Why Starc should stick to white-ball cricket

why does everybody think that mitchell starc is coming back from bad form with his bowling-this time last year there wasnt a run up anywhere in australia that suited him-he was concerned that he might do something bad to his ankle but now this year the run ups are fine and he is bowling like a demon.why the run ups were bad last year must come down to the curators and amazing the run ups are fine this year and see what happens-a bowler at his best.

As for the “the rest of it” you kind of don’t rebut the other arguments because well I’m right about them. His economy at Brisbane in shield game and last test match against sri lanka more recently is nowhere near as good as the last two Adelaide D/N matches for example . You basically don’t have an argument there so you selectively head back to commenting poorly about the english matches. Worst economy rate against sri lanka , figures so so. Richardson figures way better. Then look at his adelaide numbers much better , more wickets and best economy of all bowlers. Brisbane 2019 Sri lanka: MA Starc 41/2 3.41. JA Richardson 26 /3 1.85. PJ Cummins 39/4 2.65. NM Lyon 38/1 2.37. Adelaide D/N 2015. MA Starc 24/3 2.66. JR Hazlewood 66/3 3.80. PM Siddle 54/2 3.17. NM Lyon 42/2 2.80. Adelaide 2017. MA Starc 49/3 2.45. JR Hazlewood 56 /1 3.50. PJ Cummins 47/2 2.93. NM Lyon 60/4 2.48. Second innings highest economy but gets 5 wickets. Once again he goes better at certain pitches than others. Perhaps consider yourself now educated on Starc Bush, don’t know what you want me to say. I had him in the 14 man squad and he may get wickets at Brisbane as he has in past but if looking at rotation my point is Neser has been in better form there all summer and richardson has better recent figures there. Your wrong that he’s ordinary at test level it depends on the conditions/pitch he’s chosen on.

We agree to disagree there are two points to remind you and be clear. Ill take the first point in this post. 1) Starc was not selected when he should have been in england this summer at grounds that suited him more. We lost or drew the games he was not in that he had better records at than the grounds up north where the ball generally and historically moves about more and are not as flat. The context does matter in the confines and conditions of the 2013 match particularly one innings where It was rain induced to a draw where england had a huge crack and could not get bowled out in reality. Australia could not win. They came out one day style . A 60 over slog fest in one day between two sides (only 40 overs at england ) meant England could totally go for it when Starc bowled early on before they lost wickets and chance their luck. only 7 Overs. In one day 20/20 matches economy rates can go through the roof. All the bowlers got hit hard the numbers in that second innings are pretty irrelevant, clearly the wicket wasn’t doing enough and starc couldn’t bowl a second spell which is generally where an innings gets its realistic economy rate from. Australia went for it to (in the same day over 20 innings even harder earlier and england bowlers got slogged too). We can strike a line through that second innings a bit like striking a line through the shield form at junction oval recently on a rock hard concrete pitch ( I supposed context doesn’t matter there too? pull the other one Bush, they all got centuries there. conditions and context matter. Proven wrong again but I suspect you’ll try knit pick one comment and leave the rest out to suit your argument). So if we are reduced to three matches less the rain fest innings in 2013 , under normal conditions at the oval and lords in 2015 and his innings at oval in 2013, that brings his economy rate way down. It skyrockets when you include his poor form on unsuitable pitches up north where it was not as flat and moved about a lot more. I think most experts understand this about Starc. You can do the math but its much higher on an aggregate mean at the northern grounds which weren’t as flat and moving about. They were really poor up there. I was anti selecting starc on the northern grounds in 2015 . He was selected at the WRONG venue/conditions which don’t suit his bowling as well. We LOST those matches as well so it was a factor. Its on those grounds where he truly couldn’t contain his economy. The point is he goes much better on the flatter decks or ones that don’t quite move around as much. Archer bowled similar pace bowled brutally at Australia at lords and took most wickets. We didn’t have starc. Flat pitch for most part but induced a lot of unplayable balls from the speed. Starc on his tighter economy at lords than other pitches there would have made a difference like Archer down the slope where he always bowls economically in all formats or gets wickets which he has consistently done even. We nearly lost the match this summer in part due to his omission and lyon bowling too long on last day getting thumped with little rotation. “So again, Starc had essentially no impact on this test at all, at least not in a positive way”. Thats absolute jibberish, almost comical statement you made including the comparison to faulkner. Starc got 3 for 92 first innings econ 2.78 in 2013. Most importantly he got the prized wicket of Pieterson who was smacking australia all over the place and helped win england the series , in form Trott in the match who was well in to a big innings and Broad who smacked the ball around a lot more back then prior to his bouncer hits. Safe to say Starc helped save the match for us given those critical wickets , we lost most of the other matches he did not play in or when he played north in england. That statement you made is omitting facts or delusional not sure which but you can choose. So don’t know what you want me to say his record in the capital was much better than the northern grounds though and fine contributions in wins or draws there even if it was tight economy in one match and key wickets in another. We did not lose those matches and his contributions were valuable so your wrong on these points. He also slayed england in the ODI there this summer down the slope getting 4 wickets in a dominant win . They play england again in the semi final at edgbaston where it moves about and england destroy australia starc only gets 1 wicket and hit for twice the economy rate . Sure its white ball which Im sure you will try and raise but the point is its another example of where he bowls well in england in london and not up north where it moves about . The slope at lords is one ground where he is really effective or economical. Most commentators agreed on the point. I guess your on your own there. You picked out his 2015 ashes stats with a general average above but the point is the numbers hit his economy rate when you include the grounds outside of the capital compared to the numbers at lords/oval in 2015. In 2013 I think he only played oval. My point is he goes better at some grounds than others namely london than northern grounds . Once again Bush your off the mark , don’t know what you want me to say when your isolating facts to suit some sort of argument about starc being overrated or the grounds/conditions not mattering.

