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Papi Smurf

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Joined February 2019

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“One of the things the Roosters to best is their player development”

But Glenn as players develop they tend to expect more $$$’s. At least they do at clubs who don’t pass cash around in brown paper bags.

Souths had 5 South Sydney juniors in their 2014 premiership winning side (Sutton, Reynolds, Walker, AJ, and Clark), 6 if you include Merritt from earlier in the season. Now THAT is development!

Including your definition of “development” Souths also developed Luke Keary, Sam Burgess, George Burgess, Tom Burgess, Apisai Koroisau, Kirisome Auva’a, Dave Tyrrell, Kyle Turner and Chris McQueen. None of whom had played a game in the NRL before coming to Souths (although granted, Sam was already an international).

The Rabbitohs also have 5 South Sydney juniors in their current side (AJ, Campbell Graham, Adam Reynolds, John Sutton and Cameron Murray). Meanwhile the Roosters only have Victor Radley (and perhaps Boyd Cordner and Latrell Mitchell if you count a 16 year old and 17 year old who both came from Taree and did not come through the Roosters junior development system). Oh, and I forgot Nat Butcher who is a South Sydney junior. I guess it all depends on how broad your definition of “development” is? 😉

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

My understanding is that Todd Greenberg is still waiting on orders from “Uncle Nick” to that end. LOL

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Have you blown a circuit “toaster”? You remember the multitude of times I have posted supporting evidence and urls from multiple media sources that confirm these salaries both here and specifically on ZT, surely?

But that was not my issue with “Guesties”. At least you and I and so many others are accountable for our words and our positions due to the history of our profiles, “Guesties” are not. Instead they play a game of guerrilla warfare attacking and retreating not having a history that can be examined and not receiving notifications if their attacks are addressed or challenged. What are they hiding Milton? Why do they hide in the shadows?

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

When players and coaches don’t get paid that’s a valid excuse for not performing. Not many people would keep showing up to their jobs week after week if they weren’t getting paid much less perform at their best. It isn’t called a professional sport for nothing JA.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

So rosters are as important in that respect as coaching ability. Something Anthony Seibold is finding out the hard way.

I agree, no coach could turn those teams into a team capable of winning a premiership. Therefore a coach’s success also has a lot to do with the squad at their disposal. To that end it makes you wonder how there can be such a dispartity between clubs in terms of the talent on their rosters when all clubs operate on the same salary cap, doesn’t it?

At this point the supporters of clubs who are unfairly advantaged usually hide behind the excuse that some players are prepared to play for less in order to win a premiership. The same club that is just $50K short of having 4 players on $1 mill a season each!

Perhaps we would be calling Nathan Brown or Trent Barrett “one of the great coaches of the modern era” if THEY had been as fortunate as Trent Robinson in the club that employes them?

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Gould almost got to the end of his SECOND 5-year plan… 9 yeara!

Phil Gould reportedly set for Panthers exit in the coming days

“But he cared about making Penrith great”

# Make Penrith Great Again!

A nine-year five-year plan, no premierships and more losses than wins! Bahahahahahaha

Phil Gould reportedly set for Panthers exit in the coming days

The following FOX Sports headline pretty much says it all.

Gus’s on-field legacy: A nine-year five-year plan, no titles and more losses than wins

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/phil-goulds-legacy-at-panthers-a-nineyear-fiveyear-plan-no-premierships-and-more-losses-than-wins/news-story/0bc66afdd131c37a84b3f021246fd477

Phil Gould reportedly set for Panthers exit in the coming days

I tried to blow the cover off this “Watergate-style” but the truth has been suppressed. See my above post and the following amendment…

This comment has been edited The Roar’s moderators..

The Truth IS out there! 😉

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

I’m waiting for Matty Johns to get back to me on that db. 😉 You can look up the online stories on that yourself if you like? I am not going to do the work for you. I have posted this on numerous forums and numerous sites in the last 4 years already.

