Is the AFL really having an impact above the Barassi line?

By Peter Zitterschlager / Roar Guru

Each Sunday, I pass a tiny primary school oval in Albion when I drive to visit my mum.

During summer, there’s always a scratch game of cricket going on, played by Indian immigrants, and in winter, a scratch game of footy, played by Vietnamese kids.

It so gladdens my heart to see these Vietnamese teenagers integrating in this way, that in that moment, I feel an urge to detour to Sunshine plaza, pick up a brand new Sherrin, swing back and holler, ‘Hey fellas … [torp the Sherrin deep into the oval] … enjoy!’

I told my mate Mick about this and he quipped, ‘Do that Zit, and the school will be swarming with police sirens.’

Mick, of course, was musing that the Sherrin gesture might be misconstrued as a little too ‘boiled lollies for kiddies’ and though that’s preposterous, you just can’t be too sure about people’s perceptions nowadays, so I’ve since shelved the idea.

Good-humored as he was in that case and usually is, Mick is not so whenever I applaud the AFL’s expansion teams in the northern states.

“That’s f@#*^g bullshit,” he’ll bark when I entertain that GWS are doing missionary work for the code.

It’s a response that not only doesn’t invite a counterargument, it signals that if there *is* a counterargument, the friendship will be ended, embassy’s closed and high grade retribution will be meted out on my ass.

Fortunately, I have the good sense to back off from a combustible situation when I encounter one and for the sake of the friendship, our embassy’s and the preservation of my ass, any kernels of a rebuttal I may have are summarily shelved alongside that nurturing Sherrin for the Vietnamese kids.

Mick’s outrage over my missionary work notion, industrious as it’s been, is not the only factor keeping my shelves well stocked, too: my old work colleague, Craig, has me mothballing rebuttals as well.

Craig is a Fitzroy supporter and having lost his club in the ’97 merger, has a raw nerve about any positive spin on the AFL’s zeal to expand.

Mercifully, most of my mates, and the other people in my circles, are a little less intolerant of my take. Sure they’re insistent that GWS are much less about the good of the code and way more about Andrew Demetriou and co greedily meeting bonus targets, but at least I don’t feel myself ducking for cover the way I do with Mick and Craig.

When I’m not feeling I’m in mortal danger, I’ll argue that just about every sport with a prime time ratings win under its belt is coveting the AFL’s heartland so it has no alternative but to push back.

“This is nature”, I’ll go on to say. “Just like animals and plants, sport’s will always look to expand their range. For the AFL not to would be to defy nature. Indeed, failing to do so would be at its own peril.”

I’ll feel real pleased with myself after this, thinking I’d just crushed their opposition to GWS with a hammer blow to the solar plexus. More often than not, I’ll even bask in my moment, thinking, *I’m getting more and more Yoda like every day; sh#t, is there no limit to my powers of wisdom?* But every so often, every once in a while, someone will push back and say, “That’s f@#*^g bullshit.”

Of course, it is f@#*^g bullshit. At least the ‘at its own peril’ thing is. Aussie Rules is in no danger of withering on the vine should it fail to grow.

The suits at AFL house could have never looked to expand up north and it’d still be every bit the biggest game in town. Even a deranged degree of insularity wouldn’t change that.

I only came to this realization recently. It wasn’t an epiphany or anything. At least it didn’t seem like an epiphany? They’re supposed to feel like an awakening. This felt more like seeing through a con.

That tiresome argument. ‘We’ll lose the best athletes to other sports if we fail to grow’ started to ring hollow. I mean, would the likes of Dusty Martin *really* have been lost to league if we didn’t have the extra TV rights dollars generated by the Queensland and NSW teams?

“Not bloody likely!” I can hear Jerry Seinfeld quote in the worst cockney accent you’ll come across.

For one thing, most of that money gets pumped back into the northern states to prop up their fledgling teams, so it hardly swells the overall salary caps.

But even if I’m wrong and there’s a good chunk left over to pay glamour players, say, 20 to 30% more than they would have got if we didn’t have GWS and The Suns, was that the reason a Dusty or Buddy stuck with Aussie Rules?

