The Australian Football Hall of Fame night is one of the great nights. It is wonderful hearing the old stories and learning about the magnificent history of our indigenous game.
As a St Kilda supporter, it was especially pleasing to see Trevor Barker, one of the four or five most beloved Saints of all time, be inducted. A few years ago we heard great yarns from Neil Roberts when he was inducted.
Here’s the thing though, and this will be wildly unpopular: neither of them should be in there. Very good footballers both of them, but not Hall of Fame worthy.
On Tuesday, the Hall of Fame inducted five players for their playing exploits, while also deservedly inducting Mick Malthouse as a coach. None of those five players had played a game since 1992, meaning all had been eligible for inducted for at least 20 years.
How had their playing careers improved in that time? If they weren’t good enough 20 years ago, what makes them good enough now? I won’t be telling my grandkids I saw Brad Hardie play on a Sunday afternoon at Carrara in a long-sleeve yellow-and-maroon monstrosity of a jumper.
To put it simply, what we have in Australian Football is a Hall of the Very Good. The Hall rewards contextual significance, which is why Barker is in there. It also rewards groundbreakers, which is why Mark Bickley is in there as Adelaide’s only premiership captain.
But Bickley was never All Australian or won a club Best and Fairest. So he was never the best player at his club or in the best 20 players in the league at any one time.
What would an actual Hall of Fame look like? Let’s have a crack.
Since the initial class of 1996, 26 players have been inducted within four or five years of retirement, making them what the Yanks would call a “first-ballot Hall of Famer”. So for these guys, there wasn’t a real argument to ever keeping them out of the Hall of Fame.
Despite what this correspondent thinks about these players, I’m not going to argue about whether these guys should be there.
Add to these two Wayne Carey and Gary Ablett Senior, who were kept out for a while because of off-field behaviour. Then there are the Legends – there’s 28 of them, so we’re now up to 56 legit Hall of Famers.
Of the 1996 original inductees, two adhere to my “first-ballot” rule: Simon Madden and Michael Tuck. So they’re in.
Four members of the AFL’s Team of the Century from 1996 were inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1996 but are not Hall of Fame Legends:
Francis Bourke, Bruce Doull, Keith Greig and Bernie Smith. They’re in, taking our total up to 62.
And now one needs to make subjective decisions about people they may have never seen play. Without wading deeper into a rhetorical quagmire, some of the 1996 inductees I would have no objection to being in the Hall of Fame would be Syd Coventry, Bob Davis, Gary Dempsey, Russell Ebert, Robert Flower, Bernie Quinlan, Jack Regan, Bob Rose, Albert Thurgood, Jack Titus, Ivor Warne-Smith and Doug Wade.
In my opinion, a Hall of Fame should only be for the non-arguables. If there is any serious discussion or doubt, they’re out. By making it more exclusive it would raise it to another level, and render the need for a different class of inductee, the “Legend”, needless.
I’ve been following St Kilda all my life and have been a member for 20 years. There have been some great players run around for the Saints in that time, but in my opinion, only two that are Hall of Fame worthy: Robert Harvey (who is in), and Nick Riewoldt.
When in doubt, leave them out. That would be what I would do, and then it would truly be a Hall of Fame.
Bangkokpussey
Roar Rookie
There should be a separate panel for Brownlow votes.
Doctor Rotcod
Roar Rookie
And Liberatore and Woewodin and Wynd,who wasn't even the best ruckman in 1992.
Bangkokpussey
Roar Rookie
I remember Hardies spectacular looking runs from the midfield but was shocked he won a Brownlow. Same with Cooney.
Birdman
Roar Rookie
Good read, Andrew. I reckon you're on to something with this Very Good thing - it's like the AFL need a marquee event every year to keep the game relevant. I also have doubts about Hardie although he was thrilling to watch for a while there. On the other hand, I wouldn't have Riewoldt down as a cert either.
Nick
Roar Guru
Phone auto-correct...
Andrew Lewis
Roar Rookie
I loved Kenny too.
Nick
Roar Guru
Brendon Goddard and Lenny Hayes were both better than riewoldt. I maintain to this day that if Kenny Hayes was captain in 2010, you'd have beaten Collingwood. He was more the heart, soul and spirit of St Kilda.
Nick
Roar Guru
You just said the pool of HoF people needs to be reduced. You then listed 5 footballers in the HoF who are without question better than riewoldt... and I'm not sure why.
