Has the A-League finally converted the 'Bring back the NSL' crowd?

As another life long Hammers fan, the main thing I resented in the 80s and then 90s were the obvious band wagon jumping Oz based Liverpool then Man U fans among my mates who thought they were entitled to rubbish my team. By all means enjoy your bandwagon, but bit of respect for genuine supporters. I know my team is crap.

I haven't done the research but I can't imagine any community owned clubs in EPL 2nd league, 3rd league etc. If no one owns the club, than no one is going to put in the millions required to run the club as the carrot of making some money and enjoying football is an dream/illusion that a lot of wealthy people get into owning clubs. If the Salary Cap is $2.1 million than that's what the NPL clubs will need to spend to get into A League with a relegation system. If the salary cap is scrapped than it becomes even more. I just don't see community backing the clubs to the tunes of $3 million+ a year. It would be great if it happened though.

I agree it makes it a difficult proposition.

the issue will always be financial (both ways, being promoted and relegated), there needs to be some form of reward for being promoted, like they do in europe. Maybe the promoted team get all there interstate away game day travel and accomodation paid for by the FA? i have no doubt some of your old nsl powerhouses have would easily have the cash (marconi, adelaide city, south melbourne etc) but what if the unexpected happens and a newish club that hasnt got the financial backing gets promoted to the a league?

Here, people talk about promotion and relegation. But some have given good perspectives of the problems too. From that, we can think why the more popular Rugby League has a fixed group too. Automatically, the a linkage can be made to AFL, the most popular in Australia, of which again is a single group competition. Then think why relegation can be successful and common in soccer in other countries? One of the interesting view from one of the bloggers here is polarity. Imagine, but Melbourne City and Melbourne Victory are both relegated in one or two seasons. Then, there would be no teams from Melbourne. Suddenly, an idea of meeting both "single group" and "hierarchical" system appears in mind. A "semi-single-group" system, a "semi-fixed group" or a "1.5 single group" system as one likes to call it. In such a system, there are fixed clubs and non-fixed clubs. For example, all the current 12 A-league clubs remain in the fixed group because franchise-licence paid. Add another 4 promote-relegate clubs. That means there are 16 clubs in the top league. The 4 promote-relegate clubs are subjected to relegation by ranking. For example, if the rankings of those 4 clubs at the end of the season are ( Club A - 7; Club B - 2; Club C - 3; Club D - 10 ), Club A and Club D relegate to low tier. Can relegation make the league more popular? Why fixed group competitions in AFL and Rugby League can do well? How about a "semi-fixed" system?

That's the paradox - while existing AL owners can profit by selling off new licenses, why would they let new clubs in for free? This is especially the case now that the owners run the show. Pro rel had a chance under FFA control. Now that it's in the hands of the existing clubs there is no chance at all it's going to happen.

I'll be honest, I don't really understand the bit about "an NPL club would have to have owners". WE have many long-lived clubs which are community owned, why can't they continue to be community owned? Also, I don't understand the bit about needing to sell a license. It's precisely that very same licensing system which needs to be dismantled in order to establish a football pyramid. While we continue to sell licenses to the highest bidder, there can never be a proper football pyramid.

After reading though the comments, this article has brought up where the divisions lie between football fans. A 2nd League and 3rd League that brings in relegation will bring everyone together in a competitive environment which is what professional sport is all about. If we get that part sorted, and we already have most participation in the country in juniors, than it all comes together. Add in a broadcaster that values football and the future is bright.

Well said. At this point in time if we just get the basics right like moving fully to a winter season so human beings can run and setting up a second league, its already big steps that haven't happened in 15 years. Progress is happening.

That's a fair point. But everyone always underestimates the amount cash outflow and overestimates the cash inflow. Hence why the clubs going broke in the A League. For one thing, an NPL club would have to have owners as they would need to be able to sell the license or club if they go broke so the next people take it over rather than dissolving clubs that have been around the 1950s etc. How would that structure be sorted out? It means that there would be need be an 'IPO' of clubs before they get into A League or 2nd League? A 2nd League needs to happen but I agree with a 5 year approach of letting it sort itself out as clubs will go broke in the 2nd league as well. And how many NPL clubs could afford the current instability where games get changed at a days notice as their players aren't full time. Nor do they even train as much as A League players. Essentially the 2nd League needs a couple of years to separate which clubs become full time and which clubs are still part time. And that requires full time staff that aren't players as well. What's the minimun wage in oz say $50k. Add a few full time staff and costs double pretty quickly. The top players may go full time and clubs will compete for their contracts. Before you know the $1 mil they spend a year becomes $2 mil or $3 mil. I don't know if the current set of sponsors will start tipping that much money into the club consistently over many seasons.

