It's not just the Wallabies - Australasian rugby is withering on the vine as self-interest, arrogance and denial take hold

Advantage should last for maximum two phases.

1. Disband (annual) comps that involve any mish-mashing of time zones. 2. Avoid (annual) comps that are inherently uncompetitive. 3. If you want to test your mettle against South Africa or Argentina this year, then fly there for a 3 game test series - better than flying to 3 different countries, for 1 solitary game against each one? 4. Minimise costs and player burnout from excessive travel (within our own region). 5. National selection requires you to play bulk of senior rugby - up until 25th birthday - in comp approved for that purpose (idea is to encourage younger players to stay local as long as possible; carrot that if they wait until 25th birthday, can be selected for national team, for 1st or 100th time). 6. Tie youth development benefits to local commitment until 25th birthday (code & geography). 7. Reduce Oz and NZ playing salaries consistent with possibilities afforded by 1 to 5 above. 8. In Australia, split QLD into two and NSW into three (both 'on' and 'off' field). eg instead of NSW Rugby having 3 votes at Rugby Australia, each of the NSW sub-sectors has an individual vote. WHAT COULD HAPPEN AT FLAGSHIP CLUB LEVEL? By way of explanation. In NSW, "Western NSW" is based at Parramatta Stadium. Its catchment includes all western NSW 'west of the great dividing range' (except bit claimed by Brumbies). East-west boundary in Sydney is drawn, so that major clubs Eastwood and West Harbour, plus major rugby schools Joeys and Kings (as well as every boarding school west of the divide) falls within the natural catchment of "Wests" - in addition with the sprawling western Sydney suburbs. The rest of NSW is divided into 'Northern NSW" and "Southern NSW". "Norths" are based in North Sydney and get all of the traditional rugby heartland (schools and clubs) on the (lower and upper) North Shore and Northern Beaches peninsula; plus the North Coast (including Newcastle). "Souths" are based in Moore Park and get Shute Clubs Randwick, Southern Districts, Easts plus major rugby schools Scots, Newington and Waverley. Plus 3 major universities. The above 3 regions, have the potential "to go off" in terms of tribalism. Might start as "clusters of private school old boys" v "clusters of private school old boys", but what's wrong with some DNA? Split QLD sensible into similar potentially tribal alliances, and we have the POTENTIAL (JUST) for a naturally balanced domestic comp, which combined with salary suggestions, is a genuine acorn. WHAT COULD HAPPEN AT PROVINCIAL LEVEL? Traditional 20th century fierce interstate rivalry between two teams - NSW and QLD - could be resurrected. Each of the following 3 teams plays each other in a single game annually. That means each provincial team gets only 1 home game each year. Rotate whom you play at home annually. DOMESTIC PROVINCIAL COMP = total of 3 games played out over 3 consecutive weekends. SALARY COST = zero (you are playing 3 games, for glory only, including selection as Wallaby). Team 1: Waratahs - provincial rep team of Western Magpies, Northern Bears, Southern Convicts (see flagship clubs above); Team 2: Maroons - provincial rep team of the two QLD flagship club teams; Team 3: BestofRestofOz - provincial rep team of other five teams in domestic flagship comp. I have not allowed for interests of Fiji, Samoa, Tonga or Japan. Above set up in Australia, would yield benefits for whatever annual or other "provincial" or "inter-nation" games, that Oz could offer any of them, and NZ, as we (Oz) will be well worth playing. Cheers KP

Rugby just has to accept that it is the 4th choice code in Australia, and it is not there because of the shortcomings of the administration, (although they have certainly not helped). The Australian sporting public have looked at all codes and decided that they like rugby the least, (it isn't actually the game they play in heaven), it is slow, messy,stop start and generally played by guys who couldn't get a game in other codes. If you are small, fit and fast play soccer, if you are average sized and fit and fast, play afl, if you are big and fit, not so fast, play nrl. What's left play rugby, unless you have a cultural connection but that won't last more than a couple of generations. Rugby needs to adopt the soccer model instead of trying to compete with afl/nrl. Run a grass roots model with semi professional teams at the top and allow the best players to go overseas and then bring them back for the national team.

