The “personal” battle between Noah Lolesio and Carter Gordon for the Wallabies No.10 jersey is shaping as a highlight of the new World Cup cycle and former Wallaby fly-half Matt Toouma will be riveted by it when it resumes on Friday night.
Gordon’s Rebels coach Kevin Foote acknowledged the rivalry between his 23-year-old charge and the 24-year-old Brumbies playmaker this week.
“It is personal, I think it is personal, that’s the truth of it,” Foote said.
“There’s a new Wallabies coach on top of that, so they’ll be playing for positions. There’s the British and Irish Lions coming, Wales Tests come July.”
Lolesio was seemingly rattled by Gordon’s rise last year, which took the Rebels youngster to the World Cup as Eddie Jones’ first choice No.10. That decision backfired, culminating in Gordon’s early removal in the loss to Fiji and his benching against Wales.
While Gordon endured a miserable team performance at the World Cup, Lolesio was refining his game in Toulon after signing a short-term deal with the French outfit.
It led Toomua, who has played with both youngsters, to wonder if Lolesio might reflect that he was lucky not to go to the World Cup, while saying Gordon was “stitched up” by how he was handled by the Wallabies.
Toomua, a co-host of The Roar Rugby Podcast, said he was keen to see how all the young No.10s fare this season, but especially Lolesio as he tries to win back his gold jersey.
“At the start of the last World Cup cycle, he was probably the number one 10 there for a while and then had a really significant drop off in selection towards the end,” Toomua said.
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Noah Lolesio of the Brumbies scores a try during the round 11 Super Rugby Pacific match between Melbourne Rebels and ACT Brumbies at AAMI Park, on May 07, 2023, in Melbourne, Australia. (Photo by Daniel Pockett/Getty Images)
“But he’s gone to Toulon, he had an amazing time there and, from what I saw, he played really well. So, it’ll be interesting to see how he benefits from that experience. I think that’ll do him wonders.
“I’m interested in Max Burey from the Force. I thought he was quality last year – quite a sensible player. Tom Lynagh, I like the way he controls the game, whether or not he gets a first crack at that, we’ll see.
“But I think he’s got that little bit more. Maybe not an offload, sidestep kind of fly-half but just someone who you can build a game around, which I think will be really good.”
Toomua questions the succession planning as the baton passed from the older cohort he was part of with Quade Cooper and Bernard Foley to the younger guys.
“You look how Noah was managed and look at how Carter was managed, and you look at the end of the four years and you say ‘who’s in the better spot?’ and it’s an interesting one.
“Noah was given the reins right from the get go. I know when I was at Wallabies he was given five or six games starting. I think that’s the way to go in terms of allowing guys to have confidence, but I just get quite frustrated how we manage our 10s.”
He gave the example of his contemporary Aaron Cruden, who played 50 times for the All Blacks.
“By the time we played each other in under 20s I had 30-odd Super caps and he had none. The next year he was well ahead of me in terms of his development, a much better player, a much more rounded player, where I was kind of picking up scraps because I’d probably been given too much too early,” said Toomua.
“I just saw that happen again with Noah. He got given a lot early, whereas he would have been much better just to develop over time. Ten is a very hard position, particularly for goalkickers. You’ve got higher line speed tens now, which is really difficult.”
Toomua said he thought Gordon was being well managed “right up until the World Cup then I feel like we lost a year or two of development with him.”
Carter Gordon. (Photo by Warren Little/Getty Images)
“He was developing so well, he was physically ready to play Test rugby – you saw that in the way he tackles and way takes the ball to the line, and then I feel like we stitched him up with the World Cup.
“I don’t know if he’s better for that World Cup experience. I don’t know who’s better – Noah or Carter – in terms of experience from that World Cup.
“Carts went to it, sure. But is that the experience that you want to have? Is that really helpful? I’m not certain. It will be interesting to see how both those guys respond because it’s been very different journeys and I dare say Noah might be saying it was ‘a little blessing in disguise I didn’t go to the World Cup’.”
Gordon and Lolesio are both off contract at season’s end.
