Penrith’s recruitment history and lessons for the Dolphins

By matth / Roar Guru

In various comments on a recent Roar article criticisms were levelled at new franchise, the ‘absolutely, definitely not Redcliffe’ Dolphins for their recruitment strategy as they set up for a 2023 debut year in the NRL.

In particular, they were taken to task for focusing on ready-made NRL players from outside their catchment and not building up using their own local juniors.

There are many reasons why such a strategy is not viable in practice, at least initially.

The club has been given only 12 months to put together an NRL-ready team and they are receiving no salary cap or other concessions to do so.

Top juniors and others are already tied up with other NRL franchises, given The Dolphins were only given the green light to join the competition a short time ago.

Any marquee player hailing from the Peninsula, such as Daly Cherry-Evans, is already tied up elsewhere.

The step up to NRL from the lower tiers has never been larger. In the 1960s and even the 1980s, the last two great expansion periods, players from the second division or the bush were semi-professionals moving to a higher level, but still semi-professional competition.

Just looking at the physiques of the professional level players now shows that a 2nd division player may need more time to adjust and more NRL players around him than ever before.

Some Panthers supporters in particular were scathing of the Dolphins’ approach. They made some outlandish claims about 98 percent of Penrith players being local juniors and only 30 to 40 players in their history to have been brought in from the outside.

That got me thinking.

Firstly, are any of these claims even close to reality? Secondly what did the Panthers look like as they entered the competition back in 1967, how long did it take them to stabilise and achieve success and when they did climb the summit for their three premierships, what was the make-up of those sides?

There could be some lessons here for the Dolphins, as in many ways they are a throwback to the expansion sides of 1967 with existing rugby league set ups (i.e. Penrith and Cronulla) rather than the manufactured franchises added in more recent times.

Wayne Bennett will be the first coach of the Dolphins. (Photo by Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)

Where have the Panthers’ players come from?

If you believe some of the more excitable fans riding the club’s current wave of success, Penrith have always been carrying the flag for junior development.

98% local juniors?

Only 30 to 40 players in their history from outside the region?

I found that hard to believe, even with these fans claiming 90 percent of Western NSW as Penrith territory (they aren’t QLD state of origin selectors are they?)

So I took the simple expedient of checking every single one of the 607 players who have turned out for the Panthers in their history and worked out roughly where they came from. And here it is:

1. Local juniors from the Penrith area – 40%. And this was being generous. Wherever a player started their first grade career at Penrith and where a cursory Google couldn’t determine their footballing origins, I gave them to the Panthers as a junior.
2. Players from outside the Penrith area who started their first grade career at Penrith – 20%. This includes players from the ‘traditional’ Panthers strongholds of Dubbo, Lithgow, West Wyalong and other parts of NSW Country.

But it also includes players from all over QLD (including one from Redcliffe!), NZ, the Pacific Islands, PNG, Newcastle and a few from traditional rivals and neighbours Parramatta.

3. Players taken from other NRL clubs – 40%. That’s right. Just under 240 players have played for Penrith after debuting for other clubs.

A whopping 47 from rivals Parramatta, 22 from Easts, 20 from Cronulla, 16 each from Balmain and Wests, 14 from St George, 13 each from Newcastle, Souths and Canterbury, 9 each from Brisbane (either Broncos or from the BRL clubs before that) and NZ, 7 from Newtown, 6 from Canberra, 5 each from North QLD and North Sydney, 4 each from Illawarra and Manly, 3 from Gold Coast, 2 from Melbourne.

As well as the NRL, Penrith have also looked to England (6), rugby union (3 including one of these from South Africa) and even France (1).

The same numbers for the last five seasons since 2017 (as far as I can tell and I admit this is a bit loose) is around 35% local juniors, 35% outsiders but Panthers as first club and 30% signed from other clubs.

(Photo by Brett Hemmings/Getty Images)

So a 10% reduction in poaching but also less local juniors, replaced by heading out west and searching Country NSW. But overall the pattern seems relatively similar.

So the myth is busted, thanks to a few hours on Rugby League Project. Or is it? I don’t have the time nor inclination to do a similar exercise for other teams, but I would imagine 60-70% either locals or from outside but starting first grade at the club is actually pretty good compared to other clubs.

How did the Panthers’ 1967 side stack up?

Not well as it turned out. There was just one single local junior on debut in their first match, second rower Wal Crust. There were two others making their debut from NSW Country, but the remaining 10 were all signed from other clubs. So 10 of 13 were taken from other clubs for Game 1.