Well Ewan McKenzie was doing great and then got outed by politicians. The ability is here. I fancy World Rugby needs to rid itself of Bill Beaumont, the Clown Prince who has watched over the over-refereed game and failed at every turn. The game is a poor spectacle with 28mins out of 80 mins of the ball being in play. The referees dominate the outcomes with their calls , often flawed but thats acceptable. The players already get binned for most everything. So I reckon take the refs out of the result by having one point penalties. They bin persistent offenders so the only difference may be the referees deciding the winner of each game, as they often do.

Defensive about the old goats.....??? Jeez, I can't wait for them to vote themselves, out the door. Oh and you wonder about the last 20 years - well, where the heck were your concerns when the 2 Steve's, both RnB blokes, were running the show in the office and on the paddock??? And, we got another RnB bloke up on the office roost, crowing all he wants....spine you ask?? Did any of those 3 blokes show any spine, to call the PU's bluff, over the last 20years?? I bloody doubt it but now look where things are.....up a bloody creek without a paddle so thanks, to the 3 RnB stooges who've been sitting in the box seats, these past 20years. Oh and that's right - when it comes to steering the ABs around the paddock, we've had a Grizz, a Dingo and a Professor - awwww shucks, all former RnB blokes. Did you ever feel the urge to come out and criticise, over the past few decades..??

If you gonna solve a problem, first you have to recognise the magnitude of it. That was what my post was about. Not whining. Describing. I'm not suprised you're so defensive about the old goats now they're heading out the door. For as long as I've been reading this website [and its just a website, with no influence on events, so I'm not giving the OG's any ammunition] you and other old fashioned kiwi conservatives have defended the OG's right to run the game, even if it is into the ground. You've rejected provincial amalgamations and the complete subordination of provincial rugby to Super Rugby, something that should have happened within 5 years of professionalism. Now you seem to be in favour of it, given your other posts in this thread, at least by implication. Better twenty years late than never. So, will the turkey's actually vote for Christmas? Will the provincial unions finally come to the realisation that clinging to their dictatorship will result only in the collapse of the thing they claim they love? I assume you've read the full report. Its a full, unequivocal exposure of what a bigoted, woman-hating collection of old fools inhabit the administration of the provincial game in NZ. They're so clueless they were actually honest about their contempt for diversity, as well as their rejection of accountability. As for what the way ahead is, well, impose the findings of the review, everything it states, everything it implies. Stop pretending that professional rugby can be run out of small town NZ. Ask how many Provincial unions have the size and ability to promoted to professionalism, have the courage to draw a dividing line, then impose it. And stop pretending an executive for a global business of more than US $200m annual revenue has any slots for people who have done nothing more than climb the greasy pole of provincial administration. Shame its gonna take a woman who has never played the game to get the provincial unions out the door, the very diversity they hate. Shame no one in NZR at any stage over teh last twenty or so years had the spine to call the provincial unions bluff and dare them to defend their unearned privileges. But maybe, just maybe, with the utterly appalling example of Australian rugby's decline playing out in front of them, the provincial unions will finally recognise just how out of their depth they are. And the sooner the better.

If NZ wish to run the ball from all parts of the pitch every time they get possession there’s nothing in the laws of the game preventing them, and what England may or may not do is irrelevant. You’ve just racked up 96 points against Italy. Strangely enough, the laws of the game seemed absolutely perfect between 2011 and Saturday 26 October 2019. At that exact point, and ever since, apparently, the ‘laws of the game’ became an abomination. It seems there’s a direct correlation between how ‘good’ the laws are and the All Blacks world ranking.

Your point BRnB is.....what?? If you are so upset about NZR's current and future prospects, then why the hell, are you still whining about it - give it up mate. You're just giving those old goats who are running the sport, the ammunition to fight back and hold onto their positions, to run the game. Maybe, just maybe......is not the answer NZ rugby is looking for. It has to be more than that....

Id rather not have something to complain about Ouch. Sadly the results are definately worthy of complaint and some of the suggested solutions are just telling other countries to do as they are told and we will make rugby great again at everyone elses expense. All very complaint worthy. However if you believe its all hunky dory thats ok too.

it’s like both of you want to be oppressed just so you’ve got something to complain about.

For me there has been a long protracted attempt to stifle the running game of rugby which the southern hemisphere countries did so well back in the 80s, 90s and 00's. Rugby is now just a kick and penalty fest which suits the drab northern teams.