ThugbyFan
Roar Guru
"coach" EddieJ dissed C.Gordon on the basis that he couldn't play unstructured headless chook rugby against Fiji despite getting monstered with massive hits from slow ball. Eddie then selected his Randwick "love-in" B.Donaldson to show them how to play the Randwick way in the Wales match. That went well! The last sight of poor befuddled Eddie was him in the stands sobbing that he couldn't get his mate Jorgo's son a run in the side. I found it strange that everyone raved about Donaldson's match against Georgia on the basis that he scored two tries gifted to him. The 1st was from a nice C.Gordon cut-out pass about 5 metres from the Georgia line and the 2nd was the freakish intercept and run from T.Tupou, who then passed to Donaldson for a clear run to the line. Give Ben some kudos as he got into the position to receive those passes but his job was "catch ball and run". To me B.Donaldson is a good player at times but he is a "confidence" player. When he first played for the Tahs, he was a breath of fresh air as he kept putting players through gaps with neat short passes. I felt it more to do with finally some structure in the Tahs' attack and a #10 (BenD) who understood and was capable of seeing the plays. If he can get to that level and keep it there then he is a big chance of the gold jersey. C.Gordon, he got the raves and selection on the basis of his play at the Rebels, which depended on the team playing team rugby, everyone was on the same page. Poor Gordon gets into the WB and the team is told "just run like the Ella boys at Randwick, doing your own thing and the defences will go up in smoke". We all know how well that went. :shocked: :angry:
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
:thumbup:
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
Absolutely. He’s not a mini-Kerevi.
Muglair
Roar Rookie
That is a blue sky, not a glass ceiling. Petaia still the answer for a lot of people, while I sit here confused about the question.
Don
Roar Rookie
I haven't called for QC to be selected. Just calling out when people make stuff up to rubbish a bloke with a better test record that almost every player we've selected in the last decade.
Dusty10
Roar Rookie
Love it, Busted, love it :)
Hoy
Roar Guru
Injured, but he also has to be used the right way.
Hoy
Roar Guru
Yeah, nah, just reds... blokes only played three reds trial games... I mean reds.
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
G’day SD. That was exactly the problem suffered by Mark Loane, good enough for provincial rugby but too early for test. Thankfully he had the character to become one of our greatest Wallabies when he was really ready for the rigours of test rugby.
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
Or is he playing under the Petaia ceiling?
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
I think Paisami was more injured than out of form.
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
All positions are!
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
G’day D10. You didn’t have to go to League to talk about youngsters, though nice to see you included a Q’lder in Sterlo (born just outside Toowoomba in Pittsworth). I’ll give you three, one of them from NSW, Mark Ella, Michael Lynagh, Elton Flatley. Let me give you my idea of one of the reasons these blokes were able to succeed. They were educated at a time when we didn’t worry about developing youngsters’ self esteem and we didn’t have to give everyone a participation certificate.
Busted Fullback
Roar Rookie
G’day jez. Two points. Gordon overplays his hand? No surprise there as, for years, his mentor was White. Coleman has 4 weeks? I hope the worldwide search of the car park at Moore Park has begun. Wait a minute, the search will be controlled by RA thanks to centralisation. Hope they’re not going to be searching in the same places they found their Strength and Conditioning staff. I’ll weep for you Saturday night, but only after cheering my boys on. :happy: :laughing:
Brumby Jack's acquaintance
Roar Rookie
The roar reported it. But not having seen much of it myself I can't contest
Ankle-tapped Waterboy
Roar Rookie
I have read through all thearticle and these comments and seeing the pressure and performance demanded it seems at odds with the comment of former Wallaby Head Coach Mr Jones that Australian Rugby wasn't allowing players to harden up. Something is not adding up.
Cec
Roar Rookie
Tony, look at all this debate created for just one position and we’re only in round 1. The selection of 10 for Wales may impact two or more positions. If CG gets first choice vs Wales then I think Lonergan goes to 9 as he can actually kick. If NL is first choice then he’ll take the kicking and Tate, Ryan or Finnes can go to 9. I wonder if Joe will keep selecting for continuity like all those Leinster players for IRE. I’m not saying this should happen.
Cec
Roar Rookie
Tony. Look at all this interest created in just one position for round 1. But I think the 10 selection this year will impact two positions. If Carter gets first crack at Wales then Lonergan comes in at 9 as he can definitely kick. If Noah comes in as a starter then you can have Finnes, Tate or Lonergan at 9 with Noah an 80% kick at test level.
Cec
Roar Rookie
Selection to avoid defections is not a valid reason to chuck teenagers into the deep end. I’m not sure NRL is that big a draw card for rugby 10s who don’t want to get banged up or take more high shots.
Cec
Roar Rookie
Hoy. If you’re talking Reds for HMP then yea for sure but if you meant for WB then 2-3 more years please. If HMP is a running 10 then I wouldn’t let guys like Steph du Toit anywhere near him just yet. AUS A makes more sense to me.