And so Brisbane Broncos and South Sydney Rabbitohs did battle at ANZ Stadium Thursday night, and after a long (albeit ironically short) week talking about the two overlords of the respective squadrons, kick-off was a relief.
For it was good to be talking about and consuming an actual game of footy rather than rehashing #coachwars, or whatever they called it, it wasn’t that nor anything to do with a gate.
But it was a Thing, you’ll agree.
And thus the narrative all week’s been Wayne Bennett ‘versus’ Anthony Seibold, the coaches who swapped jobs in the off-season.
We’ve also had Des Hasler coaching against the Bulldogs at Brookvale.
Last week was Ivan Cleary ‘winning the power struggle’ over Phil Gould.
Phil Gould (Photo by Brendon Thorne/Getty Images)
According to Fox Sports’ preview thing, “this fixture would’ve been circled quickly by Wayne Bennett and Anthony Siebold after their coaching swap in December”.
And while it’s amusing to think of both men getting out a calendar and a fat red texta and really quickly making a circle on the date, it’s… I dunno.
I don’t think they did that.
I also don’t think it’s that interesting, that two blokes who had each other’s job last year would be coaching against one another.
It’s a thread, maybe. An angle. Same as Darius Boyd’s 300th. And Tom Dearden’s first.
I know, for you, and for many, the coaches ‘butting heads’ may be very interesting. Perhaps really interesting.
Perhaps, according to various media metrics of ratings and clicks and tweets and views and likes and even purchases of old-school hard-copy journals, the league people of our great southern land are consuming Bennett versus Seibold in sufficient numbers for media folk to continue yapping about it.
Or maybe they’re just feeding off each other. Someone says a thing, everyone else runs off it.
It happens.
It’s also because Jack de Belin’s court case remains in limbo, and there’s nothing much else to yap about.
The players give media nothing. They’re trained thus by communications experts. It’s self-defeating and very rugby league for rugby league’s major actors to be so boring in their pre-match publicity stints in front of the sponsors’ wallpaper.
But there you go. I give up.
And here we are, talking about coaches.
And I, you may have gleaned this already, don’t really give a stuff.
Whole thing leaves me cold. The whole merry-go-round thingy did. Ivan Cleary, Michael Maguire… there’s another one, I’ll remember it in a few paragraphs… they got new jobs.
(AAP Image/Brendan Esposito)
Coaches get jobs, get the flick, that’s the circle of life. The players don’t care.
And I don’t care either. Because coaches are not that important.
They are important. Just not that important.
Their importance is over-rated. They get too much credit for wins, too much discredit for losses. And if there are lots of losses, they always sack the coach.
But the best coaches, as one chief executive told me, are the best recruiters.
And if the coach gets the best players, he’s then the best coach. Matter of time.
Depends how long the club will wait.
Some people’s (Ricky Stuart – five years and 232 days with the Raiders) circles of life are longer than others (John Morris, 90 days with the Sharks and the other coach on the merry-go-round after it spat out Shane Flanagan because he didn’t believe the NRL’s rules really applied to him).
Consider Craig Bellamy. One of the greats, right? For sure. And maybe he even is the best coach. There’s something in the madman’s methods that gets the most of his cattle.
But it’s more to do with said cattle.
Bellamy’s winning percentage as a coach is 60-odd per cent, close to two-thirds. And across 433 games, that’s whack, as some might say.
But if you were to ask old mate stats man David Middleton to extrapolate some statistics across Bellamy’s 16 seasons – as I once did in a piece defending the record of my man Sticky Stuart – and you gave Middo the brief: tell me Bellamy’s record from 2006 (i.e. post Matt Orford) and without two of the big three in the XVII, then Middo would tell you Bellamy’s win percentage in those games is 25 per cent.
Twenty-five per cent. A quarter.
Because it’s players who most affect the outcome of games.
Coaches, of course, have an affect. They decide who’s going to play, for a start. Coaches decide who’s going to play and in which positions.
They can decide to blood an 18-year-old halfback against the Burgess brothers, the equivalent of blooding an 18-year-old against the Burgess brothers.
Coaches can run out two running halfbacks, a slow hooker and a fullback who needs a Zimmer frame.
Yes, coaches decide on game plans, but if they’re smart they’ll do it in concert with their best players, as Bellamy’s been smart enough to do with the greatest players of our time.
But in the actual 80 minutes of the game, outside of various observations the players are too stuffed to really do much about – and ‘take the two’ – well, coaches’ effect is negligible.
Players are the major players. And there are 17 of them on a team. And there’s an attack guy, defence guy, stats guy, run-out-the-water-and-messages guy, physio, doctor, little man in the rabbit suit, and all the rest.
And there is the coach.
And he’s not that interesting.
Taree Raider
Guest
Albo, 100% totally correct!
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
I'm not sure where the 67% figure comes from because he hasn't achieved that at any club . He's running at 62% overall. Robinson has won 2 titles in the last 6 years at 65% while Wayne has won 2 in the last 13 years. Hasler has won two titles in the last 11 years and a total of 6 grand finals compared to Waynes 3. Bennetts record at rep level is not bad but nothing special , all the losses seem to be left out of the equation and for some reason any near misses are almost counted as wins. A professor did a study of the top coaches a while back and was surprised that he didn't rate more highly. I can clearly recall the figures showing that Warren Ryan had a better record. He rated Bozo and Bennett as having similar records. Just like Tim Sheens , take Coaches away from a stellar long term roster and they are right back in the pack.
