The Roar
The Roar

Bernie

Roar Rookie

Joined June 2020

2.2k

Views

2

Published

192

Comments

Published

Comments

Just Nuisance …. if you are reducing everything to sometimes meaningless stats, then perhaps a reminder of Richie Benaud’s words of some 20 years ago “Just time and being there will do that.” Kallis is not among the elite all time great batsmen.
Very good batsman, but not a great one. Good bowler yes – in fact one of the best 5th bowlers of any era. Great allrounder yes, perhaps 2nd after Sobers if we are only considering the batting-bowling combo rather than a player like Adam Gilchrist. I would put him in a saffie all time test xi but not their all time one day xi – he would miss out to Clive Rice on that one.
In an alltime world xi in either form of the game, whereas Sobers would walk into the team for his batting, with his bowling being a useful added bonus, Kallis would not get anywhere near either team for either forte.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

JGK … That’s precisely how I’ve always felt about Kallis’s ton in that Sydney test January 2006. The other enduring memory I have of Kallis in Australia was in the final WSC game before the finals in 2001-02. After a dirty trick by the kiwis to try and keep us out of the best of 3 finals it left the saffies only needing to score 40 or 50 less than our formidable total set in order to sneak into the finals ahead of us. They barely reached that much lower target in the full 50 overs, Kallis scored his only ever ODI ton against Australia – a very plodding innings by the ever evolving limited overs style by the early 21st century – and he walked off the ground holding his bat triumphantly aloft as if they had actually won the game.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

Paul he’s at least as good a batsman as Miller and possibly not far behind, if behind at all, as a bowler.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

Sobers was basically Stokes’s batting brutality + an extra 20 runs to the average.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

JGK Ricky Ponting alluded to something similar on at least two occasions: once after the Aust v saff match at 2007 world cup and once while commentating as Kallis was batting in a BBL match.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

That is very miss leading. Stokes went to stumps on penultimate day with 2 off 52 balls. The next day he went along at close to a run a ball overall and his last 70 odd (of 135 not out) cand in barely half an hour – that is the bit Kallis could only dream of doing.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

Paul there is nothing special about a 120 strike rate in T20. Kallis’s SR is tests was from the 1960s and his ODI SR from the 1980s.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

Yes very very lucky for England indeed.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

Kallis was as boring a batsman as Boycott and he could never have played an inningslike Stokes’s headingly miracle. Kallis should have traded 10 runs off his average for an extra 10 run on his strike rate.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

I wasn’t meaning to be critical of any thing you wrote. Sorry if it came across that way.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

That was 1997 and the winning margin was 2 wickets. Mark Waugh 116.

I had forgotten about 2011 and that makes things a bit awkward because that would make 6 wins for Australia in such games.

So I might shift the goal posts slightly and make the criteria less than 50 runs or 1-2 wickets. But that will also mean Trent Bridge 2005 will have to drop off the list.

To compensate I will include Headingly 1981 even though I technically didn’t start watching the game until nearly 6 months later.

So tomorrow evening I will post a complete list of tests since 1981 that Australia either lost or won by less than 50 runs or 1 or 2 wickets. 7 wickets down will only count either way if there was a batsman who was absolutely certain not to bat. I am assuming Simon Jones would have batted if needed in that aforementioned Trent Bridge 2005 run chase.

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

Actually the biggest piece of luck that England benefited from in that world cup was India throwing their match against them (England) just to keep Pakistan out of the playoff stage. The wheels had fallen off for England and they were spiralling out of the tournament and would have been out had the inform Indian team played properly in that match.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

When you’ve already scored nearly 4500 runs for 115 times dismissed, a solitary duck is only going to negatively affect your average by no more than about 1/3 of a run, just like to raise his average by a whole run next time he bats, Stokes would have to score 115.

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

No be as sour as you want. I don’t recognise England’s world cup title on account of the moronic boundary count back playing condition.

Question: where does Stokes stand among the small number of genuine world class cricketers New Zealand have produced?

Ben Stokes: The technical side of the perfect all-rounder

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/14676/scorecard/238203/south-africa-vs-australia-3rd-test-australia-tour-of-south-africa-2005-06

The last pair of Lee and Kaspowich needed 17. It is extremely rare for Australia to win these tests that go right down to the wire, whether chasing or defending – or at least since 1981 it has been extremely rare.

