie
Roar Guru
Well said Sam. Agree with everything you said. Honesty to players and members from the start about the pickle they've got themselves into, would have been a much smarter and sensible approach. Followed by axing of those responsible (multiple people). Buckley was drawn into it because nobody had the decency to explain what was going on (truthfully) to the players, and he clearly made a royal stuff up of that - probably because the company line was a lie and he stupidly felt obliged to follow it. BS only works in the US. But as they say, nothing is as bad as it seems and nothing is as good as it seems. If the pies have a good season in 2021, then this fiasco will be accepted. On the other hand, if De Goey misses the season following his court case in April, then Pies supporters will be wondering further why they dumped salary and quality players in order to enable signing him to a new contract. I love your 'P.S'
Chanon
Guest
Collingwood hierarchy should have been more humble & honest with players & members during this debacle. Hindsight is a funny thing, l’m sure they would luv to rewind & take another approach.For now every action has a reaction which will play out over the coming weeks & months!
Michael Butler
Guest
Yes you are right - blind loyalty doesn’t win premierships but good decision making does. 2 premierships in 64 years and a multitude of grand finals failures is not good enough. The McGuire/ Buckley regime has failed. Their egos wouldn’t allow for such introspection - they will need to be forced out.