Im not so sure. I see the anti NZ stances on here every day and I see the strong anti NZ rants from RA and from Eddie so feel a comp that an NZ side wins again wont be popular in Aus. Very few wanted the Warriors to win this year. They just jumped on a band wagon but reality is the Warriors were genuinely never a chance of beating either the Bronco's or the Panthers so becoming a warriors supporter for a day didnt matter.

completely correct jacko

Who would want Hamish or ra involved in partnerships ,nz may have its ups and downs but im sure there's people working on it as we speak

Brings back memories allright the frozen grounds family's present. Midweek games for school then club rugby again on Saturdays in nelson in 70s. Loved watching the midgets half our team had younger brothers in midgets. Its key for rugby get the kids interested early build friendships for years

will Aus public accept an NZ team winning an Aus comp thats the point i'm trying to make - it won't be an Aussie comp. it will be a combined NZ/Aus competition. if it were strictly an Aussie comp, the Aussie public would not care who won. everyone i know wanted the Warriors to win the NRL this year. it's not like the old days anymore. i think most (not all) people are past the hardocre parochialism.

New Zealand rugby as a whole [not the fishheads in the NZR, though they are a part of this] seems finally to be willing to have a long, hard and above all honest look at itself. What will it see if it does? A men's game that is declining in numbers and performance far faster than the womens game is improving in numbers and performance. A men's NPC competition that entered into a long, slow decline in 2006 when instead of cutting teams to 8 from 10 when the All Blacks were removed instead expanded numbers to 14. Had the numbers been cut to 8 NZ rugby as a whole would now have a viable alternative to SR, and therefore something to build on and threaten Australia with if it started behaving like it is at the moment. Instead it has a train wreck, a mockery of what the NPC used to be, and all because NZ rugby wimped out and put inclusivity ahead of excellence. A Super Rugby competition that has been treated as little more than a series of trial matches for the All Blacks rather than a competition that was valuable in and of itself. In turn, super rugby teams in NZ that have been thoroughly mismanaged and at times utterly incompetent. Only now are the Highlanders, Hurricanes, Blues and Chiefs starting to realise what professionalism actually means. None of which involves whining about other teams achievements or demanding to have their All Blacks because you are too incompetent to develop your own. And to top that off, they'll realise that old school, old boy politics makes for a genuinely incompetent All Blacks head coach. Who knows, maybe teh old goats who run the sport in this country are finally going to be put out to pasture. Maybe, just maybe, NZ rugby will survive as world class, rather than the shambles its become.

Midgets! That's an old term . . . I was a midget for Tukapa (Taranaki) at I think age 5. Memories of torture of barefoot games on frost-covered fields (is that the real grassroots?) while parents huddled sideline in their overcoats. Around 25 years later I refereed in the annual Queen's birthday tournament hosted at Tukapa grounds, senior/premier grade refs in their full ref uniforms - a first for the kids who usually had a parent or two on the whistle. Serious business (just don't step on their toes).

I just feel the time is ripe for a separate domestic comp Ouch. SR doesnt make money now so losing money for the domestic comps isnt something they have to drop to its already that way. I believe Aus in particular needs to get away from the success that is NZ rugby and forge their own path for a while. Being constantly compared to NZ rugby does them no good. I then believe NZR needs to get away from RA for a while too. The toxicity of RAs boss, and the constant demands RA make, is just a constant insult to NZR and we should do without that for a while. NZR will survive with its own domestic comp. Rugby is actually growing in NZ with viewing numbers increased for this years SR comp by 8% and NZ would embrace a NPC revamp and local only comp. We know a complete review has been done and we know some of the issues but not all as yet. NZR is expecting recommending changes based on the report by mid April next year so if anything is going to be done its NOW. RA is in massive trouble and NZR certainly dont need to be pushed into some money grab or player grab by RA. If they really want to do some sort of post domestic comp crossover with Japan if they are interest, and Fiji, NZ, Aus no probs but its time to seperate and sign the divorce papers quickly. You say a comp has potential to be maybe half what NRL gets, well will Aus public accept an NZ team winning an Aus comp? I see such strong evidence to say NO. Aus fans are sick of losing to NZ sides. I cant see how they will change that any time soon.

Everyones missing the point that the AFL is massively cashed up and will continue to dominate the sporting landscape in Australia for the next 20 years. Time to combine ARU and NRL and shake up the market and collectively work together. It would give us a combined 700 professional player base to choose a national side!