Nearly Immortals: The best of the rest

By matth / Roar Guru

We all know of the time-honoured tradition of the NRL Immortals. 

It was started in the early 1980s to sell bottles of port. The original list of four has swelled to 13 amid much pomp and ceremony, debate and controversy.

Each year we see a raft of commentary on future Immortals, should-be Immortals, should-never-have-been Immortals and ‘I can’t believe it’s not Immortal’.

I participate as enthusiastically as anyone.

So I thought I’d produce a team of players who at some point have been thrown up as possibilities but have not yet made the cut, or likely never will.

Just to remind you, here are the 13 current Immortals, therefore ineligible for this team: Clive Churchill, Graeme Langlands, Reg Gasnier, Bob Fulton, Dave Brown, Dally Messenger, Mal Meninga, Wally Lewis, Andrew Johns, John Raper, Frank Burge, Norm Provan and Arthur Beetson.

Se here is my team of almost Immortals:

Fullback: Billy Slater
Category: Future Immortal
‘Billy the Kid’ is an even-money chance of becoming the third fullback Immortal at some point.

True greatness over a long period made the impossible possible: Clive Churchill was compared to another player.

Alternatives: I don’t see any truly unlucky players in the rest of the fullback ranks, with maybe Les Johns, Graeme Eadie, old timer Howard Hallett and current star James Tedesco forming the next tier.

To be honest, the main alternative is sitting down at five-eighth.

(Photo by Kelly Defina/Getty Images)

Winger: Ken Irvine
Category: Could be Immortal
Wingers appear to be undervalued in the Immortals ranks and Ken Irvine scored more tries than any of them.

His biggest problem might be that the Immortals have already welcomed plenty of players from the 1960s and 1970s era.

Winger: Brian Bevan
Category: Does he fit as an Immortal?
There is no doubt that the balding, knobbly-kneed, chain-smoking wonder was the greatest try scorer in rugby league history, it’s just that he did it in England.

Alternatives: Souths legend Harold Horder from the 1920s would have come under serious consideration when the NRL added their pre-War players.

Players like Johnny King and Brian Carlson were not considered to be quite in Irvine’s class. After that, Eric Grothe’s chances were likely destroyed by injury but it was good while it lasted.

Centre: Steve Rogers
Category: Could be Immortal
The ‘Prince of Centres’ is the standout here given Gasnier, Fulton, Brown, Messenger, Meninga and Langlands have wiped the centre position clean. Rogers would sit well in that company.

(Photo by Getty Images)

Centre: Jim Craig
Category: Should be Immortal
I’d say Jim Craig missed out to the likes of Dave Brown purely for having the gall to play for Ipswich for part of his career. Roarer AMD put a very compelling case forward recently.

Alternatives: The importance of the centre has started to make a comeback after years of decline, but alternatives are currently thin on the ground after half the existing Immortals played there.

Three options would be ‘Gentleman’ Tom Gorman and Les Cubitt, the best centres in the 1920s, and Greg Inglis, where talk of Immortal status for this amazing athlete seems to have died away.

Just quietly, Gene Miles lost nothing in comparison to Big Mal.

Five-eighth: Darren Lockyer
Category: Should be Immortal
If Johns is there, his great rival should be as well. Longevity, success and influence, Lockyer had it all in spades.

Alternatives: The best from the 1970s and 1980s are already in. But there is one criminal omission from at least being in discussions: Brett Kenny, possibly the most gifted player from a golden era.

The other is Vic Hey, universally considered the greatest five-eighth before Fulton and Lewis. Brad Fittler and Laurie Daley also come into the conversation from time to time, not without merit.

The other interesting possibility is Eric Weissel, who in in the early 1930s was considered by some the best player since Messenger.

He suffered by never leaving NSW Country to play in the Sydney competition. Even so, he was an automatic selection for Australia throughout his career.

Halfback: Allan Langer
Category: Nearly Immortal
Langer’s comical persona has taken away from a remarkable career where he dominated the 1990s and did everything possible in the game.