Spanner
Roar Rookie
That's always going to be the case ren, and that is why we show it scant regard.
Pope Paul VII
Roar Rookie
Why indeed? I love the understatement Doc. "Barry Cable, who went well in Melbourne".
Andrew Lewis
Roar Rookie
So in your opinion the Hall of Fame would just be the Team of the Century? I wouldn't have Nick Riewoldt in my AFL Team of the Century, because Wayne Carey would be the CHF. On a matter of accuracy, Riewoldt averaged 2.14 goals per game through his career. But then again, over the course of your posts, you said he wasn't the best stats wise, had stats shown to you, then said stats (marks) didn't matter. Again, on accuracy. St Kilda won 7 finals Riewoldt played in. He was BOG in 5 of them (2004 SF, 2008 SF, 2009 QF, 2009 PF, 2010 PF). Anyway, I'm going to leave it there so you can have the last word if you want it, but the only reason I mentioned him was to stress the point that not many players should make the Hall of Fame, including those from my club.
ren
Guest
The biggest problem with the hall of fame is the overwhelming bias towards Victoria, but that is unfortunately par for course for the AFL.
Nick
Roar Guru
It's only because Channel 7 has a massive hard on for Riewoldt that he got such a glorious ride. Riewoldt was a good player, but he had exceptionally bad games mixed in with good games and was made to look a lot better post-Lyon when the rebuild happened and he stayed at St Kilda. Channel 7 would gleefully overlook his bad games cause he was on their payroll. And yeah - though, I'd say playing under Lyon and living to tell the tale probably does merit a HoF gig!
Doctor Rotcod
Roar Rookie
Why aren’t you talking about Billy Walker OAM of Swan Districts? Inaugural inductee into the Hall of Fame. Kicked 5.5 including the winning goal in the 1961 GF at 19. His first season. A bit like Coniglio’s 4 in the 2010 GF. 4 Sandover Medals and Barry Cable,who went well in Melbourne, had to leave WA to get any silverware because of him.
Cat
Roar Guru
Well it is the hall of Fame not the hall of the very best after all.
Pope Paul VII
Roar Rookie
Dear Spruce Moose (and Roar censors). I originally typed the abbreviated version of Fair "something" of the saveloy. Not Fair call.
Pope Paul VII
Roar Rookie
Fair call Sprucey......poor old St Nick had to play under Ross the Boss. Deserves to be revered in Valhalla for that alone.
Nick
Roar Guru
Ha...was waiting for this. You dont get into the HoF for marking a ball. It's what you do with it next that counts. A forward with a GPG of under 2 shouldn't warrant HoF. To respond to the second last paragraph: Who was better than Gary Ablett Senior on the half flank? No one. Doug Wade? Yeah, at least the equal to his contemporaries. Also has premiership medals around his neck and 1000 goals. Does Riewoldt have that? Noope. Jason Dunstall? Tony Lockett better, yes. Does Riewoldt have 4 premierships, and 3 colemans around his neck? Kevin Bartlett? Did Riewoldt crack 400 games? Did Riewoldt make the top 10 list for goals? Is Riewoldt a time premiership player? John Nicholls - is Riewoldt a premiership player, and premiership coach? I'm genuinely staggered you'd list people who were in the AFL team of the century in comparison to Riewoldt. And these players (possibly excepting) Dunstall - were unequivocally the best in their position in the era they played the game. They were also unequivocally better than Riewoldt. Take off your St Kilda beanie and honestly answer the question: if the AFL team of the century was being re-done, which of the 5 players you mentioned is worse than Riewoldt?
Billbob
Roar Rookie
Bruce moose if I heard that come out your mouth in real life I’d slap ya you spud....lolol Nick Riewoldt not a hall a famer haha watch the footy goose
Andrew Lewis
Roar Rookie
I don't think the "stats" argument washes with Riewoldt. As far as marks are concerned, he was at least 30% better than anyone else during his era who played at least 250 games (Riewoldt played 336). His disappearance in the 2010 finals looked like 19 disposals per game, 8 marks and 2 goals per game. He was also the league MVP in 2004 and should have been in 2009, when he was also clearly the league's Most Valuable Player (not best, different award). And the "league's best player in that position" argument would eliminate the following players from consideration: Doug Wade, Jason Dunstall, Gary Ablett Senior, Kevin Bartlett & John Nicholls. But I suspect the Hardie comment belies your real intent.