We’ve picked all the batsmen, now it’s time to move onto the all-rounder in The Roar’s greatest Ashes XI of all time.
This was one of the closest contests in our initial poll a couple of weeks ago. England great Ian Botham ended up topping it to come into this second round as the first seed, his 36 per cent just edging him past Australia’s finest ever all-rounder, Keith Miller, who was picked in 34 per cent of teams.
Both were phenomenal all-rounders, but while Botham is probably remembered as a better Ashes performer, thanks predominantly to his exploits in 1981, it’s actually Miller who had the ever-so-slightly better record in matches between Australia and England.
In Botham’s 36 Tests against Australia, he plundered 1673 runs at 29.35 with six 50s and four centuries, all the while taking 148 wickets at 27.65.
Miller played some seven fewer Ashes matches than his all-rounder opponent, so his total runs and wickets are lower – 1511 and 87 respectively – but his averages are superior. The New South Welshman averaged 33.57 with the bat and 22.4 with the ball, and he also made as many fifties as Botham and just one less century.
Botham’s bowling strike-rate, though, was a step up on Miller’s, his wickets coming every 57.2 balls compared to the Australian’s 65.7.
At any rate, this looms as a tight contest, so be sure to get your vote in and let everyone know whether you think it’s Ian Botham or Keith Miller who should make the final XI in the comments below.
Once Upon a Time on the Roar
Roar Guru
Had there been no world war 2 there would have been Ashes in 1940-41 and 1942. Doubtful Miller would have been ready by then or if picked prolly would have needed time to develop. Would not have been many tests against other teams so the war didn't cost him that much.
Once Upon a Time on the Roar
Roar Guru
Botham's batting averaged peaked at 38 in 1982. His bowling from 1978-81 had him up there with the best in the world and there were some class paceman around at that time.
Rowdy
Roar Rookie
Being a Victorian was his only flaw.
Charles
Guest
Kieth miller was not a new south Welshman.! He was a proud owner of Victorian
Tigerbill44
Roar Guru
Don't expect much contest for Gilly in the WK position. really looking forward to the competition for the bowling places.
Tigerbill44
Roar Guru
Originally picked Botham so sticking to it. Won’t mind at all if Miller takes the place.
Sportstragic
Roar Rookie
Nah not B. B has the best batsmen but ordinary bowlers. Wouldn’t really bowl out the best sides. L has the best bowlers and some world class batsmen.
Pope Paul VII
Roar Rookie
Nugget flew more operations over occupied Europe so that gets him over the line I reckon.
matth
Roar Guru
It's been in editing for a while now. Hopefully it will be out soon.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Reckon Keith edges on that four way-comparison. Another point of comparison, just for fun. Miller’s Ashes average at the same age that Botham played his last Ashes Test (33 years 10 months): 45.9 with the bat, and 20.3 with the ball!
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Hardly destroyed us in 1985. Two 50s, no 100s in 6 Tests, two five-fers, bowling average of 28 was good not great, and all against an Australian side weakened by defections to the rebel SA tour. His second best Ashes series with bat and ball was 1978-79 which was essentially against Australia 2nd XI, with nearly all the top players in World Series Cricket.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Only require 7 Millers if you assume he couldn’t have maintained that average if he bowled more overs. But it’s an interesting point - he didn’t bowl a lot of overs per Test, compared for example to Lindwall, which is why he didnt take many wickets per Test while having a great average. Most of his teams had two spinners and they would bowl a lot more overs, especially in the second innings.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
But no more than Miller, arguably less so. Repeating a comment below: Botham played his last Test at 36 and 7 months, Miller played his last at one month short of 37. Botham’s last Ashes series aged 33, averaged 33 with the bat. Miller’s last Ashes Series at 36, only averaged 22. Miller also lost six years to WW2, didn’t get play his first Test until he was 27.
1DER
Guest
Doesn't work like that. Miller averaged 3 wickets per test against the Australians. You would require 7 Millers on your calculation. Botham averaged 4.35 wickets per test against the Australians with 9 five (5) wicket innings and 2 ten wicket matches from 34 tests. Miller 3.0, 3, 1, and 29. A few of the other bowlers put forward in this exercise; Terry Alderman: 5.88, 11, 1 and 17 respectively. The great D K Lillee: 5.75, 11, 4 and 29 respectively. Mitchell Johnson: 4.57, 5, 0 and 19 respectively. Bob Willis: 3.65, 7, 0 and 35 respectively.
Rowdy
Roar Rookie
Both Sagittareans. What else could've transpired?
Rowdy
Roar Rookie
What could've he been.....
1DER
Guest
Miller batted virtually in the no.5 position with stints at no.4. Botham's batting position was virtually no.6 with one series batting at no. 7 against the Australians. If the virtual test match for the greatest Ashes XI was to be played in England I would have Gilchrist batting @ 6 with Botham @ 7.
Rowdy
Roar Rookie
Miller
Gee
Roar Rookie
Cricinfo stats after they both played 55 test (when Miller ended). Miller 170 wickets at 22.97 & 2958 runs at 36.97. Botham 251 at 23.68 & 3008 at 37.13. Botham bowled more but a pace bowler averaging about 4.5 wickets a test for that long a period is top flight.
Chris.P.Bacon
Guest
+1 - Miller. (...and when does the winner of your alphabet cup series come out matth? - and is it 'B'?) ;)