Toby Greene’s latest transgression shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
The Greater Western Sydney hot head visited the AFL tribunal this week after there was speculation he eye-gouged Western Bulldogs midfielder Marcus Bontempelli. Greene was cleared with a $7,500 fine but the 25-year-old left AFL headquarters for the 17th time.
Greene has evolved from a one-dimensional ball magnet to someone who can collect the ball, kick goals and set them up.
But the one thing that is stopping Greene from being the next AFL pin-up boy are his on-field and off-field brain fades: the fly-kicks, suspensions, his boisterous acts and bar scuffles.
When asked post-tribunal if he would curb his thuggish ways, Greene said: “I don’t know, we’ll wait and see what happens.”
All of this changes the way we think about Toby Greene, in the same way we thought about Jason Ackermanis’ outspoken persona.
It made it difficult at times to appreciate the good things he did on the field. So, how should we feel about Toby Greene?
Well, here’s a list of pros and cons of Greene to consider for a moment.
Toby Greene of the Giants (Photo by Mark Metcalfe/AFL Photos/via Getty Images)
GOOD: There is a Youtube clip of Toby Greene from 2011 when he was filmed talking about his chances of the AFL draft.
It’s Toby in his most raw version of himself. I think it’s good to remind ourselves that this is a real version of Toby Greene and he wasn’t always cocky or lippy.
In the clip, Jay Clark reveals how Toby’s prowess revolves around stoppages and clearances. Toby says his inside game and reading the play are his best attributes and that Matthew Boyd was someone he modelled his game on.
There’s something endearing about this clip. It makes it hard to have a beef against Greene knowing that this exists.
BAD: Have we latched on to him too early? I mean, are we really ready to call him superstar? My question is: could he be as effective playing for the Blues?
Players like Gary Ablett Jr, Pat Dangerfield and Nat Fyfe took years before they established themselves as superstars. Greene needs more time. He’s a talent, either way, but expectations of Greene are too unrealistic.
GOOD: Greene exploded in the first six rounds of 2017. He kicked 20 goals with bags of 5.2 against the Suns, 4.2 over Power and 4.1 when he took on the Swans. All of those games were wins.
He finished that year with 45 goals, equal with Jeremy Cameron and Jonathan Patton. With these sorts of efforts the hype around Greene is real. He was as good as anybody in the AFL during this block of the 2017 season.
Toby Greene of the Giants (Photo by Michael Dodge/Getty Images)
BAD: Since 2017 Greene has only managed 16 goals (2018) and currently on 25 goals (2019). He’s missed time through injury and suspensions.
In 2017 he missed six weeks through suspensions alone. Just when you think he is stringing together some excellent work, Greene does what Greene is sometimes known for: making bad decisions.
GOOD: During an Eagles match in Round 10, 2017, Greene turned in a stats card of 25 disposals, seven marks and five shots on goal for a return of 2.3 It was one of his better days at the office. What’s better, he was instrumental in the win.
One highlight was when Greene took the ball out of mid air, hand-balled a no-look over his head to Dan Lloyd who kicked a goal that put them in front with eight minutes remaining. The game was miserable to watch but not because of Greene.
BAD: The 2018 fly kick. The fly kick! Not as bad as everyone made out but why do these things tend to follow Greene around like a dark cloud?
If Greene had a clean record, the fly kick would have been seen as careless act that it was. But because of his rap sheet, the question of intent will always be asked.
GOOD: If you look at the league’s small, mid-sized forwards like Eddie Betts and Robbie Gray, Toby Greene is among that group. Since 2017, Betts has kicked 121, Gray 107 and Greene 86. Just imagine if he played more? It’s pretty slick company to be in.
Greene has the ability to bewilder us. In the 2017 Qualifying Final loss against the Crows, Greene was held to 1.0 and 16 meaningless disposals. He was impotent. Then in the 2017 Semi Final 10-goal win against the Eagles, Greene came to the party — 17 touches, 8 marks and 3.1. And his last two games against the Bulldogs in 2019 – one of those a final – he collected a combined tally of 13 inside 50s, five goals, 44 touches.
The Round 22 match was a 61-point loss and he was instrumental during the 58-point Elimination Final win. But these are the stat lines we’ve come to expect of a player that could very well be a consistent elite player of the future.
