Here’s a fun game you can play the next time you hear someone say there isn’t enough talent for NRL expansion: go look through the team lists for the last two weekends of reserve grade and pick the best side you can.
In fact, go one better: pick two.
The Roar did exactly this as a thought experiment, a chance to take stock of the stocks, if you will, of depth in the NRL – more on which later.
While we love to get hyped about the next big thing coming through, what is most noticeable watching reggies is the number of names that are recognisable, either older blokes who have dropped down a level or fringe first graders biding their time until the next opportunity arises.
Beneath the top grade, there are two competitions, the NSW Cup and the Queensland Cup, and beneath that, a third grade and a raft of junior comps, but this is just the seconds that we’re worried about.
In Australia, each first grade squad has 30 members plus perhaps five or six supplemental players that don’t count to the salary cap, either train and trial deals or developmental deals.
That makes roughly 600 male players who you could call first graders, as in guys with an NRL contract, plus a raft of other blokes who run around in reggies on part-time money either because they haven’t given up the dream of getting another crack or because they quite like the lifestyle of having a second, pretty well paid job.
You might expand that 600 to almost a thousand players who derive the biggest portion of their income from playing rugby league, especially if you factor in those playing out in the bush who get jobs as a result of their playing skill, even if they aren’t directly paid for their work.
Compare that with cricket, where there are a hugely limited number of professional jobs for players, or soccer, where there are more jobs but far worse paid, and you’re looking at a decent career choice for a multi-sport athlete.
This is before considering how much better a prospect rugby league is for you if you are female, where the NRLW trumps all as far as cash and pathways are concerned.
The huge expansion in active players is no accident, either.
The greater salary cap available in the NRL has increased the minimum wage for players 20-30 on the list, which incentivises them to stick around and keep playing when otherwise they might have dropped out, and it also keeps fringe players interested in having another crack.
Dylan Napa. (Photo by Matt King/Getty Images)
The smartest clubs also know that the depth options available to them might be the difference in the middle of the year when Origin, injuries and suspensions begin to bite.
The Roosters have carried Dylan Napa for over a year – and had Nathan Brown prior to his move to Manly – while the Panthers have made an artform of getting second-string halves to use when inevitably Nathan Cleary and Jarome Luai are missing, not to mention the likes of Tyrone Peachey as a utilitarian back-up.
The Sea Eagles followed that lead, locking in the likes of Brown, Matt Lodge and Aaron Woods to fringe deals and then keeping them in reserve, confident that they would fit in more readily than a rookie.
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That adds the ability to time when you give debuts out, picking opportune moments rather than throwing them in at the deep end, while also letting your young players feature alongside experienced pros, with all the benefits that it brings.
It’s as much about culture as it is depth.
Speaking to The Roar League Podcast, Canberra NSW Cup coach Brock Shepperd, who has also been in the systems at Manly, Penrith, Mounties and the Wests Tigers, described the impact that the older guys can have on bringing the pathway along.
Jarrod Croker. (Photo by Mark Nolan/Getty Images)
“Last year, Jarrod Croker played half the year with the NSW Cup and he’s now doing a little bit of coaching on the side, specialised coaching with NRL and Cup,” he said of the Canberra legend.
“The way that our young players speak about the impact that he had on them (is amazing), not only in relation to how cool it is to play with someone like that but also how much he can develop a player as a coach on the field, a coach at training who’s got that respect because he’s only just come out of the game.
“Trying to keep those guys in and around NRL systems and in NSW and Queensland Cup would be hugely beneficial, because it assists the development of those young players so much.
“Not so much the technical and tactical, but it could be a little conversation here and there and a little tip in relation to something really specific.
“They are vital. Absolutely vital. We don’t have enough of them in NSW and Queensland Cup.”
(Photo by Ian Hitchcock/Getty Images)
Anyway, those squads.
Here’s what we’re calling, for the sake of argument, the Perth Bears and the South Island Kea, made up entirely of players who featured in the last three rounds of NSW or Q Cup.
Don’t debate the clubs, but look at the talent.
Perth Bears
- Sua Faalogo
- Edrick Lee
- Michael Jennings
- Tyrone Peachey
- Nick Cotric
- Brandon Wakeham
- Lachlan Ilias
- Jarrod Wallace
- Jake Turpin
- Sean Keppie
- Siua Wong
- Corey Horsburgh
- Josh Schuster
- Daine Laurie
- Chris McQueen
- Aaron Woods
- Ethan Bullemor
South Island Kea
- Te Maire Martin
- Tesi Niu
- Marion Seve
- Paul Alamoti
- Edward Kosi
- Toby Sexton
- Jackson Hastings
- James Tamou
- Soni Luke
- Nelson Asofa-Solomona
- Ben Murdoch-Masila
- Brad Parker
- Tepai Moeroa
- Zach Dockar-Clay
- Anthony Milford
- Dylan Napa
- Siliva Havili
Nobody is saying these teams would win the NRL, but hold their own along with the bottom half? Probably.