I mean, if it’s *really* all about money, wouldn’t we be haemorrhaging all of our best athletes to the riches of European soccer or to the mega-paying sports in the U.S? (or in the case of Mark ‘Jacko’ Jackson, the WWF?!)

Dusty might have been off to the Melbourne Storm if it wasn’t for the AFL adding the Suns. (Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)

Even though it didn’t make a lick of difference to the *real* health of the AFL’s heartland (i.e the amount of kids growing up with Footy, sticking with it because of love, not money), I’m happy to concede, however, that establishing teams in Sydney and Brisbane always had merit.

There were clearly enough Aussie Rules loving ‘expats’ in these Rugby league towns to make that viable. And so it has proved.

The Swans and Lions have both carved out a niche at their respective new homes and for the foreseeable future, look like they will keep afloat.

Indeed, it’s even fair to say that they have prospered and that their fan base is now made up of converts as well. But what has all this growth translated to? Well, it’s a mixed bag.

Of the many great players yielded from the northern states since South went to Sydney (excluding players from the Riverina, Broken Hill and ACT, as these regions were already part of the heartland), most cannot be attributed to a conversion.

Superstars, Michael Voss, Jason Akemanis and Nick Reiwoldt were already into-footy before their families moved to Queensland (just before their teens.) Emerging champion, Charlie Cameron dabbled a little bit with AFL while growing up in Brisbane, but only focused on it after his family moved to Perth (at age 16.)

Melbourne-born rising stars Harris Andrews and Eric Hipwood both grew up as ‘Banana-benders’, but their footy loving families were never gonna stand for them playing League (Hipwood’s Saints crazy parents even got married in the Moorabbin grandstand!)

And then there’s the exceptional players born in the growth states whose parents are from Melbourne.

It’s a long list! Lenny Hayes’s dad took him to Swans games, Mark and Jarrad McVeigh’s dad played 45 games in the VFA, Mal Michael’s dad played for Ormond, Dayne Zorko’s Slovenian born dad first settled in Melbourne, Jarrod Harbrow’s dad is from Shepparton (and Jarrod moved back there when 16) and Dayne Beams and Marcus Ashcroft, though often celebrated as Queenslanders, are actually Victorians (their families moved north before they’d reached a school age.)

And what of the lesser lights?

Callum Mills’s granddad played in the WAFL, Lewis Roberts-Thomson’s dad for Sandringham and David Armitage’s AFL ‘lovin father steered him nurturingly (sic) towards a Sherrin.

Need more examples to satisfy you there’s a trend? Okay: David Hales was born in Tassie and Ben Hudson in Fitzroy, while Brad Miller’s dad played for South, Tom Green’s granddad is a Richmond great and Brisbane raised Ben Keays is so ‘kicks, marks and handballs’, he has three generations of VFL footballers in his DNA (and I could go on and on, but haven’t I already?)

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Of the players that count as converts (and thus, the true yield of the missionary work), the standouts are Kieran Jack and Isaac Heeney.

Jack’s conversion is the AFL’s greatest coup, of course. Proselytizing the son of a Rugby League great was like pulling off an ‘Ocean’s Eleven’ heist, and I dare say, would have had the suits at AFL house rejoicing the way the Vatican would if they’d ordained a descendant of the Ayatollah Khomeini!

Isaac Heeney was equally a triumph for Aussie rules. He is the first player recruited from the Hunter region and his bleached-blonde-surfie looks were the perfect poster boy advertisement for footy in bleached-blonde-friendly Sydney.

(Photo by Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images)

Marquee types Kurt Tippett and Charlie Dixon are also converts, though, the truth is, basketball was their first love and they only tried their luck with AFL late in their teens. Other notable players include Greg Stafford, Mark ‘The Fridge’ Roberts and Mitch Hahn.

I understand they all found Aussie Rules without any pressure from their parents. And then there’s the best of the current crop: Dane Rampe, Aliir Aliir, Jarrad Witts, Tom Hickey, Jack Bowes and Errol Gulden.