Didn't Stark just net 6 or 7 wickets in the SS game that finished yesterday? Perhaps someone who knows cricket could've told you this pre story.

@JFarrell you're probly right about Stark so far but here's another way to look at it. For the 1000s of us who despise T20 as a blight on a great game we ask this...... If Starc is only worthy of white ball cricket what use is he at all? There's not enough 1 day games scheduled now to keep him as a specialist for that. T20 is unworthy of a bowler of his talent and who cares how Aust goes in this lucky dip. So I say - Starc is still young and can improve as a bowler playing real red ball cricket. It's up to him to improve his red ball bowling and he certainly can if he works hard. If he doesn't want too then ship him off to Indian T20 with the rest of the mercenaries and forget him. He's got plenty of time to make the right decision.

The oval was getting easier to bat on there in 2013, England only had 227 to make off 46 overs with pieterson going the biff after australia who were aggressive in declaring early. There's no 'context' to going at 6.85 and taking no wickets - it's just bad bowling. The only 'context' to consider is that every other bowler went at a more economical rate and the next worst was Faulkner, who took two wickets and at least bowled one maiden to put pressure on. So again, Starc had essentially no impact on this test at all, at least not in a positive way. And even if I wanted to run a line through the sand, he was the least economical bowler in the first innings as well - it might have still been economical bowling, but in the 'context' of that innings it was the most expensive in both total runs and runs per overs and he bowled the most wides and no balls - all alleviating the pressure. When starc played at oval and lords we did not lose. 2019 the opposite. This is a false equation - Starc was not the player of the match or even the best bowler for Aus in 2015 in either of those games so us winning had little to do with him. Outside of the one day fest his test economy are all best at oval and lords by some distance, check them out up north in 2015 and 2013 and get back to me . He got clumped way worse than oval and lords. You haven’t looked at the whole picture bush. your wrong yet again . This point makes no sense whatsoever. I agree that he got "clumped way worse than oval and lords" - that just means he was terrible in those games, rather than only passable at Lords/Oval. Just because you're even worse somewhere else, doesn't mean you should be selected where you play best; assuming someone else could have done better. The 'whole' picture here is that Starc's figures for the 2015 Ashes were 18 wickets at 30.50 going at 3.85. A modest return at best for an Australia quick is all you can say about that. As for the rest of it, I dunno what you want me to say - I've already said that I'd select him and I think he should play this summer. I just think he's over hyped sometimes.

