Brave Blossoms coach Jamie Joseph has offered an alarming insight into why the increasing player drain to Japan is becoming a huge headache for Australian rugby.
On top of Brisbane product James Moore excelling for Japan at the 2019 World Cup, Joseph last week selected three more Australians in his 50-man training squad after in-form centre Dylan Riley and classy back-rowers Jack Cornelsen and Ben Gunter all became eligible for defection.
As if the exodus of Test stars including incumbent Wallabies captain Michael Hooper and fellow World Cup stalwarts Will Genia, Bernard Foley and Quade Cooper to Japan wasn’t already a major worry, the prospect of more and more of Australia’s brightest young prospects chasing millions of Yen could prove catastrophic long term.
Stressing he wasn’t specifically talking about the Australians in his squad, Joseph admitted “financially there’s massive incentives for those type of (uncapped) players to go over to Japan”.
Wallabies coach Dave Rennie has already expressed his concern, saying cash-strapped Rugby Australia simply can’t compete financially with Japan’s Top League clubs who are backed by billion-dollar corporations like Robbie Deans’ undefeated Panasonic Wild Knights.
Deans earlier this year told AAP the Top League had become the “new destination of choice” because of its unique, back-to-the-future model and the country’s wholesome lifestyle.
Fellow Kiwi Joseph tends to agree, saying it’s not only the money that is luring players away from New Zealand and Australia.
“A player like myself, who did play for the All Blacks and then came to Japan, what I did is I fell in love with the country,” Joseph said.
“I learnt the language. I adapted really well and my wife enjoyed it and there’s a lot of people like that now.
“For families and young couples, it’s quite a nice place to play rugby and I guess set yourselves up for the next stage of your lives.”
Joseph can appreciate the concerns about the threat Japan poses to Australian rugby, but think it’s too early to speculate about any potential long-term damage.
“Who knows if they would have been in the Wallabies squad or not. “It’s very difficult to say,” he said of Riley, Cornelsen and Gunter.
“But every union that loses a big number of players that leave their home shores to go and ply their trade elsewhere, there’s always going to be a wee bit of a sore point.
“In this case, with the lads that I’ve selected in this particular time, they’ve only just become eligible, they love Japan, we’ve had chats about their commitment going forward, they want to play Test rugby.
“So there’s a little bit of internal criteria that’s important to us as coaches before we actually select players to play for Japan.”
Joseph stressed that none of the trio had been capped for Japan yet – but he clearly rates all three highly.
“Physically, all three of the Australian boys that have been selected in the squad are a lot stronger, a lot more powerful and have been playing rugby a lot longer than the local Japanese guys,” he said.
“And generally when you’re looking at the foreign players, they’re contributing to the physical side of the game, which is lacking through genetics (of the Japanese). Nothing more.
“Or the experience and composure that they show.”
Like Moore did, Riley and Cornelsen – the son of Wallaby Greg Cornelsen, who famously scored four tries in a Bledisloe Cup Test – arrived in Japan looking for opportunities after being unwanted by Australian Super Rugby clubs.
Deans enticed Gunter to Japan and Joseph said the chance to develop players like him from a young age was appealing.
He cited Moore, a lock hailing from Brisbane State High School, as a prime example.
“He (Moore) came over with very little rugby (accomplishments) but showed some good qualities,” Joseph said.
“And over the course of two years we were able to develop him into a very good rugby player and he excelled at the World Cup.
“But he would not have been playing for Australia, mate.”
Broken Shoulder
Roar Rookie
Yes Chook, and what an amazing place to be. I've been lucky enough to visit Japan on 3 occasions and each time has just made me love it more. The people, food, culture and nature are incredible. If I was given the same chance, I wouldn't think twice. Toowong is alright though...