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

Naaahhh Your Grace … I would go for his 89 in Perth earlier that same series where he absolutely smashed the hapless aussie bowlers all over the place, turning them to complete jelly in 466 minutes of glorious, near unprecedented batsmanship …… just kidding.

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

When did he play?

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

With or without Bradman in the side, all three were when Australia was in deep trouble, so McCabe was obviously a player whose best was brought out by dire situations. Bradman being in the team made dire situations less frequent. At least one cricket historian believe Walter Hammond would have done better had Bradman not existed and described him as ‘an emperor denied an empire’ … remember Hammond averaged 58 and was not only the first player to 7000 runs, but also the fastest to that landmark until Smith beat him last December (in terms of innings taken, out or not out).

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

I am button holed that Wisden would nominate that 270 as the best innings of an entire century of test cricket … 270 in a test match is obviously outstanding, but it was played on a pitch that had flattened out and Bradman deliberately held himself back and declined to go in until the pitch was at its best for batting in a match where both teams had been rolled very cheaply in the first innings.

The 212 you mention contained a record number of singles in a test match innings, 99. This happened after Douglas Jardine had written a column calling for a new tactic – in the wake of bodyline being banned – whereby all fieldsmen bar keeper and bowler would be put on boundary whenever Bradman was on strike to give him a single to get the other batsmen on strike.

The 169 you mention came off only 191 balls, and not all innings in those days recorded balls faced, though some, including this one did.

Badcock was the first Tasmanian to score a century for Australia – may have even been the first Tasmanian to play for Australia, though don’t quote me on that one.

Gregory’s last test was when he got injured in Bradman’s first in 1928-29 if I am not mistaken, so you must be thinking of someone else – or was there a player of the same surname 8 years later?

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

TigerBill44 Bradman scored 3 tons in the 3 tests that he actually batted in in that 1938 series. One of the 5 tests was abandoned without a ball being bowled – one of only about 2 or 3 in test history – and he didn’t bat in either innings because of injury in the famous innings and 579 run loss in the final test at the Oval where Len Hutton made 364. There is a story that there was a headline early in the 1934 tour that read: BRADMAN FAILS AGAIN … It was in a practice match against a county and he actually made 67.

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

That 144 came off 390 balls … a strike rate of only 37 as opposed to his educationally estimated career test strike rate of 61. In those days some innings had balls faced recorded, some not – this one did. But we can educationally estimate his strike rate in innings where balls weren’t recorded because it was always recorded what time he went in and what time he got out. We also know consistent over rates of the time and all that is then left to do is think about what proportion of the strike a dominant player monopolises when he is batting.

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

It’s a great concept TigerBill44 and obviously if you were to include all underrated batting efforts the roar would never publish it because most would be too lazy to read for so long … great choices too …

If one wanted to be cheeky one might choose Kaspowich and Lee in 3rd test in Saffie Land early 2006 …

Sure it was a dead rubber, and sure technically they were only 8 wickets down and officially won by 2 wickets not 1, but also in reality Langer wasn’t going to bat in the 2nd innings so they were the last pair at the crease … And it is cold comfort given the above mentioned points that they did what this exact same last wicket pair had failed to do at Edgbaston only 9 or so months earlier …

Actually, immediately after Australia just failed to get home against Bangladesh in Sept-Oct 2017, I did a countback of close result tests involving our beloved Australia since I started following the game as a 9 year old in late 1981. I define a close result as the margin being 3 or less wickets or less than 50 runs and at that point the count was only 5 wins to Australia and 20 or so losses … obviously since then there is also that revolting loss at Headingly a year or so ago.

So in all those contexts, Kaspowich and Lee in Saffie Land in early 2006 in 3rd test was not to be scoffed at …

Forgotten efforts from famous Test players: Part 1

This would have to be the first time three Irishmen have made tons in the same ODI wouldn’t it?

WATCH: Ireland stun England to win third ODI

Farmore crucial inthat Edgbaston test was the ridiculous field Pontingset when England were 9 for 131 and Australiahaving wrested the momentum.

Has Broad pulled the wool over our eyes?

That was a magnificent innings by Randall, and I can say that even though it was before my time. Randall, career wise, underachieved as a batsman, but he was also a brilliant fieldsman, way ahead of his time, and his clown ness only made him a more popular human being with team mates, opponents and fans alike.

Dennis Lillee: The complete bowler