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Once Upon a Time on the Roar

Roar Guru

Joined June 2020

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Not true. The stumps may be legitimately broken with a batsman short of his ground before the finger goes up to seal the LBW. LBW wins because of alphabetical order. There’s lots of idiosyncrasies in cricket like that – another one is no-ball holds precedent over a wide. And not in the laws, but rather in the umpiring manual, whenever there is the possibility of a catch, that must command the umpire’s attention even if it means not watching the crease to ensure the batsmen touch down correctly and don’t run short.

Smith’s petulant run-out tantrum tarnishes the hard work he’s done to repair public image

It actually goes in alphabetical order, rather than what happened first. For example, if a batsman is plumb in front, and then the ball hits the stumps then bowled goes in the scorebook. If he’s plumb in front and the ball richochets onto the bat and is caught, then caught goes in the scorebook. LBW would supersede run out because L comes before R. Seems odd, but true.

Smith’s petulant run-out tantrum tarnishes the hard work he’s done to repair public image

Totally sure. Dravid was a run machine, but he wasn’t the impact stroke player. He was the backbone, the rock, the wall, but not the match winner like Azhar, Kohli and Laxman.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

Indian League Premier. They changed the name to rekindle interest in T20.

Australia spun out of Sri Lanka ODI series

He also didn’t trust naturally gifted stroke players like Slater and Mark Waugh. He let them have their head against lesser opponents, but seemed to think they should transform themselves into grafters like himself when up against the real big boys.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Don’t get me wrong I love AB and his legacy as much as anyone. He had many fine attributes as a leader, such as being willing to declare for the good of the team when he himself was in the 90s and without a test century for nearly three and a half years. But playing an attacking brand of cricket as a team against the absolute top sides was not one of them.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Yes. We just stick to winning SoO.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Should I write something and send it? I meant to say also I don’t think there would be room for both Border and Steve Waugh.

West Indies all-time Test XI

If you remember Renato’s article about Bradman against bodyline, he wouldn’t get anywhere near the side. And Mark Waugh would be an automatic pick, he played the windies quicks better than anyone.
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I would want Healy behind the stumps, Taylor as captain and the Waugh twins at their peak.
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How about Taylor, Trumper, Ponting, Mark Waugh, Stan McCabe, Border (vc), Healy, Warne, Lillee, Thomson, McGrath with McDermott 12th man. A long brittle tail but if we can’t bowl them out cheaply, we’re not gonna win anyway. We also have a slips cordon of Taylor, MWaugh, Border, Ponting and Warne. Ponting can also prowl the covers and midwicket. I wonder could we make Steve 13th man, field him at gully the whole time and rotate the quicks on and off the field between spells?
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West Indies all-time Test XI

Now that’s just being silly.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Did Border get the most out of inferior bowlers? We were never going to beat the West Indies under Border and also had to settle for drawn series against South Africa.

West Indies all-time Test XI

No we didn’t. Gillespie was mental mess, Tait a dud and Kaspa’s confidence would have been affected by his selectorial treatment. This left only Warne and Lee. The fact that they, along with McGrath got 79 of the 96 English wickets shows we didn’t quite have the bowlers to do the job.

West Indies all-time Test XI

No it isn’t. No fielders, no umpires and most of all no match and series situation.

West Indies all-time Test XI

It seems like a lot of genuine intellectual thought goes into it.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Yes it does. It would have been 5-0 if Ooh Ahh hadn’t stepped on that ball. Ponting won two world cups, it was his team that won in India and there was also our first ever one day series win in Lanka Land on top of 3-0 in the test series. He won 50% of tests post Warne-McGrath – now that’s captaincy!

As for 2005 Ashes and beyond, England had much better sides than in the 1990s and after 2006-07 Australia declined quite a lot. And of course if that accident hadn’t happened, England would not have won in 2009 or 2010-11 in the face of crushing 5-0 whitewashed in 2005 and 2006-07.

West Indies all-time Test XI

Tubby was seriously considering resigning the captaincy the night before he scored that meaningless ton at Edgbaston.

West Indies all-time Test XI

But Gilly was from NSW. Where is Ronchi from?