Again, I understand they didn’t have parents who dragged them kicking and screaming to the SCG or Gabba, when they’d have rather have been hanging out with their mates at Panthers stadium or Lang Park.

So, yeah, it’s a mixed bag. On the one hand, it’s a big victory to have recruited so many players from the ‘heathen’ states, but on the other hand, the Victorian lineage of most tempers the notion of vigorous growth.

Indeed, based on these results, it’s fair to say that the best thing footy has got going for it up north is not its bewitching appeal, it’s the many Victorians who’ve relocated up there to escape Melbourne’s s**thouse weather!

Soberingly, Aussie rules isn’t expanding as rapidly as it likes to make out. It’s more a case that the establishment of teams in regions with a sizable Victorian diaspora has helped to keep their interest in footy on life support, and therefore, bump up the growth numbers where they settled artificially.

But still there’s growth. And when you consider how poorly the NRL has fared on this matter, it’s super impressive.

For all of Melbourne Storm’s incredible, incredible success, it has resulted in only 700 registered players currently in Victoria. Worse, only 200 of those 700 are juniors. That’s right, only 200 kids play organised rugby league in Victoria.

Mahe Fonua is one of the few true Melbourne Storm juniors (Photo by Paul Keevil/Action Plus via Getty Images)

That is the true return on League’s 20+ year investment in Victoria: exciting 200 kids to cauliflower a schoolmates ears!

Moreover, you would expect that a great many of those kids aren’t playing league because they’ve been inspired by Storm’s incredible achievements, but because they’ve been pressured to do so by their league loving ex-Sydneysider/Queenslander/Pacific Islander parents.

Undoubtedly that would be factor, so it’s even *less* than 200. In the meantime, the AFL has absolutely mopped the floor with the NRL on participation. If you believe the AFL’s marketing dept, hundreds of thousands play footy in the northern states, but more reliable sources have it around 50,000 in Queensland (men and women) and in the tens of thousands in NSW.

It’s an impressive set of metrics no matter who you believe, but again, it would be tempered by the ex-Victorian component in the numbers, you’d feel.

The Storm’s abysmal failure to gain traction with kids in its hometown has an even more damning granular detail, too: of the six Victorian born players who have gone on to play in the NRL, only one player came through Melbourne’s junior comps.

The other five left Victoria at a young age (and I understand only one of them played in a junior comp before leaving) so, yeah, that’s it: one born and bred Victorian. One!

And when you temper that metric the way I have when evaluating Aussie rules true growth, it’s zip, because it hardly counts as a conversion when the players parents emigrated to Victoria from League loving Tonga.

Melbourne Storm academy product Gareth Widdop. (Photo by Chris Hyde/Getty Images)

League’s Victorian junior comps have actually done a little better than developing one player for the NRL. A handful of players who settled in Victoria with their families at a young age have progressed through the feeder systems.

Some had already played junior league in the places they were born and some had not, but there aren’t any celebrated instances of a family moving to Victoria specifically because of a love of Aussie rules, only to be disappointed by one of their kids, who spurned their parents hopes, and said, “Screw Gary Ablett, I wanna play League!”

The Storm and its partners trumpet that they spent 23 million promoting and developing the game in Victoria between 2005 and 2012 (and heaven knows how much more since then), while the AFL has pumped hundreds of millions into doing the same in the east side of the ‘Barrasi Line’ you’d venture, and what has been the return on their investments?

A small and underwhelming crop of converts for the AFL and nothing, nada, zilch for league. But, of course, that’s just being cynical, because conversions are just one aspect of growth. The Suns, Giants and Storm have created hundreds of jobs for players, coaches and support staff.

That’s growth too. As is maintaining the interest of fans who have moved to a state where their code previously didn’t have a presence. If not for the Brisbane Bears, Michael Voss and Nick Reiwoldt may very well have been lost to another sport, so it’s reasonable to factor the retention of interest as a component of growth as well.

