New chairman Peter Beattie and his Australian Rugby League Commissioners will have to answer the question of what the game’s highest honour is sooner than later.
The Commission never had that problem while Rugby League Week owned the Immortal concept since its inauguration in 1986, but the magazine folded last year, hence the problem.
Currently there are eight Immortals over 32 years compared to 35 Hall of Famers since its inauguration in 2002 – but no new inductees since 2007.
Fair to say both honours have been shamefully treated, and neglected. That neglection must be fixed, but only after ground rules for Immortal status are dramatically changed.
The original rules stated selectors must have seen any contenders play, they had to be retired for five years, and only on-field rugby league skills were to be considered. Off-field misdemeanours to be ignored.
All three original rules must be scrapped so only those who are a credit to the code become Immortals, and that includes coaches like Wayne Bennett, Jack Gibson, Tim Sheens, and Craig Bellamy when they retire.
And there’s one addition: future Immortals must be on a regular basis, not haphazard as they were under the Rugby League Week watch.
Four were inducted in 1986 – Clive Churchill, Reg Gasnier, Johnny Raper, and Bobby Fulton. But 18 years elapsed before Graeme Langlands and Wally Lewis became Immortals.
Another four years before Artie Beetson joined, and nine more years before Andrew Johns became the eight Immortal.
(AAP Image/Tracey Nearmy)
NRL boss Todd Greenberg has flagged the ninth Immortal will surface sometime this year. But why only one?
Not recognising Ken Irvine and Norm Provan in the inaugural group, nor since, were major mistakes. Other genuine contenders like Ron Coote, Mal Meninga, Peter Sterling, Brad Fittler and Darren Lockyer have been overlooked as well.
And by turning back the clock for selection, the likes of Dally Messenger, an original in 1908, Frank Burge from 1911-1927, and Dave Brown from 1930 to 1941 deserve recognition.
That’s why there must be multiple selections this year – to pick up the slack. The Commission can be more selective once the slack has been dealt with.
My pick is for the Immortals to be the highest honour in the 13-man code. That’s taking nothing whatsoever away from the Hall of Fame, except there will be more of them than Immortals, but still a prestige and coveted honour.
The current Hall of Famers, and their year of induction
2002 – Clive Churchill (1947-57), Reg Gasnier (1959-1968), Johnny Raper (1957-1970). Graeme Langlands (1963-1976), Bobby Fulton (1966-1978), and Wally Lewis (1978-1992).
2003 – Dally Messenger (1908-1912), Dave Brown (1930-1941), Wally Prigg (1929-1939), Keith Holman (1949-1961), Artie Beetson (1966-1981), and Mal Meninga (1979-1994).
2004 – Harry Bath (1940-1959), Norm Provan (1951-1965), Ken Irvine (1958-1973), Harold Horder (1912-1924), Frank Burge (1911-1927), and Vic Hey (1933-1949).
2005 – Jimmy Craig (1915-1930), Chris McKivat (1910-1912), Duncan Thompson (1912-1925), Brian Bevan (1942-1962), Brian Carlson (1951-1962), and Ron Coote (1964-1978).
2006 – George Treweek (1926-1934), Ken Kearney (1948-1961), Sandy Pearce (1908-1921), Charles Fraser (1910-1920), Duncan Hall (1945-1957), and Peter Sterling (1978-1992).
2007 – Arthur Holloway (1908-1920), Tom Gorman (1919-1931), Joe Pearce (1929-1940), Harry Wells (1951-1961) and Keith Barnes (1955-1968).
Big Daddy
Guest
When they start to put some coaches into the hall of fame that sounds good. Next thing you know they will start to put officials which is not a bad idea if it was someone like Peter Moore. You wouldn't feed the current lot. Also how many guys in country rugby league have contributed so much for so little.
steveng
Roar Rookie
To me, the immortal list (established in 1981) should be the pinnacle players and should be updated every decade! The list so far consist of: Clive Churchill 1981, Bob Fulton 1981, Reg Gasnier 1981, Johnny Raper 1981, Graeme Langlands 1999, Wally Lewis 1999, Arthur Beetson 2003 and Andrew Johns 2012, which is fine but, it doesn’t really signify all the immortals that should be on that list. If you look at the current list, Reg Gasnier, Johnny Raper and Graeme Langlands are from the same era (there is too many of them from that era) yes and sure, they were outstanding players but, the list should only consist of one player of that era and from 1 decade, that they played in. The list should have consisted and should have been updated only every decade and should have consisted 7 prior immortals from previous decades from 1981. Thus, the list so far should consist of 11 immortal players, which takes it back to 1908, when RL started as a proper comp! That's my opinion.