Hugh_96
Roar Pro
I guess it's the challenge of professional sport picking and keeping the right talent. No doubt in Oz we will make mistakes, also it depends on the coach, how they want to play and who are their favourites. Inevitably some that we think are great wont fit into coach Rennie's plans. The positive for players is they have so many opportunities overseas, the end of rugby in Oz isn't the end of their rugby career. I'm just looking forward to how they juggle all this young talent.
tuohyred
Roar Rookie
Above all else, Jamie J. and Tony Brown can pick talent and develop it. NZ's loss that he is not AB coach. Go where the coaching and culture is good - in Oz Brumbies. JJ is very smart and does not suffer fools. A Very Hard Man - got a red card playing #6 for ABs. JJ and Tony Brown picked up Aaron Smith, Sopoanga and Naholo. All developed well in the Highlander culture and under their man-management. Won SR with a "workmanlike" pack and few, selected and developed, stars.
Force14
Roar Rookie
There are a lot of very good players that have had to leave Australia under ARU's NSW/QLD-centric politics and focus... Japan is where you go after TOP14! For me TOP14 is arguably the best comp in the world ATM. Let's pick the best team we can independent of where they are playing.
Perthstayer
Roar Rookie
If I was busting my gut in Oz to better my WBs chances but see wealthy FIFO guys take the spots then I'd find it hard to reconcile staying. For me it's everyone playing overseas or no-one.
fiwiboy7042
Roar Rookie
If the July internationals are to be sacrificed, so will the November internationals and the NH unions won't like that.
JC
Roar Rookie
Rennie can select two players under 60 caps -- the amendment was introduced last year in response to the dire shortage of locks, and the possible need to call in Arnold. But in the end Arnold got injured, Philip (re)emerged strongly, Salakaia-Loto and Simmons were mostly solid, and Hosea was showing promise so Rennie didn't need to use the amended rule. He's since basically said that he prefers players to be playing Super Rugby in Australia -- quite right, too, in my opinion.
tsuru
Roar Rookie
Yes Hugh. “ We just need to ensure we can pick the right ones to stay in Oz to ensure we remain.” This is what worries me in the immediate future. At the moment Oz has what seems to be an extraordinary group of young inside backs all pushing through at the same time – Lolesio, Pasitoa, Harrison, Donaldson, Kuenzle, Carter Gordon, Edmed, (have I missed someone?). It’s pretty sure they’re not all going to be in Oz in a year or two. Which ones are going to develop to those next couple of levels? We’ve just seen how we can mistake our judgement of Donaldson (not you Jez, I know you’ve been mentioning him all year). As Objective Observer says below, “ What Aus Super rugby has not been good at is identifying the talent and keeping it here.” So we’ve identified this talent. Now which ones do we really want/need to keep? And how?
Muzzo
Roar Rookie
Well many from the south in Te Waipounamu, know & appreciate, as to what Jamie Joseph is & was as a player & now a quality international coach he is. After all he was as a player, for Otago, being part of that tremendous back three in their pack. Like with him at blindside, Aaron Pene at last man down, & Josh Kronfield on the open side. I doubt there was a better back three in the country. Even Zinzan Brooke, at the time keep the bench warm when Pene was there. As a coach, of the Japanese National team, he's had the ability, of getting his charges up, to beat Tier One opposition, along the way. Not forgetting his close association with current Landers coach Tony Brown, who when both were coaching the Landers, did take them to their one & only Super Rugby Title.
woodart
Guest
good post hugh96, career pathways in sport etc. and very good point about difference between pro rugby athlete and league/aussie rule athlete. to be a good pro rugby athlete and choose the right career path can easily set you and your family up for life . many players blossom (see what I did) away from home, especially in a truly foreign country .we would all like to see our best stay home, but ever since our ancestors first stood upright and thought," whats over there," it wont stop. but the reverse is also happening. young japanese players coming to NZ to play rugby, falling in love with the country, career paths etc.
JC
Roar Rookie
Spot on, Jez. The guys who are just interested in money will go anyway. For the others, great development programs, competitive/successful teams, health and welfare, prep for life after rugby etc are all important.
Objective Observer
Roar Rookie
Yes but as you highlight many of the young players that go are “unwanted” at home or toward the end of their career. What Aus Super rugby has not been good at is identifying the talent and keeping it here. There are a few examples of wanted players that leave and Will Skelton is a good example but most of those who are knocking on the door for a Walaby spot stay. It is AFL that is the real problem, losing almost half of the country to a domestic sport of no interest to the rest of the world but that problem is probably not capable of being solved.