As it also is when considering the development of the McVeigh brothers and their like. If not for being able to take their Sydney born and bred kids to watch the Swans, ex-Melbournian dads might struggle to foster their interest in AFL, so having a presence in that case translates to the retention of intergenerational growth, does it not?

The AFL crows that participation, memberships and TV ratings are all going through the roof in Queensland and New South Wales, so maybe it is premature to dismiss footy’s capacity to win over rusted-on fans of other sports. Maybe it takes 50 years to do so? Maybe it takes a 100?

The world’s slowest growing tree is Canada’s ‘White Cedar’, which grows 4 inches every 155 years, and perhaps the AFL’s expansion lines up with the rings of that tree’s trunk?

Who knows? But maybe it will never happen? Maybe footy will always remain a niche sport in Australia’s north-east, having a presence for the sole purpose of servicing ex-Victorians? I feel all the indicators point to the latter outcome.

I’ll continue to applaud GWS. Part of their *raison d’etre* is to stem the lost ground in Canberra to the Brumbies and Raiders, and that’s worthy of my approval.

Nick Daicos of Collingwood competes for the ball with GWS’ Lachie Whitfield. (Photo by Mark Kolbe/Getty Images)

But I won’t make the mistake again of applauding them for the notion that they are doing missionary work. For one, that would be misspent energy, because I’m certain they will fail. But it’s more the case that I have now have mixed feelings about wanting them to succeed.

While I want the traditional support for Footy stabilized in the ACT, I don’t want to encroach into league’s territory. ‘The Golden Rule’ has suddenly sprung to mind for me on this matter.

I mean, if it would horrify me to walk into ‘Young and Jackson’ on a Friday night and see everyone huddled around the screens watching the Storm (and it would!), then shouldn’t I have empathy for a League-loving Sydneysider experiencing the same horror if the Giants dominated all the pub screens in Penrith?

Like, I don’t want my sports culture eroded, so shouldn’t I do to others what I would have them do to me?

But as troubled as I now am philosophically about footy and league’s turf war, I’m way more concerned about the damage it’s doing back home.

When I’d drunk the AFL’s Kool-Aid, I believed that striving to win over Western Sydney would make footy stronger. But I’ve since observed that it has made it weaker.

My mates, the people in my circles, the vast majority of callers I come across on talkback radio, resent GWS. They complain that the AFL hyperextends itself in favoring them and it’s hard to argue otherwise when you have Gil McLachlan stating publicly that he hopes Stephen Coniglio stays a Giant.

As a one-time supporter of expansion, I reconciled myself with these perceptions of inequality because of my ‘code over club’ position. But I now ask myself, “Is it good for the code if you piss off the majority of fans in the heartland to service a few expats and a trickle of new converts?”

The answer to that, of course, is that it isn’t. Indeed, the disillusionment it causes makes it downright detrimental.

Mick, Craig and my other mates won’t be suffering my naiveté any longer. They won’t hear, “Sacrifices have to be made for the good of the code.”

They won’t be stupefied by, “The next Gary Ablett could come from Penrith.” They won’t ever again have to laugh off, “Toby is misunderstood.”

But if GWS’s presence in the ACT rescues the interest in footy of the next Alex Jesaulenko, well, I’ll be privately jubilant.

Hell, it might even inspire me to torp a hastily purchased Sherrin deep into that school oval in Albion. Even if I do risk coming off a little bit like Mr Stinky.

The Crowd Says:

2023-02-16T10:38:26+00:00

Paul

Roar Rookie


Good article, I enjoyed reading it. I like your logic. I think AFL will always have the infrastructure and the war chest to expand with the long term in mind. I think expansion needs to be a carefully used word though. I think "outpost" is a bit more accurate. Other side of the Barrassi line there are pockets of AFL fans and open minded sports fans whole support a going concern like GWS. I find it more interesting the AFL haven't moved into Tasmania more purposefully. I suspect if the NRL announced a team in Hobart in 2027 the AFL would be ready for 2025! In another expansion relates topic, I read today on the Rugby Union section that of the Wallabies squad who played the All Blacks in Melbourne last year 8 players ( one third of the game day squad) were Melbourne Rebels players or Victorian born. Rugby will never make inroads, not even close to NRL but I thought it was a really interest stat to look at from from a growth perspective in a "outpost" circumstance.