Wayne Bennett has been an advocate, as you’d expect. Langer’s record stacks up very well against Andrew Johns and his short kicking game changed the sport.

(Photo by Patrick Riviere/Getty Images)

Alternatives: So many, given the importance of the halfback in our game. They could all have easily been selected instead of Langer, which probably makes a case that they all just miss out or all should be in together.

Peter Sterling, Johnathan Thurston, Cooper Cronk, Steve Mortimer, Tommy Raudonikis, Keith Holman. If you go right back then Duncan Thompson, Chris McKivat and Arthur ‘Pony’ Halloway sit in this company.

Lock: Ron Coote
Category: In an Immortal’s shadow
If not for Johnny Raper, Ron Coote would be an Immortal. A brilliant player on both sides of the ball and a winner of multiple premierships with two clubs, Coote had everything.

Alternatives: They are definitely next tier to Coote although all worthy Hall of Fame members: Ray Price, Wayne Pearce, Brad Clyde and Wally Prigg.

Second row: Steve Menzies
Category: Seemed Immortal
There are not many second-row Immortals other than Norm Provan and Frank Burge. So either second rowers are ignored or they just aren’t that good.

Steve Menzies played an unbelievable amount of games, scored an unbelievable amount of tries and barely played a bad game or made a mistake in 20 years of football.

Is that enough to be Immortal? He made it hard to dislike Manly, so that’s some Immortal effort right there.

(Photo by Daniel Berehulak/Getty Images)

Second row: Bob McCarthy
Category: Making up the numbers
No offence to such a great player, but second-row alternatives are thin on the ground. McCarthy is not in the conversation.

Alternatives: you tell me. Arthur Clues, like Harry Bath and Brian Bevan, was lost to Australian rugby league after only a glimpse of what he would become.

To be fair, I was struggling here.

Prop: Glenn Lazarus
Category: Should be Immortal
The ‘Brick With Eyes’ was the modern era’s greatest prop without question. Premierships with three clubs seals the deal.

Make it official!

Prop: Duncan Hall
Category: Ever so close but not quite Immortal
Hall was the standout in an incredibly tough era, winning titles wherever he went. But I see him as slightly below the absolute legendary aura that Immortals should have.

Alternatives: Plenty given that the front row is where games are won. Harry Bath was a legend in Queensland, Balmain, England and St George. There is possibly no one more worthy.

Then you have the tough-as-teak players throughout the years such as Noel Kelly, Ray Stehr, Herb Steinohrt, John ‘Lurch’ O’Neill and Steve ‘Blocker’ Roach.

Hooker: Cameron Smith
Category: Immortal in waiting
Apparently no hooker so far has been good enough to be an Immortal of our game. That will all change the minute Cameron Smith becomes eligible.

There are no credible arguments against it.

(Photo by Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)

Alternatives: There is no one who comes close to Smith, but there are plenty on the next tier who don’t quite make it, such as Ben Elias, Danny Buderus and Steve Walters.

Going further back, Noel Kelly was more a prop in my mind, but is also just below the cut off. The St George dynasty produced two worthy contenders in Ian Walsh and ‘Killer’ Ken Kearney.

Then there is rugby league’s first great hooker Sid ‘Sandy’ Pearce and 1920s Toowoomba legend Dan Dempsey.

So who gets the next tap on the shoulder? A modern superstar or an overlooked legend?

One thing is for sure, this is a pretty handy team that might not quite fit under the salary cap.

The Crowd Says:

2022-05-14T09:34:42+00:00

Lucky Leo

Guest


To Play SOO at that time Queensland players had to sign a contract with the QRL. Senator Ron Mc and the QRL blocked many of that era Qld players going to Sydney Comp.

2022-05-12T12:18:53+00:00

ManlyMagic

Roar Rookie


Stewart was the first choice NSW fullback when fit and that was his main problem throughout his career. He didn’t have the longevity with Manly and NSW. He was the Turbo of his time. Thought he was better than Billy.

