No one person is bigger than the game

gatesy, that is by far the best commentary i have read and i have read a lot from all over the MSM to blogs. Your point of live and let live is the crucial point, i think i have read something from the bible : judge not least you be judged and let who is without sin cast the first stone. all this defence of Folua right to free speech ignores the consequences, with rights come responsibly's, and yes you can say what you like, however everyone else is also free to respond to your statement and when you sign a contract and give undertakings to not breech them and then do so, you are an arrogant fool, or so blinded by your hubris you can no longer see the truth, you made your choice now suck it up.

I agree with the sentiment of the article , however I must say that it has all been said before at some stage on this site since the whole sorry saga surfaced. The responses by those who feel Folau has a right to his predjudices under cover of his religion also has a familiarity about it as are the responses of those who feel he doesnt. Alan Jones publically supports him , Clyde Rathbone doesnt. What is a simple case of contractual breach has evolved into a divisive situation both in The Rugby World and between society and indeed societies especially those in the Pacific rim. I hope Folau did not set out to do this deliberately. His actions however strongly suggest some premeditation on his part.

Gatesy, So you think Izzy is guilty of a High grade offence.? Given that Beale, Slipper and Hunt all scored low to intermediate grade offences? And you don’t think Izzy wasn’t trying to save souls from hell, rather than sending them there.? I’m glad you have some Christian values.

Hi Fionn, ''Stalin trained to be a priest in younger life, and most current scholarship notes in the darkest times of the Great Patriotic War again turned to Christianity. Hitler’s quotes, too, indicate he was probably religious until his death too.'' I think you are wrong on both counts.

aussierad Thanks. Good interview. Cheers KP

Glenn, this 33 minutes interview with Nick Farr Jones on Izzy confirms what we already know. Rivetting, honest, sad at times, and courageous. https://soundcloud.com/user-410956050?fbclid=IwAR13Dc4PDYpOkMJKpU1P9Xwc9WAw9eEcfPIuHNnTRWUIsrRWQ_zp8ShR-qs

KP This 33 minutes interview of Nick Farr Jones might give you insight https://soundcloud.com/user-410956050?fbclid=IwAR13Dc4PDYpOkMJKpU1P9Xwc9WAw9eEcfPIuHNnTRWUIsrRWQ_zp8ShR-qs

Gatesy, thank you for your considered and thoughtful post. It seems to me that your criticism of Folau's posts is that he has compromised the peace and harmony that formerly had been intact. Granted, freedom of beliefs and freedom from oppression of ones own beliefs form a basis of democratic free societies. However, if Folau believed that his God wished him to post those messages, is he not free to excercise that belief and follow it? I believe he is and suggest that this explains his actions. The upshot of this is a situation of contrasting and conflicting beliefs - yours that ones own beliefs should not be broadcast uninvited and his that this is exactly what should be done if one's God wishes it. I therefore can't see any legal basis for asking him to desist. The 'code of conduct' and contractual alleged breach is a different matter because what is allowable or not is something he signed up for.

Odd reply to my comment.

That actually is totally irrelevant to what I said. The two despots opposing organised Christian churches are competing power structures to the state, is totally different to their personal faith. Stalin trained to be a priest in younger life, and most current scholarship notes in the darkest times of the Great Patriotic War again turned to Christianity. Hitler’s quotes, too, indicate he was probably religious until his death too.

BJ Your post has lots of possibles but nil facts.

Folau isn't in trouble for what his Priest said. The airline and the Government are separate entities. By that logic you should probably stop putting fuel in your car.

That atheist businessman was possibly a Jesuit trained lackey parroting his superiors lies. The truth is that if it weren't for the superstitious prelates and political ambitions of the RCC, western civilisation would have peaked hundreds of years earlier.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of good the Catholic church does, and a great majority involved in achieving these aims are good people. Of course there is the flip side of abuse by clergy and repressive schools were you were forced to write with your right hand and it was the devils work if you used the left. Then you get to the developing country not using contraceptives because that's what the Church says (funny the west ignores those messages) resulting in families having children they can't support, the state can't support and the environment can't support and making the spread of AIDS so much easier.

Fionn, ''I was rolling my eyes at the oft-repeated nonsense of Stalin and Hitler being monsters because they were atheists (fun fact, read more historical scholarship and they were probably both believing Christians over their entire lives'' Mate , you have had a shocker, Stalin. ''The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labour camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited.[1] More than 85,000 Orthodox priests were shot in 1937 alone.[2] Only a twelfth of the Russian Orthodox Church's priests were left functioning in their parishes by 1941.[3] In the period between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox Churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to less than 500.'' Hitler, ''However, Weikart makes it clear that Hitler’s pro-Christian statements were little more than lip service to his churchgoing constituents. Although Hitler was born and raised in historically Catholic Austria, he lost his faith in the Church at an early age. Weikart writes that the young Adolf was a rebellious student who frequently quarreled with his high school religion teacher and often mocked Christianity in class. Weikart’s excellent command of German is on display when he notes that in Mein Kampf and in private correspondence Hitler frequently used the term Pfaffe, a disparaging German term for a priest, to refer to clergymen. Hitler’s long-established anti-clericalism was evident after his rise to power as well, when Goebbels’ propaganda machine portrayed the Catholic priesthood as dominated by sexual perverts (on a side note, does that tactic sound familiar?). In fact, Hitler’s real views on Christianity were so bizarre that they would actually be amusing in their imaginative eccentricity, if not for the fact that they were part of the worldview of a psychopath whose genocidal policies killed 11 million civilians and unleashed the bloodiest war in history. Weikart writes that Hitler, like his favorite philosopher, Nietzsche, disliked Christianity, but admired the figure of Jesus Christ. In Hitler’s view, Jesus himself was a Roman or Greek (Hitler believed that the ancient Greeks and Romans were the precursors of the Nordic “master race”) killed by the perfidious Jews.'' linhttps://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/10/26/was-hitler-a-christian-an-atheist-or-neither/k;

Great well written article.

This thread is disgusting. I was rolling my eyes at the oft-repeated nonsense of Stalin and Hitler being monsters because they were atheists (fun fact, read more historical scholarship and they were probably both believing Christians over their entire lives). But I never thought I would read such ambivalence and even tacit defences of Apartheid on this site. Anyone that has done so should be ashamed of what they wrote.

Timbo (L) ''when Henry VIII told the Vatican to shove it,'' Can you elaborate and explain what you mean by shove it?

Except the convicts aren't just for gay rugby players. Google it.

There seems to be a lot of thickheads trying to run the ARU. They don't respect the players, they refuse to allow freedom of religion, do they understand that freedom of religion is a universal right? You say that "no one person is bigger than the game", but what does religion have to do with sport in the first place? They say to keep religion out of government and keep politics out of sport so what's going on? You are dragging religion into sport yourselves!!? Stop dictating what people can say! The only "breach" has been caused by the ARU itself!!! And I bet you can't even remember which verse in the Bible was even quoted!!!!!