As much as you want to, you can’t ignore that fact that Greene is on a path to become of the great small forward-midfielders. Think Ackermanis or Alan Didak. Greene is proving to be that guy opposition teams can’t handle. Some have argued we’re debating the “is Greene elite?” too early in his career.
But his forward-mid duality allure means he will always impact games with either goals or assists. Becoming an AFL great is something that is in his control.
Toby Greene’s kicks are dangerous, and should be outlawed. (Photo by Ryan Pierse/Getty Images)
If Greene ever gets to the pinnacle of the AFL, perhaps winning a Brownlow, he would need to cut the stormy persona and reckless acts that means he misses weeks for striking or rough conduct. But we could be looking at Greene’s reality right now: The guy that can win games off his own boot is the same guy that doesn’t know when to pull his head in when things get tense.
I think there’s still a chance that Greene will get even better in the coming years. The key for Greene is to eliminate the lulls, the periods where he looks switched off and of course, suspensions. He needs to look at what the good AFL players do.
The good players don’t have these complexities. They’re leaders. They’re consistent. There’s no real gap between their highs and lows; their lows aren’t thunderous but their highs have overwhelming layers and come finals they peak in value.
The Giants looked good against the Bulldogs last week. And if they beat the Lions and look good then the answer might be Greene.
Welcome to the weird paradox of Greene: just when you think you’ve put Greene into a box where he’s one of those players who will underachieve, he’ll go and do something completely freakish and impossible that it will change your mind.
Yawn of the Dead
Guest
Thanks. You should start your own Red Hand Files! and, yes. blindsided by the nautical twilight yesterday, I youtubed a game from my physical experience, a wet Waverley from 1988, Haws 1 v Demons 2 in Rd 17 with the Dees building. Me from Sydney stuck in Melbourne waiting for the next band. (It's incidental that the Hawks led by 14 goals or thereabouts at halftime). The mesmerising thing was Derm. Hair at full Derm. Body not yet crocked. Elite. Hard. Nasty. Dirty. A wrestler, in a wrestler's game. He and Grinter trying to get that great lethal, legal hit in. Amazingly, Dermott was just back from 6 weeks suspension. In 1988 you had to almost kill someone to get 6 weeks. Commentators mentioned it once as a background fact and then sat in awe of the physicality and, as you say, the menace on display. It's like Zizou's leopard shark. It's out there. You will know it when it eats you.
Yawn of the Dead
Guest
watching Greene is like realising that car coming up behind you on the freeway is, yes, a Monaro or an XT. doesn't matter the condition. just nice to know a few of those things from your past are still going. you wave at the driver and beep the horn and your kids with their headphones in breathe on obliviously. it's not about those relics being "better" or "right" - just that they still are. the world YOU knew isn't completely vanished. i love him. guiltily. even when he cost us the tight game last year at Spotless with the most blatant, premeditated duck, I just loved him even more. would have him at Tigerland, warts and all. especially the warts. he would show Vlastuin and Broad just exactly where "the line" is. probably from the other side of it, but, oh, well. but, boy, the boy can play, the day the Lions pantsed them, he kicked one from 55, the sound was like one of Meg Lanning's cover drives, Sherrins all over Sydney rolled and quivered because they, too, wanted to be kicked JUST THAT WAY.
Yawn of the Dead
Guest
Richmond have only played 3. They are pretty rare for a lot of teams.
Gavan Iacono
Roar Rookie
I think it is the other way round. His occassional delinquency adds to his mystique. The rough diamond. Touched with fire. If you regard footy as a Disney Candy Land where everyone has bright teeth and dull words, then Toby has no place. But if you are sensitive to the menace and gloom of the world, darker natures, the cult of the antihero, Toby is your man. Ecce Homo. Toby Greene.
Don Freo
Roar Rookie
Wow! I didn't expect you to have Crowley and Ballas in a discussion about superstars. Ah well, I'm surprised but would cetainly agree with Ballas. Magnanimous of you TTF.
Floyd Calhoun
Guest
Agreed, BBQ. He’s not right. High time someone sat that boy down & had a good long talk to him.