AUTHOR

2022-05-11T04:19:18+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


One with Norths in 1980. I can't remember if he won another. He certainly didn't while at Redcliffe, given we didn't win one between 1965 and after 1988 :shocked: I was just pointing out that Muppet's record stacks up pretty well so using him as an example of the weakness of the comp is arguable. Anyway, I'm biased here, so let's leave it as agree to have different points of view. Remember, in my article I did say Kenny was one of the most deserving players to be in Immortal conversations.

2022-05-11T03:26:34+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


We both know the Mark Murray I am referring to. The best Halfback in the Brisbane Competition between the time that Greg Oliphant left to go to the Balmain Tigers in 1979 & prior to Alfie commencing his career in 1986. He won a couple BRL premierships as well didn't he?

AUTHOR

2022-05-11T02:12:33+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


That would be Mark Murray with a winning state of origin record across 15 matches opposing Sterling (8 times), Mortimer (6) and Hasler (1)? Mark Murray who played 7 tests and never lost? Murray was selected for three test series between 1983 and 1985. On all three occasions he was not selected for the final test and Australia lost two of those. Now, if you say Murray only won those origin and tests because Lewis was beside him, then you negate your own assessment of Lewis. If you stick to Lewis not being as good as generally accepted, then you have to accept that Murray was a significantly better footballer than you give him credit for. And he is the player you use to denigrate the quality of the Brisbane competition? Okay. PS in 1985 Murray's Redcliffe, also boasting Wally Fullerton Smith, Greg Conescu, Bryan Neibling and Mitch Brennan could even make the finals. They were beaten by Wynnum, Souths (the premiers), Brothers and Valleys.

2022-05-10T22:02:40+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


Matt, I know you have a strong sports knowledge & I am sure you are aware that between 1980-86 it was not a 2-horse race in Sydney. Besides the Dogs & the Eels, numerous clubs had very strong sides. E.g., Easts, Manly, St George, Balmain & Souths. Unlike the other clubs in Brisbane, these clubs were not just making up the numbers. Great sides like Manly & St George were just unlucky to meet the Dogs & Eels in their strongest eras. So much so, the Maroons were calling on players from these other sides to play Origin from them. I lived in Brisbane in 1985 & watched games both live & on TV. Believe me, it was a lesser level watching the best half back in the competition Mark Murray running around.

AUTHOR

2022-05-10T12:23:55+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


The English competition was by far the strongest during Churchill’s era. And yes Lewis won three titles because ….. the competition was extraordinarily strong. How many Sydney teams won premierships between 1980 and 1986? Oh that’s right - 2. Lopsided weak competition? But you are right. We will never know how Lewis in his prime would gone in Sydney. He chose to stay in Brisbane. We can only go on his record for Brisbane and QLD against the cream of NSW.

2022-05-10T04:49:18+00:00

Gray-Hand

Roar Rookie


The warriors only won the minor premiership because the bulldogs lost all their points - so that doesn’t count. Melbourne win minor premierships because they have had 2 likely immortals, and two modern greats all playing together at the same time under the best coach of the last 15 years. No other team has that. And travelling between Melbourne to Sydney is way, way easier than Townsville to anywhere.

2022-05-10T03:19:24+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


So Wally Lewis was playing in a comp that had 3 teams that could have matched the Sydney teams & won 3 premierships in 10 years? Wow, what an outstanding achievement! A big difference to Clive Churchill who won five premierships playing in about a dozen 18 week seasons in the strongest competition in the world & dominating it. I've read Easts tried to sign Wally in the early 80s but he declined & stayed in Brisbane. We can speculate that he might have dominated the Sydney competition, but we will never really know will we?

2022-05-10T02:35:34+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


Agreed. The greatest halfback of all time.

2022-05-09T21:18:22+00:00

Randy

Roar Rookie


This why I think Thurston stands above a lot of other halves in the discussion, he never played in a stacked club team. Cronk, Langer, Stuart and Sterling were all in very, very strong club sides for most of their careers. That Cowboys side JT was part of was good but not star studded.