2023-02-14T23:15:55+00:00

Sean

Guest


As a Victorian now living in Brisbane I can say that this article misses the mark. The actual story is not what it would seem. I have witnessed numerous families who've never heard of the sport take it up as their kids have literally stumbled across it, develop a passion and even go along to see the Lions/Suns. A big percentage are female because rugby football is not as accessible to them. But for every one of them there is a jaded footy starved southerner who has adopted a "When in Rome" philosophy and learned to appreciate that there are other sports out there that are played at a global level - not just a competition between a bunch of Melbourne suburbs. You'll find many ex-AFL fans cheering on the Maroons, Wallabies, Socceroos, Matildas, Broncos or Titans and encouraging their kids to take up sports other than AFL (not necessarily rugby either). We're no longer died in the wool fans these days due mainly to the influence of social media. Parents are still kicking Steedens and soccer balls with their kids in the parks here, not Sherrins and that hasn't changed for decades. The AFL would have you believe league and union are dying and people are jumping ship because it such a better product. They'd also have you believe that after a couple of sessions of Auskick kids will become an exclusive fan for life. This couldn't be further from the truth. Yes there are still some ex-AFL diehards. But these days we're spoilt for choice, it is just one of the options for people up here and the brand has been significantly diluted. Quite a few kids dabble in a bit of Aussie Rules but don't take it seriously. If they're not super amazing at it drop out or play rugby codes, soccer or basketball - and vice versa. There are no slaves to the hype machine here, no exclusive brand loyalty, just a bunch of fair weather supporters for which AFL has limited mindshare. When the Lions and Suns aren't performing AFL pretty much disappears completely from the radar. As the article hints, the challenge isn't just to stay relevant as a sport but to actually keep the expats engaged. Continued growth in expat dominated Brisbane and the Gold Coast isn't guaranteed just by having a team with that name. Female footy is keeping many a club alive here that can't drum up enough male players. The best bet is to establish a stable foothold for the sport at the grassroots elsewhere like Cairns, the Sunshine Coast, Ipswich, Townsville and Mackay, hoping like hell that a few locals there warm to the game. Otherwise it will return to the obscurity from which it came.

2023-02-14T05:38:34+00:00

Col in Paradise

Roar Rookie


One thing limiting soccer's growth is the huge registration fee's they now have..their Administration is forcing huge rego fee's on the young teams to fund their own executives and mates...one of my boys went and played a few years and it was a joke what they charge and demand compared to AFL and NRL..which he went back to with his brothers mainly due to the stuck up officials, parents and so called teams elite best players bias..he tension on the sieline by the protective parents was unbearable!...anyway all my boys played AFL - some NRL - but mainly support AFL and watch NRL- this generation is different - I came from a League background - played it till I got suspended for a good period of time and went across and played Aussie Rules with some Victorian born mates up here in NSW/ACT and ended up loving it - made the Junior Rep side toured SA and VIC - won a premiership in the local comp (their first and only for 30 plus years till they won another in any grade.!...my Dad and League relo's were spewing and giving me heaps as a traitor (and other names)...but love both games - and let my boys and girls' choose to follow what they want...we go to games of both comps throughout the year as a get together..

2023-02-14T05:15:28+00:00

Col in Paradise

Roar Rookie


Yep agree - and also agree re woke - as soon as someone throws that in I consider they have lost the argument or are not worth listening to - its a dumb new word I just don't get except that the people using it generally don't have a clue - the word of last resort!

2023-02-12T00:30:36+00:00

Tallon

Guest


You obviously have never ventured far from your front door then. The passion is just as great if not better.