FULLBACK – Bill Tonkin – Balmain
WING – Bob Landers – Easts
CENTRE – Ern Gillon – Parramatta
CENTRE – Wayne Peckham – NSW Country (Moree)
WING – Dave Applebee – NSW Country (Gunnedah / Oakdale)
FIVE-EIGHTH – Maurie Raper – Canterbury and Wests
HALFBACK – Laurie Fagan – Balmain
FRONT ROW – Barry Harris – Newtown and South Sydney
HOOKER – Ron Workman – Parramatta
FRONT ROW – Geoff Waldie – Easts
SECOND ROW – Bill McCall – Easts and Parramatta
SECOND ROW – Wal Crust – local junior
LOCK – Tony Brown – Newtown

So Penrith initially went with a ready-made side from outside their district filled with NSWRL experience, just as the Dolphins appear to be doing. Did it go well? No it did not.

The Panthers finished just clear of fellow new side Cronulla in the race for the wooden spoon. It would be nearly 20 years, a pair of spoons and a memorable afternoon when Manly put 70 points on them before the club reached finals for the first time.

What this tells me is that the Dolphins approach of trying to stack their side with existing NRL experience is the accepted method and should not be looked down upon, but it doesn’t necessarily bring immediate success and this should not be expected.

More likely it allows them to mark time and avoid some embarrassment while they work to develop their pathways and find that once in a generation player to propel them to relevance.

Comparing the Panthers’ premiership-winning teams.

After 24 years had passed, the Panthers first tasted premiership success. This was followed 12 years later in 2003 and after another 18 seasons by 2021. What was the make-up of these three teams and were there any similarities between the eras?

1991

This side had only four players signed from other clubs, with six local juniors and another five who debuted with the club. Their half, captain and most celebrated player was a local junior. 27% bought from other clubs is well down on Penrith’s overall average of 40%.

FULLBACK – Greg BARWICK – signed from Canterbury
WING – Graham MACKAY – signed from Wests
CENTRE – Brad FITTLER – local junior
CENTRE – Col BENTLEY – from Cudgen and debuted with Penrith
WING – Paul SMITH – from Liverpool and debuted with Penrith
FIVE-EIGHTH – Steve CARTER – from Wyong and debuted with Penrith from high school
HALFBACK – Greg ALEXANDER (c) – local junior
FRONT ROW – Paul CLARKE – signed from Balmain
HOOKER – Royce SIMMONS – played first grade rugby league for both Cowra and Canowindra as a teenager, NSWRL debut with Penrith.
FRONT ROW – Paul DUNN – signed from Canterbury
SECOND ROW – Mark GEYER – from Granville near Parramatta, debuted with Penrith
SECOND ROW – Barry WALKER – local junior
LOCK – Colin VAN DER VOORT – local junior
BENCH – John CARTWRIGHT – local junior
BENCH – Brad IZZARD – local junior

Brad Fittler of the Panthers  (Photo by Getty Images)

2003

Signings from other clubs doubled for the club’s next premiership to 8, but there were also 8 local juniors including their half, captain and most celebrated player (see a pattern here?). Only one player was scouted and debuted from outside the local area. But at 47% bought from outside, this team was less ‘local’ than the average Panthers team.

FULLBACK – Rhys WESSER – from Rockhampton, debuted with Penrith
WING – Luke LEWIS – local junior
CENTRE – Ryan GIRDLER – signed from Illawarra
CENTRE – Paul WHATUIRA – signed from Melbourne
WING – Luke ROONEY – local junior
FIVE-EIGHTH – Preston CAMPBELL – signed from Cronulla
HALFBACK – Craig GOWER (c) – local junior
FRONT ROW – Joel CLINTON – local junior
HOOKER – Luke PRIDDIS – signed from Brisbane
FRONT ROW – Martin LANG – signed from Cronulla
SECOND ROW – Joe GALUVAO – signed from Auckland
SECOND ROW – Tony PULETUA – local junior
LOCK – Scott SATTLER – signed from South QLD Crushers
BENCH – Ben ROSS – signed from St George
BENCH – Trent WATERHOUSE – local junior
BENCH – Shane RODNEY – local junior
BENCH – Luke SWAIN – local junior

2021

The current Penrith juggernaut is based on only 5 players signed from other clubs, with the other 12 either local juniors or debuting with the club.

This 70% local or locally developed is only slightly lower than the 1991 side. And once again their half, captain and most celebrated player is a local junior.