2022-05-09T12:31:20+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


Throughout his career, Cooper Cronk continually played in great sides behind huge forward packs & with great players outside him. For extended periods of their careers, the likes of Stacey Jones & Steve Mortimer didn't have that luxury. I would definitely rate them as better & more brilliant players. E.g. Steve Mortimer commenced his career in 1976 but only started behind a big forward pack in 1984. His brilliance kept that club in the finals race prior to Warren Ryan & the big forwards coming to the club. I doubt Cooper Cronk would have had the capacity to replicate that.

2022-05-09T12:18:25+00:00

Heyou

Roar Rookie


Loved this little gem of an article. I could be strung up for this, but Darren Lockyer and Cameron Smith fit the bill for mine. Pains in the Blues’ behinds for way too many frustrating years and pains in every part of the anatomy of every opposing side. Bloody Alfie Langer too the little pest. He is still a pain even though he hasn’t played for yonks. Wish he would take his towel, drink bottle and shiny bald head and get off the plucking paddock lol

2022-05-09T12:01:47+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


Have a look at this kick that Ricky invented that cost the doogies a spot in the grand final. https://www.facebook.com/groups/dansnrlcollectables/permalink/4263570713717466/

AUTHOR

2022-05-09T11:49:15+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


During the 1980’s until 1987 the top three Brisbane sides were on par with the Sydney comp. Wynnum in 1984 we’re as good a club side as there has been. What happened before 1980 is irrelevant. Lewis debuted in 1978 at the beginning of the Golden generation. His prime years were the 1980’s when QLD dominated interstate clashes. And who were the dominant players? Lewis, Meninga, Lindner, Miles, Murray, Conescu, Scott, Dowling, Jackson, Fullerton Smith. Guess what? All of them were playing in the Brisbane comp until the late 1980’s. Lewis in the Sydney competition was after he had already played for a decade and was a veteran. You could just as easily argue that the Sydney premierships in the 1980’s were devalued because they never had to play against the best players of their generation in their prime who were regularly beating them in interstate clashes. Is Churchill an underserving immortal because Britain were the undisputed champions of rugby league until 1963? Or that Australia didn’t couldn’t beat France during his era? The Sydney comp was second tier then. Or what about in the 1920’s when NSW couldn’t beat QLD for 6 years and the Sydney premiers lost to Toowoomba and Ipswich multiple times. I’ll take the undisputed long captain of his winning state and country, judged by experts to be the greatest player of his era thanks.

2022-05-09T11:25:56+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


Wally Lewis only won 3 premierships in a 2nd tier competition Matt. You are comparing apples & oranges. If the QRL & NSWRL were of equal standard, State of Origin would have never been created. NSW had an 80% win record before 1980. Wally only played about 70-80 games in the NRL, his ability to have long term success playing against bigger & better players week in & week is still today an unknown. No doubt he is one of the finest origin players we have ever seen, but winning 3 premierships in the QRL is like getting a kiss from from your sister!

2022-05-09T11:06:38+00:00

Mr Right

Roar Rookie


How many individual Dally M awards did Brett Kenny win? One, Dally M Representative Player of the Year: 1986.

2022-05-09T08:40:15+00:00

no one in particular

Roar Guru


The first hundred were the 100 from the Greatest 100 for the centenary. The 10 most recent all played in the 90's and some into the 2000's The HOF should be a high honour, a fraction of 1% of all players should be considered, let alone voted in. Guys who had "good careers" shouldn't be there, it should be the best of their era, automatic rep selections over many years

2022-05-09T08:33:44+00:00

Greg

Roar Pro


Ive no issue with Thurston being in the discussion and believe that the travel does take some toll. But, the Warriors have a minor premiership and the Storm have several. There is no excuse for the Cowboys to never, ever win one.

2022-05-09T08:10:07+00:00

ken gargett

Guest


agree on thurston. and absolutely agree on reddy. toughest player imaginable (just ask ray price after the GF replay, although he may have gone a little over the top there). but wonderfully skillful. fast, great defence. had it all.

More Comments on The Roar

Read more at The Roar