2023-02-12T00:28:37+00:00

Tallon

Guest


Exactly: The NRL had 140 million total viewers last year compared to the AFL's 133 million. Absolutely school you on TV ratings and also sit a respectable 20th in worldwide league attendance of any sport. Oh, and we have a world cup and internationals actually played in our sport, not a made up hybrid sport :thumbup:

2023-02-12T00:24:16+00:00

Tallon

Guest


As someone who has grown up in the Riverina, I can confirm that it is not AFL heartland. The Southern Riverina is, but most of the Riverina is Rugby League country. Same with the ACT.

2023-02-07T04:41:56+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


......part time work on weekends.....

2023-02-07T04:41:10+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


#Randy "Melbourne is a great place but it is so desperate for recognition and global fame." actually not really; remember - Melbourne held the Olympics 44 years before Sydney (it was Sydney that was desperate to match Melbourne and say to the world "Look at me"). Melbourne gets annual global attention via the 2 weeks of the AO Tennis and the F1 GP weekend. What's Sydney get?? (other than over promotion from the Australian Tourism Commission ads but given ScoMo used to work there.......go figure!!). Melbourne is also comfortably the Theatre capital of Australia.........Harry Potter and the Cursed child will end its run and ISN'T heading anywhere else. Melbourne was the only logical spot. Just no contest. The MCG.......no matter what Sydney does and tries........just can't match it. re which city originated Australian Football as a hypothetical - the reality is that no matter what - massive colonial rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney. The irony of you assertion of Melbourne being desperate for recognition and global fame is that.............to the contrary - Melbourne is very content to be in a world of its own. Very comfortable in its own skin........wrapped with the AFL. Sydney by contrast - - talks down that very element and talks up the 'world game' and pretty well why we see the A-League, Rugby League and Union all unable to get by just on Australia clubs - but feel the need to incorporate the 'international' dimension.......of NZ.......groan!!

2023-02-06T22:30:22+00:00

Naughty's Headband

Roar Rookie


Yep. Imagine how much money they're sucking out of local footy to fund their expansions. I don't know what it's like in the city but the vast majority of country clubs already have juniors and seniors. I think that's really important for the future players of clubs and the overall club culture. The AFL have already reduced pathways - unless they're really lucky the players have to come from private schools now and not be a risk of giving the AFL a bad image. There's so many good players missed because the AFL clubs don't send recruiters to local clubs anymore; if they're not in the TAC program they're not going to play in the AFL.

2023-02-06T22:26:49+00:00

AJ73

Roar Rookie


Thanks for that explanation MM. I had noticed the categories had changed, now it makes sense - the higher the figures, the better for the sport.

2023-02-06T05:35:27+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


The whol thing about some of the stats people proclaim - you'll often hear soccer officials talk about the "2 million Australians playing the game every week".......it's simply false. Their near to 2 million participants is a lot of smoke and mirrors and has potential triple counting from the perspective of school/club/indoor. So that's even as registered participants. Aust Footy generally doesn't have the 'indoor' potential but again - between school and club; or for off season 'social' comps plus club. Covid gave everyone a bit hit -so the best apples with apples comparisons were around 2018/2019 annual reports. In 2019 they claimed 1,957,552 participation compared in 2015 to 1,188,911. Gee - the administrators must be getting huge bonuses for growing by over 770,000 over just 4 years!! How did they do it?? From 2015 to 2019 'outdoor participation' grew by......a tick under 44,000. Schools - comps and programs up by about 135,000. Bewdy. Ticks there. However - the old "Tournaments and Events" got replaced by "Community Events & Promotional Experiences"; and that grew by 387,000. Throw in about 73,000 coaches, volunteers and Refs and another 41,000 in Futsal..........bang - - got the growth. btw - wondering how many unique participants in 'tournament events' who aren't counted elsewhere?? I did a roughly apples with apples comparison - AFL vs FFA across (juniors/intro; youth, senior/vets, and after that we had AFL 592K vs FFA 527K; then putting in the school Comps (not programs but comps) - and AFL 921K vs FFA 815K. Now - the big challenge coming out of Covid is for the AFL to reclaim - I suspect for the AFL in growth markets there's a huge danger of lost connection. I do feel the AFL has to really paddle hard under the surface just to appear stable in the water.