West Indies all-time Test XI

He did in one day cricket. He also had to face the greatest/most ferocious bowlers in the world at the time, which Haynesy didn’t. 😊

West Indies all-time Test XI

Haynes
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105 in Dunedin 1980
This was a crucial innings in a loss by the narrowest of margins i.e. 1 wicket. This was his maiden test ton. His second came in the very next test and was scored in a high scoring draw.
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125 at The Oval 1984
This was a soft 3rd innings ton. In a low scoring game, a head start of 28 runs was already invaluable at a ground where the side batting second rarely wins. Although nobody else reached 50, there were more than handy contributions of 49, 36 and 34 from three of the other specialist batsmen, as well as 12, 17, 30 and 10 from the 8-11 in the order, and in these situations this is more than sufficient. A mere 50 from Haynes would still have set an out of reach 300 target and a comfortable par victory of around the 100 run margin. By far the most crucial innings of the whole match for either side was Clive Lloyd’s unbeaten 62 in the first innings. This was also a dead rubber.
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143 in Sydney 1988-89
This was a lost cause, beginning the 3rd innings at 0 for -177 so never any authentic impact on the match result to be exerted. Haynes had, however, made 75 in the far more relevant first innings before being 5th out with the team total at 174. This was also a dead rubber. Earlier in the series, Haynes had made a soft 3rd innings even 100 going in at 0 for +54 on a ground (WACA) where the opposition were never going to reach 250 batting last. Scores of 0, 48, 64, 5, 30, 9, 23, 15, 17 and 6 from his team mates meant that a mere 50 from Haynes would have sufficed in getting the team total to 300 (rather than 9 for 349), which would have been more than enough to ensure a comfortable par victory.
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117 Karachi 1990-91
This was an outstanding knock in the first innings in a low scoring game which the West Indies ultimately lost by 8 wickets.
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Verdict
Comparing the three players using solely this criteria
Lara 3 or 4 of the 7 amounted to meaningful impact on the match, which is 10.3% of all his test tons.
Haynes 2 of the 4 amounted to meaningful impact on the match, which is 11.1% of all his test tons.
Mark Waugh all 3 amounted to meaningful impact on the match, which is 15% of all his test tons.

West Indies all-time Test XI

I’ve looked into Lara’s 7 and I’ll do Haynes’s 4 next. Incidentally, 3 of the 13 Mark Waugh tons I outlined yesterday fitted into that same category, one of which was the Adelaide v Saffies 1997-98 knock in which I actually ignore the runs and focus solely on deliveries faced.
145 at Old Trafford 1995
This was a lost cause, 221 behind in 3rd innings, so no impact. Lara did make 87 in the first innings, which was far more valuable in potentially shaping the match, and the next best score was 24.
115 v Sri Lanka in Kingston 1997
This was a very close (and probably exciting) drawn game in which Lara’s opposition finished 8 down but only 26 short of the 4th innings victory target. This was also a deciding test.
153 not out in Bridgetown 1999
We all know full well the details of this one, so no need to elaborate, other than to reiterate it will always remain one of the greatest test innings of all time.
100 in Antigua v Australia 1999
This was one occasion where his team actually needed him to push on well beyond 100 (as with his 213 and 153 earlier in same series). However, he was stopped in his tracks by his main nemesis Ooh Ahh Glenn McGrath, which resulted in Australia taking a critical 81 run lead into the 3rd innings and the Wests Indies ultimately going down by 222 in this series decider.
182 in Adelaide 2000-01
This matched turned out to be a deciding test, and the two teams finished fairly even on their first innings. A draw looked likely until the West Indies collapsed completely from the outset of their second innings.
122 in Trinidad v Australia 2003
This was, for all intents and purposes, a lost cause, the 4th innings target of 408 being higher than had ever been successfully chased down before. It was one of those occasions where a mirage of hope appears, the West Indies reaching 3 for 213 before the inevitable collapse in such situations. Lara himself was 7th out at 238, the final victory margin being 120 runs, 20 more than what I regard as par. Lara had made 91 in the more relevant first innings, though this was nowhere near enough to prevent the opposition taking a near 200 lead into the 3rd innings.
226 in Adelaide 2005-06
This was a dead rubber which is no crime in itself, except that as with the 400 19 months earlier, Lara had done absolutely nothing with the bat in the face of his team losing all prior matches in the series.

West Indies all-time Test XI

I know. But I find myself always using him as a yardstick when considering any player getting runs when they actually matter.

West Indies all-time Test XI

I also don’t like comparing across eras. I have come to the conclusion, for example, that the top ten Aussie test batsmen, purely in chronological order are Victor Trumper, Don Bradman, Stan McCabe, Greg Chappell, Allan Border, Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Ricky Ponting, Adam Gilchrist and Steve Smith.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

I don’t mind him as a commentator but Harsha Bogle is surely the best Indian commentator?

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

😢

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

A very sad story it sounds.

Sunil Gavaskar's greatest knocks in defeat

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