I would just add, having a proper football pyramid means NOT bringing in specific clubs. That's really the point. You don't pick and choose which clubs play in which tier. It works itself out depending on the ambition and merit of the clubs in the pyramid. So, in some seasons, you might have a small regional club replace a big city club. Then they may or may not drop out the following season. There might be seasons when the whole top tier is made up of just clubs from Sydney and Melbourne. Whatever the case, clubs have to earn it - they are not gifted a place at the table merely because they paid a license fee and because someone gave them a wink and a nod.

A League should just move to Pro and Rel, stop clinging to the idea of a closed comp with comparable ratings and crowds to AFL/NRL. Then you bring in Canberra, Woolongong, Tassie, North QLD and maybe some of the old ethnic NSL clubs. Who cares if some teams only get a few thousand people to games. It will be an exciting comp with a big point of difference to the AFL/NRL.

Big clubs means big attention. Being a born and bred Wednesday fan I know the truth of this unpalatable fact. How do we measure a big club. By performance in the highest league participated in. In this part of the world that means performance in the Asian Champions League. Therefore show me a “Big club “ in Australia, based on results in this competition. How does a big club evolve quite simply by operating under an inclusive football pyramid as alluded to by other posters. Show me “An inclusive football pyramid in Australia “. Just how far this country still has to go to get this pyramid is indicated by this article that mirrors the sentiments of the “Old Soccer New Football” slogan written to promote the fledgling A-League 15 years ago. Their is one Association football history in Australia and whatever the makeup or background of club or player or coach or administrator you belong to the same family. Simple message get all the football family at the same table. If after a while the family chef is serving everybody “Greasy Joes chips beans and eggs” then it is what it is. We may however find that some clubs are being served “Caviar and Truffles “ so then your dining with people of power and influence , particularly from a massive marketplace like Asia. Football is hierarchical most clubs are never noticed, but those that are and influence across the planet have got there through operating under a football pyramid that allowed them to be big, medium or small according to performance on and off the park and just as important the size of the market they represent.

We owe a lot to Frank Lowy but he also came out of real estate and cash flow is king. If you take a conservative approach to cash in football than you will be severely let behind which is exactly what happened. When the Wanderers won ACL than that was the point where it should have accelerated and not temporarily stagnate.

If the owners of the media channel are insecure about any other sports besides AFL than all they do is promote AFL. Kayo shows more ads about anything else besides A League. Even v8 supercars, I love motorsport but who the hell participates in motorsport on a mass scale in oz? It's time for a platform to step up and take on the A League. Fox Sports have shown their priorities.

Good read Stuart. It’s 3am in London. Osaka just beat Serena but I think this thread has been more entertaining. A few points: 1) need relegation/promotion but can’t bring in to quickly imo. Takes a lot of money to set up an a league franchise and they need “protected time to grow” but that needs to end at some stage to create a pyramid promotion/relegation structure for franchises. If the div 2 teams have the finances/facilities then they should have a chance to go into a-league. Perhaps that time is now 2) active support. It’s the major difference that sets football aside from other sports in oz. the atmosphere gnerated was a major calling card and generated a buzz around the league in the early seasons. But chicken-egg scenario, unruly behaviour by individuals eg, flares (Ive stood at northern and south MV ends so have some idea of what’s it’s like) meant it wasn’t tenable from a PR perspective to continue as it risked bad coverage and being less family friendly but in losing that we lost the heart of what it was all about. we shouldn’t try and homogenise the way we support it to other sports but anti social and unsafe behaviour can’t be tolerated 3) I’m a melb v member when I was in melb but also spurs supporter (even before I started living in London). Y do I support spurs even without a contextual link? Combination of on field product, marketing and media coverage and once the league has big Enough following u feel part of a wider community that follows a league (but still scratching my head a bit). Again chicken egg- but the league hq controls marketing and so must do a better job of public engagement at all levels and until league is big enough it just won’t generate the coverage AFL or NRL does regardless of grass roots participation levels 4) need a salary cap sadly only because it would become a Scottish league situation where only 1 or 2 teams ever have a chance to win and I don’t think that would work in this market

Chris you have got to be joking, Immobile, Chiesa, Jorginho better then Son. My point is simple, there is no player playing for Italy in Son's class, a sth Korean, now imagine saying that at any time pre 2010 that an asian player is better then anyone from Italy. My 2nd point is the times are a changing, the days that the big countries of Europe and Sth America having all the best players are not as common as it once was.