2023-02-06T00:56:05+00:00

AJ73

Roar Rookie


"Softer sports"? They may not hit as "hard" in AFL as they do in the Rugby code, but with no offside you can tackle/bump a player from any direction not just from the front. No code is "soft" as you like to put it, they all have their "hard hits".

2023-02-06T00:52:34+00:00

AJ73

Roar Rookie


That's really interesting - wasn't cricket caught out with something like that a couple of years ago? My daughter plays/played cricket in at least 4 different competitions. If I remember correctly that meant she was counted 4 times, not the once. So the same thing could be going on. The other interesting thing you mentioned was counting Coaches and Referees, they are participants, but they are there for the game to go ahead, they are not actually playing. All numbers are rubbery I suppose and no one will ever believe all of them.

2023-02-06T00:34:26+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


Junior soccer numbers are interesting. The FFA (as it was) - via published annual reports and participation reports bundle all their juniors/intro program under the single banner of "MiniRoos". The AFL has separate numbers for Auskick and also for Juniors. Then there's the contrasting of youth and senior participation and looking at gender proportions. It's not that big a gap. What IS clear - for soccer is it's NSW and Nrth-NSW centric. We do know this. Sydney IS the home of soccer in Australia - - and that's arguably great for the AFL because it means niether Soccer or the NRL or 'Rugby' has a super strong 'winning on all metrics' home bastion. What is interesting too - re juniors - is the big numbers for both soccer and AFL relating to school participation. And those numbers are outside of the club numbers - - but get bundled into total participation. The interesting big jump in FFA participation about 6 years ago was they decided to count coaches, refs and volunteers but more than that - they counted "promotional experience" numbers!?!?!? As it is - - FFA also count Futsal.........no chance of doubling up hey? #Apols for still using "FFA".

2023-02-06T00:25:36+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


interesting you mention girls. Soccer had a big leap forward in Australian in the 2000s; mostly via female participation - and that jumped so far ahead of the other footy codes that it might have been thought to be a gap never to be closed. AFL - Australian Football - did close the gap over the last 10 years via............female participation. What that has done has locked in local funding and access to facilities and created far more family friendly environments. It's effectively locking in the future. The contrast of Melbourne to Sydney is that in Melbourne - Australian Football rules all metrics. In Sydney - the NRL rules a couple........sorta......... And Brisbane? That's footballing multicultural.

2023-02-06T00:22:01+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


btw - the AFL did this in metro footy 20 years ago. Remember when the VAFA had to fight to allow that there might still be a pathway from there to the AFL. One thing the AFL does want is to align auskick with junior clubs with senior clubs. Possibly to try to consolidate pathways and also because regarding 'outdoor participation'; that wonderful game of soccer doesn't have either a stand alone intro program or junior program - it all falls under the one banner of "MiniRoos" so they use that combined number whichever way suits and they claim that MiniRoos is effectively a 'competition'. I suspect the AFL want's Auskick to be more 'club' identifiable and combat soccer in that statistical domain.

2023-02-06T00:17:54+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


the main issues for country footy in Victoria is the issues impacting country communities. The decline in many country communities is what is killing certain regions re country footy. Major issue - reduced and aging rural populations. Not much the AFL can do about that?!?! Yes there are some administrative oddities and the points/transfer system seemingly used to extort outcomes - however overall - it's a broader socio-economic demographics issue.

2023-02-06T00:13:05+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


these guys don't understand the big difference between 'average viewers' for a shorter program against over all viewer hours; peak viewers and unique viewers.

2023-02-06T00:06:04+00:00

Munro Mike

Roar Rookie


for anyone pushing TV ratings - need to keep mindful of context (precious few people understand this). Running only with 'average viewers' will invariably benefit the shorter run program. Even on 'average viewers'; if you then factor in 'viewer hours' - the AFL wins hands down on that front. If peak and unique viewers is taken into account - then again the AFL wins. So.........what we often see here is a bit akin to the anti vaxers or climate change deniers - pushing arguments they don't even understand with a context that doesn't exist.

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