Are the all-conquering Kangaroos on the decline?

The supporters I mentioned have more than a fair idea, of what they are actually supporting.The club has been around for nigh on 50 years. Many travelled from overseas and Interstate.Some of these supporters had lost parents and relatives who were passionate supporters in the past.they spelt this out in media interviews print or electronic The people involved are well aware of the tradition involving the club, the many near death experiences when it nearly went to the wall.I dare say many AFL people are aware of the traditions of their clubs. The passion on the G/F day was well evident, a week prior and for some time after. You obviously have little idea, about the trickle down effect to the local community . Well publicised in the local Shire newspaper and even the Sydney dailies.This club as no doubt others are involved in many of the local local communities ,hospitals and charities.And indeed grassroots.That's where you are incorrect. I turn a blind eye to nothing Republican FHS.And I'm full aware of your AFL allegiance. I've been through the "mill" with my club.For decades not a few years. What is lacking in pro sport is loyalty.That is plainly obvious. If you choose to live in a world of nostalgia ,which has passed us all by that's your choice. I'm a realist, accepting the fact professionalism, has taken over all the amateur sports.We live in a society whether for good or bad, that revolves around the dollar/euro. Blame Television which has opened the market to the masses.This provides the opportunity for marketing and promotion and the funding for sports. In fact the irony of it all ,a few of these so called amateur sports of the past, had little trouble paying players under the table so to speak.Yet they openly boasted "for love not money",the hypocrisy was stifling.So please don't preach to me the traditional amateur ideal, which was openly and covertly abused.

.........Nz'ers are heading home in droves for good reason. They are a more creative and innovative nation and socially more sophisticated and egalitarian, so akin to Scandi nations and far more collectively united than we are. They have not been afforded the luxury of a bust and boom, putting their economic eggs in a solitary basket so to speak as we have, the quarry that sells itself short with absolutely zero thought of future funding for future generations. This attitude is epitomised by our complete feckless attitude towards climate change et el. which is why our 'droughts' are becoming more frequent and more sustained. This is also related to an abject lack of tribalism in some ways. We are a nation that knows and is motivated by the price of everything but the value of naught, completely void of a national sentience born out by our disparate federation. As far as making excuses for the state of League in this country, surely the Super League war chestnut is just that. Enough said.

........sad to say, but it doesn't exist in professional sport, thats the truth of the matter. Those 50 - 60K impressionable Cronulla Sutherland consumers, simply don't scrutinise what they are actually supporting. They are deluded and carrying the memory of a time when their clubs did indeed espouse such virtue. When the almighty dollar is the foundation that determines the culture of any sport then all that virtue is rendered an illusion, concocted by marketeers for market forces and fed to the feckless impressionable masses. I love Australian Footy and witnessed the madness of this years finals season including the GF, a grand show and contest it was but thats all it was, nothing more. I would never invest any emotion or passion akin to support for any of these plastic entities because they don't invest in us anymore, they are all about themselves, the motto line, television empires and as such they are metaphors for society to be sure. Any organic connection to community, local GR, loyalty of players to 'the organisation', doesn't trickle down as the bankers would have us believe, so tribal DNA today is a lie that you and I are free to live knowingly, but its still a lie. The same goes for national entities in the world of sport that is now so homogenised or as some prefer to say 'global' - where allegiances are so blurred, like how many citizenships one can glean to leverage international opportunities - and not just in sport. One of my best mates who has lived more than half his life in Glasgow is a Celtic tragic, while acknowledging that his 'club' hasn't had a Scot playing in the green and white strip for god knows how long now. That said he still derives much pleasure, especially basking in the old rivalry v Rangers, as they keep the tradition alive. The irony here is that the athletes on both sides have little to no knowledge of the history that is decades of bitter contest between these two clubs. You may choose to continue to turn a blind eye to the lie x coder but I choose to call it out for all its cynical hard sell that it is something more........

Think you missed my point.All I was suggesting no pro competition in sports, then amateur sports would exist in spades. Tribalism exists in amateur and professional sports.I played ru for 5 years in this country at high school. If you believe tribalism dose;t exist in pro sports such as rugby league, then the approx 50,000-60,000 Shark's supporters who were dressed up and passionate in the 2016 Grand Final did not exist.The ones who travelled from as far as Europe ,the States,SE Asia. The ones who follow the various NRL clubs week after week.Tribalism remains, loyalty I agree is appear thin, that happens in pro sport. Passion I completely disagree with you.Seeing adults crying after a Grand Final win after 50 years.You obviously are not an NRL member to make a comment like that.