I posted a few additional bread crumbs under “Guestie” Rob just now. There may even be more to follow. 😉

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Dear “Guestie”, figures published online via various media outlets include:

$1.1 mill (Tedesco)
$1 mill (Cronk)
$1 mill (Crichton) * for 2019 only thereafter 850K a season
$850K (Cordner)
$650K (Friend)
$650K (Keary)
$500 (Morris)
$500K (Hall)
__________
$6,250,000

That leaves just $3,350,000 from a base salary cap in 2019 of $9.6 mill to distribute between 22 remaining players in a compulsory 30 man squad. That comes to $152,272 each and with a compulsory minimum wage set by the NRL of $105,000 that is already flying close to the wind especially considering the apparent market value of the following players should be much more than double or even triple that amount considering their rep experience:

Mitchell (2 Tests, 3 Origins) – market value $880K – $1.2 mill
Manu (3 Tests) – market value $500K – $750K
JWH (22 Tests)
Tupou (12 Tests, 4 Origins)
Taukeiaho (8 Tests)
Liu (9 Tests)
Radley (in line for Origin and one of the hottest young talents on the market!)

Mitchell, Manu and Radley are overdue for contract upgrades and this will create further pressure on the Roosters salary cap (assuming they have one). As current internationals both Latrell Mitchell and Joseph Manu should be on upwards of $450K at least! They could demand well in excess of this on the open market (see above).

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Do you want me to go into detail and break down the figures and my argument or are you just happy to agree to disagree?

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

At present the ONLY two obvious changes to the incumbent defending Origin champions should be Luke Keary for James Maloney, who is passed it IMO and who is down on form. Also, Cameron Murray for JDB, who is currently suspended yet “without the presumption of guilt” (good luck figuring that out).

There are still question marks around Turbo’s current injury and fitness but if he is fit he is in. There should be no other changes to a winning side IMO.

LISTEN: The changes the NSW Blues must make for Origin 1

“The “salary cap sombrero” accusation emanates purely from jealousy”

Jealousy that the Roosters are manifestly and materially advantaged by their exploitation of the salary cap.

Cronk (38 Tests, 22 Origins)
Tedesco (8 Tests, 7 Origins)
Cordner (19 Tests, 12 Origins)
Morris (18 Tests, 15 Origins)
Hall (38 Tests)
Keary (2 Tests)
Mitchell (2 Tests, 3 Origins)
Manu (3 Tests)
Crichton (3 Origins)
JWH (22 Tests)
Tupou (12 Tests, 4 Origins)
Taukeiaho (8 Tests)
Liu (9 Tests)
Friend (1 Test)

Total experience: 180 Tests and 66 Origins!

In the real world, where the above experience should be reflected in the true market value of each player, HOW is such a gross disparity of talent allowed to be hoarded by just one club that claims to be operating under the SAME salary cap as the other 15 clubs?

This comment has been edited The Roar’s moderators..

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

“The Storm finished 16th under Bellamy. It doesn’t make him less of a coach.”

TB that is surprisingly disingenuous of you. You of course realise that in 2010 when the Storm finished 16th as part of the penalties imposed on them for breaching the salary cap they had their existing 8 competition points deducted taking them to ZERO points and they were barred from receiving premiership points for the rest of the season.

The Storm finished the 2010 season with 14 wins and 10 losses and the 3rd highest points differential in the competition. In reality they would have finished 5th that year ahead of the Warriors.

Tsk tsk TB. For shame, for shame trying to pull the wool over our eyes like that.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

“Roosters have the same salary cap as everybody else – except for Souths, thanks to the recent Greg Inglis decision/exemption”

Congrats “Guestie”, THAT was one of the funniest and most absurd comments I have EVER read on this site. It is truly delusional, disingenuous and transparently an attempt at misdirection.

“This season the Roosters are the 6th most penalised team with 41. In comparison Souths are 13th with 33 penalties conceded. Which team is getting an easy ride?”

Is this yet another attempt at humour? You DO realise with ONLY 8 extra penalties over 6 rounds that comes to just 1.3 extra penalties per game? That’s hardly conclusive evidence of a clear advantage now is it?