FULLBACK – Dylan EDWARDS – from Bellingen, south west of Coffs Harbour, debuted with the club
WING – Stephen CRICHTON – local junior
CENTRE – Paul MOMIROVSKI – signed from Melbourne
CENTRE – Matt BURTON – from Dubbo, debuted at the club
WING – Brian TO’O – local junior
FIVE-EIGHTH – Jarome LUAI – local junior
HALFBACK – Nathan CLEARY (c) – local junior
FRONT ROW – Moses LEOTA – local junior
HOOKER – Apisai KOROISAU – signed from South Sydney
FRONT ROW – James FISHER-HARRIS – from NZ, debuted with the club
SECOND ROW – Liam MARTIN – from West Wyalong, debuted with the club
SECOND ROW – Kurt CAPEWELL – signed from Cronulla
LOCK – Isaah YEO – from Dubbo, debuted with the club
BENCH – Viliame KIKAU – signed from North Queensland
BENCH – Tyrone MAY – local junior
BENCH – Scott SORENSEN – signed from Cronulla
BENCH – Spencer LENIU – local junior

Lessons for the Dophins

There are certainly ways to build and maintain a successful club other than the recent Penrith method – look no further than The Storm or The Roosters. However, it’s only natural that the NRL’s newest franchise will look to the current benchmark for inspiration (and few players as well, thanks for that!).

What the Penrith experience tells us is that even a club from a rugby league district with a healthy junior base may need to start with a team of ‘mercenaries’ to be competitive. One way to success from that point, for a ‘rugby league heartland’ club is to push towards a healthy dose of juniors and development players.

In particular, it doesn’t hurt if your captain and best players are also those who understand the culture of the club and the district. If Redcliffe had joined the competition a decade earlier that player might have been Daly Cherry-Evans.

Now they will have to identify and capture that player and hope it doesn’t take 24 years before a prodigy emerges from somewhere in Margate or North Lakes.

The Crowd Says:

2022-07-08T09:56:07+00:00

Mitchell

Guest


Panthers is an honest organisation who doesn't care about gambling profits, they just care for the local community.

2022-07-08T09:51:15+00:00

Wayne

Guest


Yeah Panthers fans right now are like the Prius drivers on South Park.

2022-07-07T07:26:10+00:00

Pickett

Roar Rookie


Great read Matth. Thanks for shedding some light on all the 'local juniors' mumbo jumbo about Penrith. Can you now do a similar one for Souths?

2022-07-06T19:29:57+00:00

Duncan Smith

Roar Guru


So what you're saying is that Wal Crust was the only local junior in that first Penrith side of 1967. Wonder if he's still alive and Vossy could track him down for an interview?

2022-07-06T13:37:41+00:00

Barry

Guest


With Panthers junior numbers they should be tripping over and winning a comp every 10 years. they just seem to seriously mismanage their way out of winning.

2022-07-06T13:31:37+00:00

Richard

Guest


You can't argue with maths.

2022-07-06T13:28:56+00:00

Richard

Guest


Yes, it baffles me Panthers you think the dolphins can just magic up a side with local juniors, you really are missing the point.

2022-07-06T06:20:05+00:00

Pomoz

Roar Rookie


Spot on Matt. I am not surprised you popped our bubble. The newer Panther fans have no idea how terrible we have been at producing juniors over the years. As recent as 2011, we fielded a team against St George with only 6 juniors in the 17 players. Only 1 of the spine, fullback Lachlan Coote, was a junior. We were so bad the only good thing we did all year was not make the semifinals, thereby sparing league fans the need to watch the eyeball bleeding football we were producing. Why the club thought it was a good idea to compete with the likes of the Roosters by buying players, I will never know. They have a huge local junior nursery, they are on the doorstep to western NSW and the CRL, they have no discernable location or sponsor advantages. Penrith or Bondi? Let me think about it... In 2012 Gus Gould arrived and sanity prevailed. Amen.

2022-07-06T03:13:37+00:00

Duncan Smith

Roar Guru


FULLBACK – Bill Tonkin – Balmain WING – Bob Landers – Easts CENTRE – Ern Gillon – Parramatta CENTRE – Wayne Peckham – NSW Country (Moree) WING – Dave Applebee – NSW Country (Gunnedah / Oakdale) FIVE-EIGHTH – Maurie Raper – Canterbury and Wests HALFBACK – Laurie Fagan – Balmain FRONT ROW – Barry Harris – Newtown and South Sydney HOOKER – Ron Workman – Parramatta FRONT ROW – Geoff Waldie – Easts SECOND ROW – Bill McCall – Easts and Parramatta SECOND ROW – Wal Crust – local junior LOCK – Tony Brown – Newtown That amazing side from '67 still often discussed in rugby league circles even today.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:33:51+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


I’m struggling to see where I have made comments against Penrith. I made comments against fibs told by Penrith supporters and showed the facts, and then said those facts paint Penrith in a pretty good light. I’ve praised the Penrith system and looked at lessons for The Dolphins. Don’t conflate pulling up certain fans with criticizing the club.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:29:23+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


The split between “local” and “debuted at the club” was to show in some detail where Penrith get their development players from. When show the percentages and commenting I have basically pt them together. Defining “local” can be hard. Dubbo is not local to Penrith but it doesn’t mean those players weren’t developed by the club. I thought the distinction was interesting, but not a cause for argument.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:24:23+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