"NZ economy is far more resilient and potentially stronger than ours". Are you serious mate? I agree NZ punches well above its weight. The first part is based on a small country population wise and area wise, that does not have the droughts that our country receives, nor the bushfires, nor the transport issues and costs. The second part where this country has a huge resource base, untapped potential in the northern areas for agriculture, fish farming is all ahead of us. When you consider NZ's population is about the size of Sydney or a tad less.The problems for a city of Sydney can be illuminated. "If they don't support League or any other code culturally".Who is compromising? NZ has shown to have a large Tongan populations that not another culture ,that needs to be respected? Having the Warriors in the NRL does zilch to water down Maori or PI culture in NZ. I have always maintained grassroots is a priority in any sport ,in any country. Rugby League had a Super league war that tore the code asunder,I attended meetings re the decision to go to SL.That did nothing to assist grassroots here. In 2018 participation numbers for registered rl players (tackle) in this country has grown, despite a fall off in the older age groups.Womens rl is actually booming year on year. And in NZ after the RLWC 2017 three has been a strong growth in the numbers of children playing the game according to Newshub 20/10, that includes women and children.I'm also aware numbers go up and down in areas.Women's numbers have doubled in the last 2/3 years. So i disagree with your last para.

.......yes to remaining amateur since professionalism has completely rendered tribalism, loyalty, passion an illusion. We need to ask ourselves why we get so worked up over these sanitised contrived plastic 'clubs', 'national entities' et el, since they don't actually exist. Those lines of tribal demarcation are no more.......

.......not convinced by your analogy with SANZAR, which holds an international agenda as opposed to an Australian DOMESTIC ONE. We will have to agree to disagree. I believe ours is a philosophical, ethical difference in seeing the world, possibly generational. The thrust of my sentiment remains however, that NZ of all nations, should not be afforded domestic status in any of our codes et el and if they must, lets then be consistently benevolent to include real developing nations i.e. PI nations and PNG, for starters. NZ s economy is far more resilient and potentially stronger than ours, I mean they trump us at all and sundry, socially, environmentally, economically these days so the stereotype of NZ that we seem to hold to still in this country, is outdated and as such any leg up is simply a bonus for them as they laugh all the way to the bank at our expedience. They have the resources, nous, talent et el to achieve the desired results without our assistance across most sports mark my words. If they don't support League or any other code culturally, then why should we compromise our Domestic resources, intel, nous GR DNA et el for some non existent market? we do the same for their Soccer, Basketball while they continue to lobby to be included in our Domestic Cricket as well. This sort of 'growth' is really about the vested commercial television interests, those media empires with insatiable market appetites. It is moot as to whether this top down model has benefited the development of any game truth be told, while I would go so far as to say it has dumbed them down beyond recognition culturally as well as compromising the International status, certainly of League in this country. Really, Australian League doesn't seem to have benefited domestically or at the GR, compared to NZ where the code is after all little more than a boutique sport.

Rugby union is assisting sovereign nations within SANZAR, then competing country against country.If they covet their status so well, pull out of SANZAR and keep it within NZ. NPC is not the NRL .The fact having a Kiwi team in the NRL not only assists that country's player development, but provides a decent dollar value on Tv revenue.I understand the NPC is popular. The sporting landscape within Australia is far different to that of NZ.So is the economy. We have 4 major football code's scrambling for a slice of everything here.not so in NZ. With due respect unless you know the individuals playing ATT, you cannot tell what pride they feel in putting on and playing in the jersey.Ask Cameron Smith whether he has pride in the Kangaroos jersey? Or the Turbo Bros? People show emotion different ways.Not everyone outwardly cries at funerals. All nations are motivated by costs as are all professional sporting codes.Else amateurism for the major comps within codes would exist in spades.Without the huge revenue the ABS engender, they may have lost more players to French Rugby.Or should they have remained amateur to show their pride?