What is more relevant is the spoiling tactics the Roosters have pioneered in defending their line where they are prepared to give away multiple penalties when defending their line so they can reset their defensive line and nullify and atracking advantage. You may want to look at forward passes that are let go to benefit the Roosters, which often result in tries (like from Tupou to Mitchell against the Storm). The Roosters also gain a secondary advantage when they are benefited by passes that are called forward against their opposition that are fair passes which often lead to fair tries that are denied.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Did you say no other coach in the world would win a premiership with the rosters at the Roosters, the Storm and the Broncos Australian/SOO rep side premiership winning teams? Seriously?

Also, why is it that mostly “Guest” profiles without a traceable history or proof of consistency or credibility seem to be the ones that mostly challenge my comments? It’s becoming a pattern. My track record is there for all to see but theirs isn’t. It feels a little like guerrilla tactics to me. Establish a valid profile and stand by your record like many of us here do already.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

This is like the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance TB. Everyone knows who did it and that a crime was committed but the hard evidence is literally that, buried under too much concrete to allow for the truth to ever come to light.

Examine YOUR Bulldogs who have only recently come under salary cap scrutiny and had to shed players. Now look at the Bulldogs squad compared to that of the Roosters and examine the true market value of each squad member commensurate with their state or international rep experience and tell me, is there a level playing field between those two clubs?

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

How does ANY club fit THREE marquee players into their team in the SAME year without significant loss? Case in point, the Roosters in 2013 (SBW, Jennings, Maloney)? The team already had a host of international and state rep talent and it was no coincidence that they won the premiership that year and most of the minor premierships from that period.

Even Matty Johns proved that, even given conservative estimates, the Roosters were massively over the salary cap. Not just his opinion but that of another club official entrusted with balancing the salary cap for another club and who looked at the true market value of that squad.

The Roosters then did the same thing in 2018 signing TWO marquee players in James Tedesco $1.1 mill and Cooper Cronk $1 mill while re-signing Boyd Corder on $850K, Jake Friend on $650K and Luke Keary on $650K. They then added a further $2 mill to their cap in 2019 signing Angus Crichton on $1 mill, Brett Morris on $500K and Ryan Hall on $500K.

When one club has such a material advantage over all the others and can combine a bottomless pit of money with an invisible salary cap ceiling is it any wonder that they should be successful? It would be a far greater shock if they were not.

It’s bad enough that the Roosters are allowed to cheat their way to success without having their supporters gloat about it as if they were competing on a level playing field. I assure you that the supporters of all the other 15 clubs are not fooled by this in the slightest.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

Souths needed a 3rd referee like Cam Smith on their team to get the refs to call a warning after the 3rd repeat penalty infringement. LOL

Eight talking points from NRL Round 6

“The Bulldogs v Souths game was pretty grim”

Perhaps for you TB. But other than the fact that Souths were robbed of an opportunity to boost their points differential, I loved it! LOL

Eight talking points from NRL Round 6

“The Rabbitohs… have only played one good game this season. It’s a scary thing to say, given they are five and one”

Hey Scott, have I mentioned that Souths’ ONLY loss this year was by ONE point in golden point after Reynolds missed 3 conversions and a field goal to put Souths in that position? 😉

Eight talking points from NRL Round 6

And you would be blind or seriously clueless to think Robinson could have the same success at another club without a massive salary cap advantage and sympathetic refereeing. Or do you think he could take the Titans, the Warriors or the Bulldogs to a premiership in the next few years if he changes clubs now and had to rely on their existing rosters?

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

What the Roosters and Robinson do is clearly above… the salary cap. ANY coach could coach THAT team full of state and international rep talent to success.

If you want an example of the difference experience and rep talent can make to a coach’s success look no further than Anthony Seibold.

Trent Robinson is one of the great coaches of the modern era

How long until the Broncos ask Wayne to come back I wonder? The Broncos have proven they have no problems approaching coaches still under contract only 7 rounds into the season so watch out all NRL clubs if the Broncos get desperate and Seibold’s “dream job” that has become a nightmare is pulled from under him like a trap door at the gallows!

The Bulldogs won't be wooden spoon winners