Why Bosnich and Slater are both right about foreign players in the A-League

We have to have 3+1 anyway. If we had 7 foreigners like the APFCA is proposing, some clubs would have to drop 4 players for ACL, which would not bring quality up. The A-League's focus should be on keeping their best Australians such as Goodwin and Davidson, by matching the offers asian clubs are giving to these caliber players with the removal of the salary cap and more rich owners such as Redbull.

HA HA HA Bosnich has never been right about anything EVER he is a sensationalist and head liner a show pony and Slater for once is right ,it does not take a genius too see that the A league is wasting a lot of money on has beens have a look at how they are injury prone and geriatric ,how about western united what a joke any pure football fan would laugh at there recruiting 5 has bees average age of 36 its a joke

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Slater but it's just silly to think player movement to and from Australia is a two-way street. Football is entrenched as a number 1 spectator sport in every European country, and it was allowed to become that way without teams in those countries being dominated by foreigners. For that reason alone, the Australian game needs to give special protection to locals until we have something resembling a level playing field.

There are a few big holes in Bozza's argument. First, most national teams that have improved with the increase in the number of allowable foreign imports into their domestic comp have more teams in their domestic comp and those clubs field more age levels right up from juniours thru under 15s to u 23s and reserves. These two factors alone create more opportunuties for younger players. Second, the only young aussie players who can go overseas are those who have dual citizenship or who can afford the visas. Dual citizenship eventually expires thru the future generations so these opportunitues will not be available to many future generations of young players. Slaters view is the only fair and logical view. Support for additional senior foreign players should only be forthcoming if the A League clubs field at least another younger age group team in their states competitions e.g. an U 18 side.

Australian football requires a wholistic approach. We need to get a second division going ASAP, with a clear path to P&R, creating consequence for losing, adding more reason to compete, and a place for developing Australians to get regular competitive play time. Even the lowly players comfy pay checks are under threat with relegation. I don’t blame foreigners for taking away opportunities from Australians, you have to earn it, take that position away from them, we are too comfortable and complacent, Honda pointed this out.

I'm probably proposing a heretical view of local player pathways and future soccer development model for Australia. Why not divide the current NPL clubs and assign them as compulsory talent scouting sources for A-League clubs ... This might then make those A-League clubs force investement to those NPL clubs to ensure improved talent developments ... Which is better spent money than on a second tier National comp ... This in turn also make parents and local clubs feel more loyal and actually want to support the A-League clubs thereby increasing crowd numbers and really get to the grass roots supports and show local players who have aspirations that they have opportunities to make it the the top tier in Australia

They are both wrong. Foreign players are payed a lot more than local players and are worse value for money. There is not enough competition for spots in Australia and players get easy money and take it too easy. Thats why the youth is so poor. In the NSL days while local clubs had pathetic standards, players when they moved overseas were forced to train super hard to even get a look in and before they could earn a dollar. Then you start worrying they are copying the drug taking culture of AFL and NRL. There is no competition in those sports so they do all that and no one will be the wiser.

To try and make some sense out of the discussion points being put forward by both these experienced ex-Socceroos, one has to dig a lot deeper than they have and pose the questions (1) Are we still capable ,under present financial positions, to attract talent from overseas that would certainly increase the standard of the HAL, as Bosnich suggests. However after having established finance is available we then have to examine the recruitment methods being used for it also has to be said that not all " imports" have both the inclination and desire to help in achieving that goal, ie improving our standard. (2) We then examine the other point and have to ask the question, are the youth players coming off the production line, supposedly created by two expensive "master coaches", the National Curriculum, better or worse than the talent being produced 20 years ago. The performances of our under age rep. teams in the last few years suggest this is not the case and this in turn poses the question , has the NC been as successful as at first promised despite the fact that millions of dollars have been spent on the "dream". If these two points are entered into the discussion, a whole different form of debate emerges, for, on the surface of things, both protagonists are right in what they say, but just as obviously both opinions have to be broken down and debated upon in order that the problems inherent in both points are clarified and acted upon. Cheers jb.

Nem - An interesting comment. Based on the arguments being put up by both Fox experts and using the players you mention, how do you think a team made up with those same players , would have gone, had they been able to be brought together by shrewd recruitment.(I have added a few where I think they are warranted to your requirements). Young, A.N.Other, Del Pierre, Zwaanswijk, A.N.Other, Isaiais, Fred, Castro, Broich, Berisha and Henrique. That's 9 imports and space for 2 locals. Your thoughts? jb.