Graham
Guest
In my opinion Toby Greene is a protected species in the AFL after reading a recent article He should be branded as a Koala A certain Lady AFL Commissioner has taken him under her wing and has publicly stated that he is a completely misunderstood person Maybe this is the reason he has escaped suspension His history of sprigging offenders with his kick and now eye gouging are not considered as a suspension offence although the opposing players have been seriously injured I wonder if other players had done the same infringement would they receive no suspension Monetary penalties are useless as they are only petty cash to players who are very well paid Just wait until Toby Greene is on the receiving end and is injured I bet the judiciary will be a lot harder with the opposing offender Toby Greene’s tactics are worse and eye gouging is a very serious act Why was Toby Greene treated so lenient ? and will a precedent now be set or will it be different for other players
BBQ BILL
Roar Rookie
That was a cute video of a young Toby. We've all got one (or photos) at home somewhere. Then we grow up into something else? He just comes across as an arrogant thug. If it behaves like an arrogant thug and talks like an arrogant thug, then...? Don't care how talented he is, how much a gun, a superstar or a blah-blah. He behaves like a thug. There are many gun players out there who don't behave like a bully-thug. There are many gun players who have a great understanding of sportsmanship, a once revered Aussie quality. Toby seems sadly lacking in this department. That was a gutless dog act on Bont.(no disrespect to Bulldogs)
Raimond
Roar Guru
Richmond’s first interstate finals win was last week, the Crows haven’t won a final interstate since the 1998 GF. Losing these games is the norm.
Raimond
Roar Guru
:laughing:
IAP
Guest
They know that Pumping, they're just trying to deflect. This aren't is about Greene anyway, not Bont.
Bell21
Guest
Lol, I'm a pies supporter and I chuckled at comparing didak to aker - I loved watching didak play but aker was on a whole other level
Pumping Dougie
Roar Guru
I think there's a clear difference between intimidation (Browny) and grub acts - can't recall any player in the game karate kicking the face of an unsuspecting opponent (to name just one example). Browny is a bloke I'd gladly follow into battle on the footy field and back him to the hilt, whereas Greene is someone I'd be ashamed to play with and not bother defending him when the opposition come calling.
The Brazilian
Roar Rookie
Don't think so. We wouldn't have him. The leadership group wouldn't accept him into the club for starters. Doesn't pass the 'good bloke rule'.
Tom
Roar Rookie
Toby Greene is fantastic. He is an out and out star. The guy loves pressure. I also think he gets singled out. This week was a prime example. Why did he have to get referred to the tribunal only to get a fine? If the MRO thought it was bad enough why didn’t he just suspend him. Two weeks down to one, instead the MRO makes a circus has all the Melbourne media in a lather. Also what exactly was he accused of? He didn’t eye gouge, scratching the neck? Was it because of the look? What was he charged of.?!Hair pulling? Merret got 1000, vigorous throw into the ground? Nic Nat also got a thousand. The studs up rule was created for him, other players were doing it for years. How many frees has Greene given away since the rule change. None. I tell you what if he moved to Richmond he would be the greatest player in the game.
TomC
Roar Guru
The tribunal/MRP has been making a lot of seemingly arbitrary judgements over a long period of time. Bontempelli got the benefit of it recently, Naitanui got an extraordinary reprieve last week, and Greene arguably got the benefit of it here. Some other players haven't been so lucky. Honestly, if you can run a rule over the decisions and come up with a consistent pattern that favours certain clubs over others, you're doing well. To me, it seems like on balance high profile players are less likely to get suspended, and players approaching finals are less likely to be suspended, and that's about it. I think we need to fix up the system so there's less room for bias, unconscious or otherwise, but wailing about corruption distracts us from the real issue.
TomC
Roar Guru
Jonathan Brown was repeatedly suspended early in his career, often for rather unsportsmanlike acts, but it doesn't seem to have affected his legacy too much.
Penster
Roar Guru
Ask Barry Hall.
Paul D
Roar Guru
Robbo is very well behaved these days. He only fires up if other teams start it first, like when Port were trying to go cage match on Lachie Neale Dodgy Hodgy is a gem. Needs a statue outside the Gabba. He is still capable of dishing it out, he absolutely ironed out Dyson Heppell last year, he just does it legally now
Pumping Dougie
Roar Guru
I can't stand him either.