JC
Roar Rookie
Odd for an experienced rugby journo to reference the loss of Hooper, Genia, Cooper and Foley as a big worry when Hooper was always going to return and the others were at the end of their Test careers anyway. The bigger concern is perhaps the exit of the likes of McMahon and Kerevi in their mid-20s. But if it’s more important to them to earn an extra half a million and have a nice lifestyle than play for their country, with all the sacrifice that entails, then good luck to them. However, transfer fees are something we should look at to ensure compensation for the investment in players’ development.
Hugh_96
Roar Pro
The reality there is nothing you can do about the opportunities that Japan provide – playing rugby is now as much a career opportunity as anything else. People in business/ academia etc head overseas all the time for opportunities, rugby is the same. We just need to ensure we can pick the right ones to stay in Oz to ensure we remain competitive. And big picture a strong Japanese comp is good for rugby internationally, it also highlights the differences between rugby and League/ AFL. Listened to a great chat on the RugbyKO podcast with a young country bloke Will Grant playing in the NZ Mitre 10 comp, he is just loving it – he went over there after school just to play rugby
Machooka
Roar Guru
Fascinating insight into present day rugby over in Japan... regardless of the possible negatives for Aussie rugby. Thanks Darren :thumbup: I don't know if this is being overlooked... but if anyone has spent some time in Japan they'll probably appreciate how all this has come about. Firstly, the country is just such a crazy mad (as in good crazy mad) place to spend any time in. Add to that they absolutely love their rugby... so why, then, wouldn't you want to go there, as a young bloke, whether you're on the fringes of SR or National selection or not, and have a crack?! What a perfect way to broaden one's horizons, learn all about a new culture... and most importantly have a blast doing so. Then there's the money. The massive Yen on offer! Sure, it's not for everyone... but believe me, if I'd had the chance to do similar, back in the day, I'd be off in a flash. It'd be like going to a worldly university for 4-6 years, getting trained and skilled-up... and, in the process, being paid (handsomely) for doing so!?! :thumbup: :rugby: :happy:
Geoff
Guest
Can they keep captain babypants hooper, he is not wanted back in Australia. We have better sevens here. Mcmahon destroyed him when they played against each other in JAPAN.Just goes to show how poor a player he really is.
2 Bob
Guest
Include Japan in SR. Allow a player, playing for a team domiciled in another country, to remain eligible for their country of origin. This will provide a larger market for SR by including Japan, and therefore more money. It can also increase the competitiveness of the competition by distributing talent across the participating teams. It could also provide greater interest in a game between two foreign teams, as it could be possible to have Wallabies playing in both teams. Probably more important, creating more interest for the Japanese market to watch Aussie or NZ teams play, because there is a Japanese player playing. It can also improve player depth of each nation. All nations, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga can benefit. It can also lend itself to other nations players playing, such as Argentinian and South Africian to play. This change should be made in conjunction with changing the Rugby Championship into the Southern Hemisphere 6 Nations. ie Rugby Championship which includes Japan and Fiji. Do you think this could work?
Cheika_Mate
Roar Rookie
Cannot wait to see big Warren V in Tah colours. The last time I was excited over a signing was Potsy. Warren is an absolute athlete and dead set the tahs are lucky to get him back in Sydney. Yep has played centre and anywhere in the back row, no 8 looks to be his home. Could be the one the Cherry Blossoms rue that got away.
Gerry
Roar Rookie
Developing the Rugby Championship into the Six Nations South that is South Africa New Zealand Australia Argentina Japan and Pacific Islands would be incredible. Then a South v North comp would really be something to watch perhaps replacing the November Tests we currently have to be held in alternate hemispheres once a year obviously in the winters of both.
JD Kiwi
Roar Rookie
Re Brodie, I said I was ok with sabbaticals, although he will have to put some muscle mass back on. But we have very few potential first choice All Blacks playing offshore and none permanently in Japan. So we have little to gain and much to lose.