The way I see it, if your talented kid is scouted by any professional club they have basically won a lottery already given the competition and the fact it’s a combination of talent and sheer luck (despite what all the deluded dads think). If the choice then is between a local club and a foreign one, it’s like entering another lottery. One has about 2000 balls in it, but the prize is bigger. The other has 200 balls, the prize is much smaller but still ... not bad being a pro sportsperson on a few 100 grand is it? I’m probably thinking too small I know.

Great post; I should have read further and not bothered with my vague comments saying basically the same thing but absent the detail.

If the visa signings actually lead to a better product, more fans, more cash, more clubs and the kind of interest that would lead to promotion relegation then Bosnich has the right idea. But, concurrently we need to sort out how we nurture our juniors. They are not mutually exclusive things. Slater is right, but only if the status quo remains. In any policy change on this there needs to be a defined end game outlined in terms of why we are doing it, with some consideration of how we’d address some of the problems that Slater raises.

Look at what Norwich is doing. Football Director - the most important appointment at that club, completely turned them around with smart (but not expensive) recruitment.

I would rather pay two better quality foreigners the same amount of money as is now spread over paying for say five or six mediocre players, who were also capable of helping develop local talent. The most expensive things in life are always the cheapest because they never do the job properly and continuously need replacing .

astute post G

Like most things football there is a lot of variables at play with this discussion. The main influences I believe stems back to club scouting networks, youth development, and salary cap. Quality visa signings are as much a contribution to scouting ability (and networking) as it is salary packaging - lets just agree that on its own Australia as a destination/lifestyle is a bonus not a primary incentive - so the salary cap isn't going to increase quality signings on it's own if it remains across five (or more) positions if the salary doesn't increase. Scouting ability then becomes key if there are limited funds to be able to find an available, quality player-per-dollar, than just getting anyone that is available for the right price and hope they stand out. So increasing the foreign quota isn't going to work - for increasing quality of the league - if the cap remains (or clubs can't afford increase in salary spend). Similarly, without increasing squad sizes and the number of teams (both in the A-League, and green-lighting a second, professional division) to give greater opportunities to youth, then there is a block on opportunity to grow from youth academy teams to first team positions. And so with youth development that how an academy is run with the right people is important - and again scouting (youth and staff) + a club's philosophy and plan on development is important - as is the pathway to the first team, or professional tier (from semi-pro NPL). Also couple this with first team philosophy of playing youth if they are good enough over a perceived quality of foreign imports...which aligns to scouting coaches and staff that contribute to the club rather than being a block on pathways between academy and first team if that is deemed important and outlined in a club's philosophy. So A-League club owners might want a quick injection of excitement of extra visa players, without cap limits, as a sugar hit to metrics and to spur further investment to increase revenue, but the A-League shouldn't exist in an isolated football environment. So both might be right but it's more that a middle ground needs to be reached: second division opportunities that fills the gap between NPL and professional football, youth development, player, coach, support staff opportunities, infrastructure both physical and processes support scouting etc., without re-enforcing existing barriers that means a growing football economy locks out the very community that supports it to those that control the top - which is where we have come from already.

4 + 1 ... maybe 4 + 2 if the are Asian based...

For my money this is the discussion we need to have - why are the clubs pushing to sign more foreign players? Are they doing so because they don't believe the quality of Australian players is good enough? If so, why not? Are they even bothering to scout NPL level? Whether you increase the number of foreign players or not, unless you actually invest in youth development then the league has no chance of increasing in quality (unless all of a sudden every club is brought by a billionaire and the salary cap is removed and the number of foreign players is unlimited). We also need to determine what the point of the a-league and w-league is. Is it to produce players capable of playing for the Socceroos/Matildas? Is it to make money for the club owners? Is it to provide entertainment? Is it a vehicle for clubs to represent their communities? IMHO the question of whether to increase the number of foreign players is too nuanced to be boiled down to a simple yes or no answer.

"What has to be figured out is whether the club is likely to give youth players an opportunity and just how good the coaching is". This will be fascinating to watch over the next decade or so - how many academy players will get a chance at senior level (even if at a different club)? Will the clubs recognise the need to invest in quality coaching at that level to give themselves the best chance of developing players?

more lower quality foreigners who aren’t really going to enhance the quality of the A-League. I think the article states our foreigners are already on the pine more than the pitch. We have enough low quality as it is. My club (Adelaide) has given foreigner after foreigner a chance to play No9/10. Guardiola, Cavusevic, Henrique, Matmour, Ilso, Thomassen, Diawara now Opseth. They thrown good money after bad. What would have happened if they just persisted with Marc Marino or Stametolopolous, maybe now Toure gets the chance? Aloisi was 16 on debut for Adelaide City, likewise Paul Agostini at West Adelaide. Viduka 18 at Melbourne Knights. What has changed?