Emcie
Roar Guru
He's back! Again... Survived England in one piece? Or was that someone else?
Jay C
Roar Guru
Obviously Hall of Fame. Immortals is a joke of a concept now. I think Immortals should not have been considered until they had retired for 20+ years.But it is ruined now, so just bin it. Also I'm not sure if this is allowed but I've got 4 spots left in a SC Draft tonight @ 8pm Sydney time. Drafty in here (401440). Pretty competitive hopefully.
Chris
Roar Pro
Exactly my point Peter. And those players good enough to be even mentioned in conversations about the next Immortal should join a group given almost as much credit as the Immortals above them- the Hall of Fame that is hopefully given more recognition than it currently is.
BigJ
Roar Guru
The only real example of a Hall Of Fame that I can think of that I done even half properly is the WWE HAll of fame, laugh if you will but the NRL can learn a lot for the WWE example. Once a year say at that Dally M one to maybe three players can be inducted into the hall of fame with every five years a new immortal of maybe even ten, the Immortal staus should be the player of a generation, Baby boomers Lewis, Gen x Lockyer (sorry Joey but I cant ever condone drug taking in anyway, you should be wiped off the face of rugby league forever, never to be mentioned again) GEN y Smith. The debate is currently you should be next, I think that Provan should be next then Meninga, the Lockyer,Smith should be inducted around 2035.
Steve
Guest
The original RLW judging panel would not consider players that they had not seen play. That being the case, shouldn't the elected immortals drop out as they move outside the living memory of those judges currently doing the "selecting". I think "immortal" was the wrong terminology, it should have been "Legend" as someone or something can attain legendary status without current eyewitness accounts. Don't forget the great Chook Fraser was still attending games regularly up until his death in the 80's and he still regarded Messenger as the greatest he had ever seen.
Big Daddy
Guest
Team word immortal means one that never does. We could put Dracula into the contest. Being serious Ken Irvine to me has to be a shoe in. And to Duncan the previous poster here's a blast from the past Angelo Crema.
Duncan Smith
Guest
I'd say John Rheinberger for sure. Rheinberger played only one first grade game, for Easts in the 1975 grand final, which they won 38-0. That was the last game he played for them, and with him out of the side, it took Easts another 27 years to win the title. Easts, with Rheinberger in the side, averages a 38 point winning margin. Without him, their average plummets. Not even Cameron Smith has that much influence over a game. The only other player I'd consider is probably Phil Duke.
Cadfael
Roar Guru
The Immortals were chosen by the now defunct RLW. The Hall of Famers chosen by the ARL. Now it would appear both lots of inductees are to be chosen by the same group. My issue with The immortals is that the names coming up are those of the last two decades. Meninga, Lockyer, Fittler, Sterling. All great but what about the likes of Provan, Irvine, Carlson, Coote. No mention because their playing careers are long gone. Drop The Immortals and work on the Hall of Fame.
Mushi
Guest
I'd make it minimum 10 years retired before being considered for an immortal spot, 5 for HOF. Let pre war players be considered for immortality and then have the next immortal vote have 3 pre war "make up" selections added. Do hall of fame every year and immortal once every 6-8 years with a threshold vote. If you do the immortal votes too frequently you'll break it
Peter Phelps
Guest
Chris, all sorts of names are bandied about as being future immortals. Trouble is, there are more players running around on the paddock today that are slam dunk immortals (according to fans) than have ever been awarded previously in the history of the game. Something has got to give and setting the rules around the lists is the first thing.
Peter Phelps
Guest
Both title's need a massive overall with clearly defined rules and criteria. Once that is completed, and only when that is completed, the NRL needs to sit down with the history books and go through every player that has played the game in the last 50 years and decided who should have which title. That would finally put this to bed and give players something else to aim for.
Chris
Roar Pro
If players like Meninga or Lockyer aren't remembered as Immortals, then at the very least make the Hall of Fame a bigger deal than it already is and induct players like Thurston, Smith, Slater, Inglis, Fittler, Langer, George Rose...
At work
Roar Rookie
Agree that Immortal status is higher than Hall of fame. At each years DallyM they should induct a player into the hall of fame, but the immortal status should only be where necessary. But I agree we need to do a lot of catching up on both.
bigbaz
Roar Guru
So it's 11years since we bothered with our hall of fame , that's pretty impressive. That a player and coach like Harry Bath cannot be considered for immortality makes the hall of fame more important, if we can be bothered.