Yeah but you haven’t looked at the context of the match as all. The oval was getting easier to bat on there in 2013, England only had 227 to make off 46 overs with pieterson going the biff after australia who were aggressive in declaring early. it turned in to a one day match for victory (65 overs between two sides perhaps due to bad weather from memory in one day) . It ended a draw. All bowlers had terrible economy in the second innings though and starc only bowled seven overs and we only had 40 overs at them so run a line through the second innings there as england were chasing hard. Everyone with any sense knows he’s a threat down the slope at lords. When starc played at oval and lords we did not lose. 2019 the opposite. Outside of the one day fest his test economy are all best at oval and lords by some distance, check them out up north in 2015 and 2013 and get back to me . He got clumped way worse than oval and lords. You haven’t looked at the whole picture bush. your wrong yet again . I think your reasoning is completely wrong per the evidence and context of those matches , the economy rates and ultimately via the results which speak for themselves in all sorts of ways in team balance as well. They may select him at gabba but starcs more recently stats lack economy at Gabba and are nowhere near as good as say Adelaide more recently . He was beaten by Richardson at gabba by some distance on economy rate and wickets in January v sri lanka and got one shield wicket there. He may still take 2 or 3 there given his form but Neser could arguably do a better job at his home pitch with a little more economy and he bats probably a little better. His shield form there has been pretty good in three matches maybe one so so innings as it flattened out a bit last match. Starc would be a lock for Adelaide for me where he was nightmare for england and nz to face with pink ball in D/Ns there last 3 years . The results , economy rates, contexts speak for themselves. I think your wrong bush

starcs 3 for 92 in the first innings at the oval in 2013 But you didn't look at his stats in the second innings of that game - 0 for 48 off 7 at an economy rate of 6.85... That's terrible. So his match figures in that game were 3 for 140 at 4.25. That is, to be frank, a terrible return. He had no real impact on the 2013 game - Faulkner took more wickets and he was the most uneconomical bowler in both innings... This example weakens your argument even more. As for our win at Lords in 2015 - he took 2 wickets out of a possible 20. Even if you're not a "strike" bowler, that's a poor return for the match, let alone when you are meant to be the teams main wicket taking threat. Again, I'd select him for Brisbane, but you're reasoning here is simply wrong.

If starc didn’t play well at gabba its a disaster as they will drop him at adelaide where he should most definitely play . Just hoping he does well at gabba like his 2017 match against england where he got good wickets despite being less economical than others as want him in at Adelaide. You never know what the selectors will do on rotation of the third quick it seems

Starc down the slope at lords for e.g. to right handers can be lethal. Last two DN tests at adelaide lethal, especially under lights with pink ball there. Not such a good economy rate at brisbane. Richardson outperformed him easily in january there against Sri Lanka , economy rate in particular but perhaps starc will be fired up. Neser hard done by for a home test at gabba bowled well yesterday against pakistan A , with his batting runs , alongside Hazelwood and Cummins they would be a lethal three but theres no reason why starc won't take a couple too there. He's just going to be way more lethal and more economical at Adelaide and thought there was agreement from selectors on rotating and preservation of quicks. Selectors seem all over shop with statements and when to rotate and rest correctly. Its not hard to asses where he has hemorrhaged more runs

sounds like he's going to play, I think neser is hard done by though, he's been good this summer and has his eye in at gabba. They say they want to rotate bowlers but they tend to get the rotation wrong for me . For example if Neser bowed well at gabba id still drop him for Starc at Adelaide DN. The stats don't lie there and both are bowling well its a simple acknowledgment on who bowls better and where but the old test selection mindset comes in to play. Its not discount starc is fired up and bowling well before the gabba but he's historically never had the best economy rate there at all.

He definitely should have played at the Oval (especially if we were planning on bowling first!). He's the perfect bowler on those less-responsive surfaces because he can still take wickets. If he plays at the Gabba then I'd like to see him used in short, sharp bursts, unless he looks like he's found a really good groove.

Geoff, Starcs lethal at some grounds and his economy rate and effectiveness goes wondering at some grounds that don't suit him as well. Im a huge fan if his but the selectors have often not chosen him when they should have and chosen him when they shouldn't have for me. He should have played at Lords down the slope, and the oval in england for sure as had great economy history at both grounds in and took a brace in 2013 at the oval and also had great ODI form at both. He was traditionally more expensive up north on pitches that just didn't quite suit him as well in 2015 and in the ODI at world cup where the tighter line and length bowling often prevails so often . Here they are with another choice the selectors . At the gabba, he took one wicket at his shield game recently and was the poorest of the economy rates against sri lanka in January test where jhye richardson was really so much more effective with low economy rate. Starcs had a blinder last two shield games and in 2017 he did well against england at gabba but still others had better economy rates but he does provide such a different option in variation too. I just think he's an instant selection at Adelaide D/N with pink ball where Ive seen him bowl right through england and nz in last two tests there. Neser or Richardson may be a little more effective at the Gabba. I don't trust the selectors to get right though either they bungled it up in england with bowling and batting choices after first test. Interesting to hear your thoughts and great memories of your amazing bowling as a kid .