That's the beauty of it ,the cream rises to the top here, whether they be Caucasian or PIs or Maoris,and there is talent available in the South Pacific nations. It's got little to do with population or status , but players who really want to play ,not just doing so to make up there numbers. Plus there are Fijians and PNG players who are looking at opportunities. These players by their very nature are suited to the rugby codes.Funny GWS scouted Folau to encourage those guys to play.I'm sure if he'd been a resounding success, they'd continue and you'd be OK with that. If there is talent available ,they want to play, don't ignore it.It's a code that welcomes all backgrounds,Canberra have a player of Turkish descent. Still didn't stop the NRL having a record number of young kids registering to play in 2018, despite the difficulties retaining players at the older age levels . Great Britain used to beat the Kangaroos in the past, with a far smaller player base and profile. It's quality not quantity. "The code in strife surely",based on PI and NZ players being involved? Think you're reading off another code's hymn sheet.NRL has its share of issues, but there are a stack of players in State Cups awaiting the opportunity to step up.Eg Drinkwater who is not PI or Maori for the Storm.

NZ being afforded membership of our 'DOMESTIC' leagues and assuming a pseudo state privilege has assisted in fostering their national sporting pedigree for years, across codes. Personally I am opposed to assisting a sovereign nation in this respect because it is at the expense of our own national and international status in respective codes. NZ would never go down this path by including Australia in their NPC as they covet their status in Union too highly, its so much about their cultural identity, which we tend to undervalue. This is evidenced by NZ'ers playing with far more pride than Australia and especially v Australia. We are a nation that is motivated by cost rather than value these days.......

The code must be mediocre at the GR here, evidenced by all the scouting of PI's and Maoris by the NRL. If they can't convincingly defeat a nation i.e. NZ, population just 5 mill, where the game is less than niche, then the code is in strife here surely. Conversely, the Wallabies never threaten NZ in Union and while Union lacks status here, League commands even less profile in NZ......

Imagine how good the kiwis, Tonga etc would be if we had a system whereby you had to play for the country you were born in no matter what. Born in Tonga but left at 3 months, too bad , no kangaroos jersey for you. To help ease the transition the Arl could come up with a fairer test match pay system. Bit hard to ask blokes to be loyal to their home country when the other teams get paid 5 times more per test.

Decline what decline. Klwis were generally better tatically on the night and played with a lot of enthusiasm. That gave them momentum and once a team has that momentum it is hard to stop. That starts in the forwards getting ascendancy. Your retiring spine was the best and their replacements will face comparisons that will be difficult. That game wasnt lost in the spine players it was lost in the forwards. I expect a lot of passion from Tonga but Aussie will get there if the forwards have taken stock.

There is one solution: Make Fittler Australian coach - case closed!

Exactly right , this inexperienced Aussie line up is a nonsense excuse ... The kiwi backline was greener than Spring grass... Plus Roger TVS, Their best player and backline leader was missing , balancing the absence of GI. Their forward dominance was total... And that will have to be fixed quickly to stop Tonga. Mal will at least have no complacency at training this week. He has had a very easy ride for years as QLD and Kangaroos coach with great players and even greater rusted-on combinations at his disposal... this will be a test for him to craft something new.

Way too early to say we're in decline. We hardly had the ball in the first half. To get within 2 points after losing one of our starting halves, losing 4 future immortals etc isn't something to slash our wrist about. Tonga could be on the end of a spanking this Saturday night.

Most sports are not 'truly international' apart from Soccer and Basketball.

Disagree. Australia's defence kept us in the game. Our D made it a 2 point game. (and some weird bunker decisions)

Oh Dear, "Sound the alarm bells. This could be the decline of the dominant Australia Kangaroos. Yes, I know they were missing a plethora of number-one options. I’m under no illusion that the Australian side have far superior talent for their selectors to pick from. Everything about the Kangaroos has screamed ‘excellence’ – their coaching staff, the calibre of players to choose from, their history – It’s a dream for most countries". A game that only has 2 (more like 1.5) major leagues in the world......NRL= 1 and Super League = 1 (or maybe only 1/2) and we want to hyperventilate about a mickey mouse international match where those who played were the ones who didn't pull their hands down quick enough. I love watching Rugby League but let's all realise that it's not really ever going to be a truly international game.................don't get me started on the NATIONAL RUGBY LEAGUE otherwise known as the NRL. How in heaven's name can they keep calling it National when it's anything but played across the nation.

The 2 point margin is not an accurate reflection though. Had Smith been correctly awarded the try in the 74th minute, the score would have been 32-12. I doubt Australia would have made a comeback from that point and the margin of victory to the kiwis could have been 20 points.