The Bok fan is not normal: Why everything rides on this battle with England

I can understand frustrations over it but ultimately I think it was the right decision personally. It probably wasn’t cynical/reckless on Kolisi’s part, but the kinetic nature of those high balls contests, where the players come running in with so much horizontal velocity, means that whover gets highest and gets their hands on the ball has a high liklihood of rotating in the air and landing on body parts they don’t want to be landing on, and no hands to protect themselves with,and I fear that sooner or later someone is going to be hospitalized or worse on live TV from one of these kinds of mid-air collisions. Personally I see no way of nudging away from those kinds of incidents other than by officiating them on an objective basis (outcomes based – if the player comes down hard, you get penalized hard). It’s not always going to be completely fair on the penalized, becasue there is little/no mitigation for their lack of reckless intent, but referees can’t possibly know intent really. They like to pretend they do I’ve noticed (‘deliberate knock on’ penalties, etc.).

All true but none of it is SA’s ‘fault’. The game is created by the law makers and officials. Within that game there are winning and losing versions. The successful teams just figure out what the winning versions are. In the competitors job description, surely ‘win’ has to remain above ‘entertain’ if sport is to remain sport?

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SA lost the game marginally but 2 penalty misses from 10(Pollard) and one conversion miss from 22(Janjities) which would have made it a 7 point win. England worked out the Bok defence twice, once through lovely passing on quick strike, once on phaseplay. England played better in terms of taking their chances and making them count I think Pollard was great with the ball in hand, giving his classic flat passes, and the kicking was okay, far from great. The Boks will rue their missed chances, while England took theirs. TaSanalytics made an interesting ref analysis here, Kwagga’s disallowed penalty try if correctly awarded…well, would have made the Boks win. Kudos to England, but if Nienaber says that the Boks aren’t where they need to be yet, in fact far from it, they will be superb in attack, defence, kicking, and hopefully goal-kicking all-round when they are where they want to be. Even not at their best, they still are no. 1 in the world. A decent year which leaves many learning points for the 2019 World Champions

Did anyone else think the decision to sin bin Kolosi (spelling) Bok captain was outrageous - he went for ball and as they came down the English player fell in his arms - common sense tells you he wasnt tackling him in the air?? Another Northern Hemisphere decision??!!

Unfortunately when I read any article on the psychological make-up of the South African rugby fan what still immediately appears in my mind's eye is Piet Van Zyl breaking referee McHugh's shoulder. That footage, much as I would like to forget it, was shocking, and it was underlined by his unrepentance: “Don’t forget that the incident happened when the referee closed his one eye and ceased to see the Springboks. I am therefore not sorry that I did what I did. If he, the referee, didn’t do what he did that incident would not have happened.” In other words, it was the referee's fault. Is this attitude limited to just one aberrant Van Zyl, or is it an insight into a wider, more general psychology, for example attitudes to referees and attitudes to personal responsibility. I have pondered this question, and have pondered it again as this article reminded me of that day.

That's because imo Nienaber is overly cautious , overly conservative ..This tour was an ideal opportunity to blood Fassi for the WC 2023..Jesse Kriel over Sbu is an uber conservative , safe selection ..He brings no secrets , no x factor to the party ....And Siya should please leave those no look passes to Am who has alien like peripheral vision. Kolisi didnt look and passed it half a meter behind Kriel with an open tryline beckoning ..Should be given detention for that.

Also gave England a nice cushion allowing them to risk conceding penalties without too much concern..17 to 4 tells the whole story...

Hi Mick, it is certainly interesting from the perspective of how to move forward. My theory is we will continue to lose our best players to cash rich unions and their clubs. I expect soon our Bok team will consist of 75% overseas club players. At least the established players won't be from our domestic teams. It will be important though that our franchises find a way to recruit back the players that are at the end of their careers in order to get their rugby IP and experience to set examples for our franchises which will have increasingly more and more youngsters representing them. SARU must realise our teams in the URC will be younger, be seen as development teams for not only the overseas clubs but also for the Boks. So they need to find the best development system in those franchises, improve coaching structures in SA, finance academies for youth development, have those few "old" players who maybe have a year or two left and use them as player coaches/assistant coaches in the system.

That's cool man. This is what life is about hey, making good memories. I still think its weird how some are so vivid, while I can barely remember any details from yesterday.

Love it Biltong. After todays 3 matches - things are getting interesting in the NH vs SH rugby stakes. The cross pollination of players and coaches in the NH leagues - as well as the increased level of professionalism - seems to be bearing fruit. I've been reflecting on the Bokke's journey this year. And it's been a tough one for sure - after a year of covid induced hibernation. It seems they have benefitted from the match-hardened professional contingent of their playing group to get back up-to-speed with some level of success. BUT this seems to have come at the expense of local/ junior players getting their chances. I know it's a delicate balancing act all coaches are battling with (just ask Dave Rennie) - but I'm concerned that this will eventually catch-up with the Bokke - probably around the time the next WC starts! We are thin on match-hardened international experience in a number of key areas - and JN's default-stick-with-the-guys-I-know isnt helping. So how does SA rugby (and NZ/ AUS in fact) continue to stock it's cupboard with promising youngsters AND give them international game time - without relinquishing and losing them to overseas leagues? Super tricky one!

Aussie Aussie Aussie Harry.

0-4 and it is going to rain all day. :crying:

Gracious of you HJ, a monumental effort from the Bokke given how long this season has been, they're in a great position going forward (maybe a better reserve 10? Why can't pollard play 80 minutes?) A solid pass for the year for SA

We were very poor in the first half. Second much better but we seriously need to improve our finishing. Threw away three chances in the second half. Kolisi passing behind Kriel with an open try line. Kwagga trying to roll over Malin when Reinach was ready to snipe into the space n the blindside that was open. Kwagga should have laid the ball back. When Etzebeth broke the line and Marx collected that pass we had all the momentum and England back tracking, all we had to do was have a clean ruck and push the line, instead we have a forward diving into the ruck.

Soft early tries cost the Boks the game imo.