the consensus is they will go with starc in selection announced today. Lets just hope he’s hungry after being dropped and can carry the amazing efforts from other grounds back to the gabba. He did well enough against england in 2017 . At his best he’s brilliant. I still think they messed up where to use him in england quite badly although they were write not to select him first test at edbaston where he’s histrocialy expensive. theres definitely grounds, pitches and patterns that suit starc and grounds that don’t. I really like him as a bowler but sometimes its hards on the head when they pick him at the wrong ground on economy rates or have not bowled him where he’d be more lethal and tight.

When Starc is at his best he gets the ball swinging in to the right-handers with the new ball and is very dangerous. There was a time, a few years back, when it was almost a given that he would take a wicket in the first over of an innings just about every time with a big, booming 150km/h inswinger. Then when the ball starts reversing he goes around the wicket and gets the ball tailing away.

Perhaps, although places like that Starc has often excelled. Australia's last tour of Sri Lanka, Starc was pretty much the only player in the team to come out well. Pretty sure he took the record for any visiting pace bowler in a 3 test series in the sub-continent. Something like that. Highly abrasive conditions that rough up the ball quickly and bring in reverse swing really quickly can make Starc pretty lethal. A bit like the current SCG Shield match where NSW opened with spin on an abrasive deck and Starc was getting reverse in the 16th over.

I really liked the idea of Jhye for the first test, but he's really struggled in his last few games, with 1/41, 0/67, 3/79, 0/27 which has raised some doubts for me. So not sure. Really feel like Pattinson, to me, feels like a good backup to Cummins, but I'd prefer someone who can bring a bit more variety to the attack. I'd prefer Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc to Cummins, Hazlewood, Pattinson I reckon.

Yeah I only mentioned the Gabba D/N matches in support of Starc using the pink ball in Adelaide and Perth. Not sure he's the best option with the red ball at the Gabba, although he's bowling well enough at the moment that the selectors will probably pick him.

I think your your spot on about adelaide which is what I was thinking but couldn’t quite remember , i think he will be much more potent with pink ball and the dew on the grass at night from memory when I went to his DN test against england and nz there. Gabba though I’m not so sure on quoting day night matches at gabba . His last shield game there he got one wicket and economy rate not great and his last two tests there in last two years were not great numbers compared to the other bowlers . Sri Lanka ok figures but well behind jhye richardson on wickets and more importantly economy Sri Lanka Jan 2019. MA Starc 41 2 3.41. JA Richardson 26 3 1.85. PJ Cummins 3 39 2.65. He did better against England there in 2017 and did get wickets but was one of the poorer economy rates of the four bowlers over the two innings. The figures were solid enough though there despite the economy dipping a bit. Id go with neser at gabba as he’s doing ok in this Aus A match and will be stronger at gabba and contributes runs with bat but jhye richardson and starc are close just think Id start starc at Adelaide as clearly has great DN test figures there with pink ball

Ah I forget I meant to include starcs 3 for 92 in the first innings at the oval in 2013 and that his economy rates were much lower at oval than his rates other grounds north in 2015 (2.25 tighest of all aussie bowlers that innings and 2.5 second innings these were very good frustrating batsmen) We won that test in 2015 and drew in 2013 at oval with starc playing. Re Lords in He did take wickets at lords in 2015 and his economy rate there was much better than up north yet again. We won that test by 405 runs. Its pretty well known he bowls well down the slope at lords. The one day game at lords your right is different but it did indicate that he bowled well with the slope at lords this summer in to the english batsman with left arm bowling but its just another example that he bowls well at that ground. Of course without starc at lords and oval this summer we drew (just) and lost both matches All that said I would go with Neser in front of him at gabba actually and possibly jhye richardson and select starc on one of his stronger australian grounds. Starts been poor to average at the gabba in shield and last two tests as opposed to other grounds