Gray-Hand
Roar Rookie
40/20 since the early 2000’s, Bennett has won 2 premierships in the last 13 years, lost a grand final in extra time, won state of origin series against the strongest ever NSW team, brought significant an immediate improvement to the Dragons, Broncos, New Zealand and England. If the Broncos hadn’t been knocked out of the finals by a Storm team that was more than a million dollars over the cap, odds are that he would have won another premiership too. His record of success and the demonstrated improvement he brings to his teams is undoubted. No other modern coach comes close to emulating his success across multiple teams at club, provincial and international level. His win loss ratio at club level since leaving the Broncos at the end of 2008 is 67%. By comparison, the only other coach of the modern era who is ever compared to Bennett, Craig Bellamy has a career win/loss ratio of 68%.
Papi Smurf
Roar Rookie
It's hard enough to get a team up for the challenge of the NRL week after week as it is without the loss of team morale and commitment due to players and the coach not being paid. It's hard to motivate a group of elite athletes when the players are doing their job but club management fail them consistently and there is NO other example of this at other clubs or in the history of the game. The simple fact mate is that professional athletes don't play for free and their performance on the field was the only avenue left to them to send a message to the Knights management. Even when they did get paid the players ran into the same problems again and again which eroded any confidence or loyalty they had for the Knights. It's easy to look at things in black and white but without context results can be deceiving. Look at the Melbourne Storm who finished 16th and got the wooden spoon in 2010. A wooden spoon is an ironic achievement award to recognise the team and coach who underperformed and was the worst team for that season. However, when you look at that result in it's context, you realise that as a punative response for cheating the salary cap the Storm were stripped of 8 competition points from 4 straight wins up to round 4 and disqualified from being awarded any further competition points for the rest of the season. After going undefeated the Storm then lost their next two games whether in protest or as a result of feeling gutted about the prospect of a playing out a dead season with 22 games still left to play who can say. The Storm went on to finish the 2010 season with 14 wins and the 3rd highest positive points differential and with the 2nd best defensive record behind the minor premiers. That result would have seen the Storm finish 5th ahead of the Warriors. So in retrospect the 2010 season was a failure for the Storm management and the club as a whole but the players and coach still finished 5th on THEIR efforts. The difference between the Storm in 2010 and the Bennett coached Knights is that the Storm got paid. THAT is a BIG difference to a professional athlete DPS. It's all about CONTEXT.
DP Schaefer
Roar Rookie
Good points Papi, but cut the cake however you like, Bennett's time at Knights was less than impressive. He's the best coach in the game by a good distance (except maybe Bellamy) and with or without the Tinkler effect, he didn't get the results he could have.
DP Schaefer
Roar Rookie
That was incredibly harsh.. I choked back a chuckle, but wow.. that was harsh.
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
Disco Des could be the first Manly coach to win three titles and get a statue in the middle of the Corso.
Zavjalova
Roar Rookie
Na disagree. The buildup was not only good for this fixture, but good for rugby league. Don’t take sporting theatre away for no good reason.
Insider
Roar Rookie
Duncan, did you keep any tissues mate, I think your gonna need em
Pickett
Guest
@ 40/20 You're picking 2 instances of failure against a backdrop of consistent success. I'm no apologist for Bennett, but you can't deny he and other coaches make a massive difference. Even your team, which is pretty much the same as last year, has been transformed by the Dazzler.
Pickett
Guest
@ Superspud Don't speak too soon. Papa Serf is just getting his tonsils (or keyboards) warmed up.
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
Bennett lost a series for the first time in 27 years as coach of Australia in a finals score which equaled the biggest loss in 98 years. His English team were almost beaten by Tonga in the world cup and was coaching the Broncos when they were flogged by Saints in the finals last year when hot favorites. His winning rate at the Knights always comes with excuses. His record since he had the stellar Broncos roster is not much different to many other coaches. Plenty of teams almost beat other teams but unless you do it doesn't mean much.
Pickett
Guest
Anyone who thinks the coach doesn't make a difference knows nothing about the game (or sport in general). Wayne Bennett took the Kiwis to World Cup Victory in 2008 against a nova hot Kangaroo side. Last year he almost did the same. In fact an ankle tap on a runaway English winger kept the score at 6-0 to Aus. The winger would have scored near the posts, 6-6 and who knows what would have happened. In 1966, Easts lost every single game, but they won the wooden spoon. In 1967, Jack Gibson, with the same squad took them to the semi finals where they lost a tight preliminary final to Canterbury. Coaches don't make a difference? Gimme a break...
Insider
Roar Rookie
Maybe
afistfulofdollars
Roar Rookie
I'd say that's a testament to Smith's ability as opposed to Bellamy's inability. I think you'll find that when arguably the best player of all time is missing from your team - you'll struggle.
Papi Smurf
Roar Rookie
I still miss Settlement Cove Lagoon in Redcliffe, Spinnakers restaurant at Woody Point and taking the boat out to Moreton Bay and Bribie Island. Good times, good times. ;-)
elvis
Roar Rookie
I quite like that statistic. Since 2010 Grand finals Cronulla 1 Broncos 1 Warriors 1 Souths 1 St George 1 NQ 2 Bulldogs 2 Manly 2 Easts 3 Melbourne 4
Ja ja klazo
Guest
And let's take a look at this decade. Sure the Raiders haven't done much, but nor have the Broncos. So you shouldn't be talking down your nose to fans of certain clubs. The superiority complex of Bronx fans is hilarious. As the Broncos slip further and further into mediocrity the rest of the NRL will be happy to just sit back and laugh.
Ja ja klazo
Guest
Just took a quick look at the ladder. Looks like the Bronx are on par with the Titans.
matth
Roar Guru
It’s a fair point which leads to the question of, given those numbers would a second team in Brisbane actually add to overall crowds or just take a portion away from Brisbane? I honestly don’t know