I’ve explained why this is the case in some detail further up the threads. In short a new team can’t just magic unsigned but NRL ready 18-20 year olds when all other clubs are active in their areas before they even got a license. Their own pathways development starts now with 15-17 year olds and will mature in 5 years or so. In the meantime they have to compete on the market for the 18-20 year old players.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:17:38+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


You are very entitled to your opinion and so is Rellum. All Guru means is that we submit articles. So can you. Have you thought why Redcliffe are targetting 18-20 year olds from Penrith? 1. They need that age group. Their own pathways can’t produce that for about five years as every decent 18-20 year old player is already signed to another club before the Dolphins were even granted a license. They will start to sign the 15-17 year olds in competition with other clubs from now. 2. All clubs have an existing presence in Brisbane and sign juniors here. It’s not like the NRL stopped them from signing kids 5 years ago in case a new team was put in place. 3. Brisbane Broncos are the richest team in the league and they lock up a lot of juniors up here. 4. Penrith have a lot of good juniors, but also have a very strong and relatively young NRL squad, so players might be looking elsewhere for their future 5. Because they need 30 players in a single season plus development players, with no salary cap concessions at all, they cannot just buy 30 plus first graders under the cap. 6. Normally when a club signs a junior from another (and they all do it – even Penrith got Kikau from the Cowboys juniors) they can only take one or two, as they have few slots available in their 30 man roster. Redcliffe are going for 30 plus in one year, making it look worse. The only legitimate complaint Penrith can really make is why they are being targeted and not other clubs. That would be because you have good juniors and their path to the top is blocked by a premiership winning team.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:06:46+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


No club is above taking juniors from others. But this year is unique because a club needs 30 players plus development players in a single season. For example, when Penrith signed Kikau from the Cowboys pathways there is no way they could have signed another four (not that they would have wanted to), as their 30 man roster would have been mostly filled.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T01:01:20+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


I understand that frustration, but think of this. The Dolphins cannot have a group of 17-19 year old locals ready to go. Until 18 months ago they were not a pathway for those kids to get to the NRL. Every club has a presence in QLD and the best kids in that age group are already tied up. The Dolphins from last year can now target their own pathway for local kids, but they will be getting the 15-16 year olds at this time, in competition with everyone else . Hopefully that pathway will work for them in say 5 to 7 years, especially if they look to the structure that Penrith have successfully set up. But they still have to field a side for 5 years minimum. They cannot buy 30 established NRL players, they have no bigger salary cap than anyone else. And they need a flow of young players. Therefore the only possible place to get these 17-19 year olds is from other clubs. You can certainly feel annoyed that Penrith has been their main target to date, but the concept of how they have to go about building the club is to some extent forced upon them. It’s not like the NRL came in 5 years ago and told all other clubs not to sign juniors north of the Brisbane river in case they started up anew franchise.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T00:54:02+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


You would hope so. It will take a little time though because the best 17-20 years olds are likely tied to other clubs before The Dolphins even got their NRL license.

AUTHOR

2022-07-06T00:51:50+00:00

matth

Roar Guru


Both good questions. I guess Brisbane juniors are already tied up pretty tight with virtually every NRL club already having a presence here. Good school kids prior to 2021 would not have been in The Dolphins pathways program on the off chance they become an NRL club, when they could be with an existing NRL club. I also don’t know when the Dolphins themselves stopped being a feeder club for an NRL team. They used to have a relationship with Brisbane and before that the Roosters. Any top kids coming through in that time would have been tied to the NRL club at the time. That changes now of course but it means The Dolphins will need to find their share of the 15 - 17 years olds now, to come through in 5 years or so. The 18 - 20 year olds they are going to have to take from others until their own junior stockpile comes back to them

2022-07-06T00:51:37+00:00

KCR

Roar Rookie


Cheers for the article matth, great read. I read that Redcliffe State High School have qualified the top high school competition again this season. And Scott Murray, the man in charge of their RL program is in the head coach of the Redcliffe Dolphins at QRL level. This would certainly streamline the development of local talent for the future and lead to something similar to the Panthers' model sooner rather than later.

2022-07-05T23:43:49+00:00

Albo

Roar Rookie


Well it must be right . Surely the Panthers wouldn't tell fibs in their marketing spiel ? :silly:

2022-07-05T22:23:56+00:00

Westie

Guest


What a surprise. One of the other Roar Guru’s, jumping to the others support. Everyone’s welcome to their own opinion & are usually welcome to express that opinion. If not for differing opinions & the expressing of such opinions on this site. Your site would be pretty dull & boring. You Guru’s could just pat each other on the back for your wonderful stories & put a ‘ like ‘ of those stories below them, I suppose? Yet you Guru’s are always pretty quick to poo poo other people’s opinions. So lighten up buzz..

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