'Eye-opening': How discarded Tah could come back to haunt old side after stint with new England coach

I question your personal judgement on this point. That is correct. I am tired of your continuous bagging of DR for everything including what he was not employed for. Before i responded here you had posted half a dozen comments on thos article blaming him for not identifying Horton's weakness and putting people on to having it resolved. You fail to respond to any point or question i put to you on the matter. And I am not putting words in your mouth... you said it was on him that Horton's shortcomings werent addressed. It is you who seek to minimse DR's achievements with the Wallaby squad as broken as it is every time an opportunity presents itself. You have made it plsin over months that you hold DR in low regard.. do i really need to go back through all your posts. I dont defend DR against all things, but I do defend him over things which I think are ludicrous in the same way I woukd Foster. I have made my thoughts clear on both coaches and it is not what you seem to assume.

chivas - you constantly make it personal and have a go at me using emotional terms and labels. Apart from my comment re a r.a.n.t (since I was fed up with the attacks) I have kept it on the topic , played the ball and not the man. You also keep putting words in my mouth that I have not said, I have never said DR is inept nor can't coach, but you seem to not accept any failings or shortcomings in his coaching, but defend him on everything, maybe because he was you beloved chiefs coach.

No Pete. The point you are will fully missing and the question you fail to answer… is show me an international coach who has corrected a players deficiency. You think NZ hasn’t got wayward throwing hookers or kickers that aren’t accurate from the tee. The average punter can see a players short-comings. It was you who said it should have been addressed under DR’s watch and it was on him… I am simply calling bs. I expect the lower level coaches to address skills. I expect the player themselves to seek someone to assist them if they feel they are struggling with an aspect of the game… you seem to think it is on the wallaby coaches to identify and address the individual flaws and all the player has to go away and work on the fix. The simple fact is you can’t identify a single coach who has fixed fundamental flaws, but you seem perpetually willing to hang it around DR’s neck. Also what you don’t seem capable of understanding is the fact that it is on the player to improve their skill, not the head coach directing his coaching team to work with individuals to do this.. Did Horton ask for help or is he just another victim of DR. It is you who bagged out DR for not addressing this shortcoming, yet you seem to know nothing about the matter, just that Horton got some tips from an overseas coach when playing a lower grade. You assume DR is inept and can’t coach, but that is not the feedback except from the voices in your head. That Horton worked out with another coach his shortcomings is great for him. His throwing didn’t look a lot different to me on Saturday. So you have twisted a story about Horton getting help to another cheap shot at a departed Wallaby coach… regardless of how little you actually know about what DR contributed to player development. He is one person Pete and if you cared to look outside your own prejudiced outlook, you would be able to appreciate and respect what he in fact did bring to the table. As I say plenty of others a lot closer and lot more qualified than you do. But it’s me having a rant. I am merely responding to your nonsense.

No I never said that the wallaby coach should dedicate themselves to fixing the flaws. I said that was on the player. Yes coaches at lower levels should have identified it, and in NZ they would have. Aust is woeful in this regard especially for forward skills. See I don't have a personal dislike of anything NZ at all. This is probably 1 reason DR didn't think to look at such issues since it wouldn't happen in NZ. He should have realized the standard of basic skill coaching in aust is far worse, than than NZ, NH, and SA in regards to coaching these skills. Now just because the lower levels didn't identify it there is no reason the wallaby coaches couldn't, especially when throwing accuracy is an issue for the wallabies. I expect EJ's team to identify technique issues , but once again on the player to fix it. Latu is another that had to go o/s to have technical issues identified in his throwing and that is why they got better. It should not take much time for wallaby assistant coaches to identify that technique is wrong, also it would help if they had the time to also tell the player how they could fix it. You keep missing the point time and again. I will re iterate I expect the player to fix the skill issues, not the wallaby coach, I do expect the wallaby coaches to identify core technique issues so the player knows what to work on and how to fix it. However keep going about points I never made to you can keep having your little r.a.n.t.

Apparently it is everyone else who has to fix Australian rugby players lack of skill. Such a victim mentality. No wonder they are running 7th.

Pete, did you think this through or just let your personal dislike or anything NZ kick in. Firstly not a single other coach or coaching team in all of Australia could identify and sort it out. This implies the Wallaby coach and team is fixing up deficiencies in a player. So when a player can’t pass, kick, jump, run.. don’t worry the wallaby coach will identify it and have his coaching team dedicate themselves to correcting your flaws… and if the head coach of the national team doesn’t guide you on to how to be the no. one player, identify your flaws and have his team tell you exactly what to do to correct them.. well that’s on him. What a load of simplistic garbage. Secondly have you watched Horton throw… in any game and compared how he is throwing now and then. I doubt you could tell the difference. And then compare to other throwing styles. And have you ever thrown a ball into a line out.. just curious. Because I don’t think you know what functional strength is and how it applies or the first thing about throwing a ball into a line out. Plenty of styles and aapproaches. Also how many Australian hookers can throw a ball in accurately to a line out… but hey the national coach and his team should sort it out. Have you told Eddie yet, or are you holding him to a different set of standards. Finally, can you tell me national coaches who have corrected a Hookers line out throwing.. or a halfback only passing well in one direction or a first five that can’t kick. But hey what a useless coach DR is hey Pete. The funny thing is he has been far more successful and is far more widely respected than you give him credit for. I know that only your opinion matters to you when you choose to judge someone’s abilities, because all these other elite players and coaches are clearly inferior and don’t know what they are talking about.

Yes, that is my point too.

No I think the national coach should identify major core skill issues , what is wrong, not fix it , that is on the player. The point was Horton didn't even know the technique he was using was just wrong.

Chivas - DR had specialist forward coaches. Yes I expect them to identify major technique issues, like only using your arms to throw and not your core and legs as well. Note I said recognise, not correct, that would be on the player. It takes little time to identify the issue. So yes DR also was part of the problem as were the coaches at the waratahs. The point was Horton did not even know that was the issue until he got to england. If DR's assistants did their jobs / knew their jobs they would identify major core skill issues like this for every single player. It doesn't take long.

Yes, that's what I can find too when I look up why he moved. Can't find anything about him not wanting to be signed by Australian sides as Tim suggests. Not convinced Tim is right on this one at all. Am happy to be corrected if anyone can actually cite something though.

Ainsley is from Perth but one of his parents came from southern NZ and he has close family there (his Dad was an AB front rower). He did say it was nice to play in a district where he had lots of family and he is eligible for both countries.

Maybe the other hookers should also head overseas for throwing...

Been few and far between good oz derbies outside of tahs vs Brumbies match but this match was also good one and despite the score line thought force were good but of course tahs better.

Some players don't listen to the voices that are trying to help / correct their issues. A different voice comes along and suddenly the same message is perceived as ground breaking. This is so frustrating as a coach but to be honest it's more about the player than the coach. Sometimes it's the "higher authority" thing, that is a bigger name with more perceived value. I'm glad he worked out his technical issues but I'm 100% sure he had received the same coaching before he went O/S but did not take it on board. This is so common it's ridiculous.

"Tweeners" definately have a real challenge the higher they rise as the specialists become so much better in the core roles. They're great at lower levels because they give good value but in reality their ceiling is limited. Or at least should be limited!

"Commentators"

Fish heads mate.

Which makes no sense considering it’s size and potential.. not to mention a lot of kiwis and SA who call WA home.

Still handing out VCs? Gees they must have captured a rather lot of Russian bronze guns in Crimea all those years ago...unless of course they cheat these days.

Yes mate I know. They single handedly forced up the price of Chardonnay!