That list has Kangaroos, Kiwis and other Test players, plus plenty of Origin experience and hundreds of NRL games.
Moreover, those 36 names don’t include the blokes who are currently in Super League but wouldn’t be if there was another 30 roster spots available.
It also doesn’t include the English players who would move to Australia if they knew that regular game time was there to be had – and as has been seen from the strong starts of Morgan Smithies at Canberra and Kai Pearce-Paul at Newcastle, there is plenty of talent to be tapped if the offer is good enough.
That the NRL can boast this much excess talent speaks to the strength of the league at the moment, which is there for anyone to see who watches reserve grade, because both state cups are about as good as they’ve ever been.
Dionysus
Roar Rookie
I guess long term would be 10 years and short term anything before that but of course the improvement would be incremental. What would be needed is the time for a new crop of players that might have left the game to come through to the elite level. The other thing I meant to say on this subject is the impact that the salary cap has on the talent available and the invisible talent that we already have. The salary cap effectively ensures that if you have X number of highly paid superstars then you must have Y number of lower grade talent in your team to balance it out even if more superstars are available to you for those positions. In this way, elite players are sometimes forced out of the game simply because funding commensurate with their talents isn't available within the cap system. Consequently the Salary Cap is a large determinant of the quality in our game. Invisible talent are those elite players, who because of a lack of opportunity in the NRL choose to ply their trade elsewhere. Sonny Bill, Koriobete, Folau, Vunivalu, Suaalli and others went to RU whilst a steady stream of players head to Superleague every year. These elite level players and more might return to the NRL should those opportunities expand. Remember that adding another team effectively expands the salary cap as well.
Dwanye
Roar Rookie
Hi Dionysus. I don’t mean it cheeky, how long do you put ‘short term and long term’ as?
Dionysus
Roar Rookie
I understand the arguments on quality and we all like to watch high quality games. Getting good quality players though is a bit of a chicken and egg argument. There are around 510 first grade jobs available in Australia so any kid that doesn't think he can make the top 510 players list or has perhaps been rejected by a club like the Broncos (more on this later) is likely to think (encouraged by parents no doubt) "Gee, I better take that Uni place or go work on my Pop's chook farm after all". We have a lot of talent in the lower grades now but how many elite players have we lost because the opportunity isn't there ? Far fetched ? Remember that Messers Smith, Slater and Cronk were all rejected before finding a lifeline in the new Melbourne club. Smith was rejected by the Broncos as not suitable for RL, Slater couldn't get a job either and was a nano second away from being a jockey for the rest of his career. We could easily have never seen the greatest No 9 or the best full back ever play this great game if we had listened to Johns at the turn of the century. Elite players might be elite at 16 or they might only emerge at 24 but if the openings are not there, we will never know that such potential talent ever existed, One of the biggest problems in Rugby today is that they have so few elite teams. Their opportunities for aspiring kids are so limited that many of them end up plying their trade in the NRL (if they are good enough) or again going into industry or some such. Their problem is a lack of critical mass which then impacts finances and has all manner of negative impacts. So if we did suddenly go to 40 teams, would quality go down ?, Yes it would in the short term but in the longer term - No
Dumbo
Roar Rookie
The two teams put together in the article reflect one underlying aspect. That is that those players that Mike has selected are guys with recognisable names. The teams don't contain guys that are unknown to sixteen seventeenths of NRL fans. Each seventeenth of the fans will know the names of at least one or two of the players in their feeder club who have been knocking on the door of NRL first-team selection, but who have never quite pushed their way through and so are completely unknown to everyone who doesn't support the club. (Mike, that's not a criticism of you. I don't expect anyone to be familiar with who's who in the zoo for every reggies team. That's the reason why each NRL club has a recruitment manager and scouts) If Mike's two teams had been put together after round 1, a couple of the contenders might have been Tuku Hau Taphua and Kayal Iro. However, they probably would not have been included because Mike is a Manly fan and can't be expected to know about Cronulla's depth players. Last week, THT and KI were in the Sharks first team. They are back again this week. (So is Billy Burns, a player whose name is quite well known, but who couldn't squeeze into the hypothetical Bears and Kea teams.) I suspect that the reggies squads for (nearly) every NRL team contains at least one "unknown" guy who would not be out of place in a first grade team. Straight away, that's an extra half squad for one of our expansion teams.
3 R M
Roar Rookie
That's right TB, it's going to happen we will go to 18 and then 20. The order should be dictated by economics and sustainability. They have given the clubs the ability to add more players and access more players so squads have really expanded past 4 devs + train and trial replace.
The Barry
Roar Guru
The first half of this article talks about how critical veteran players in reggies are to the development of younger players coming through The second half proposes trashing that so we can have two sub standard 17 player line ups The biggest question isn’t about how many players there are, it’s how many new viewers they bring in and what time slots they can play…
3 R M
Roar Rookie
There are lots of negative comments in this thread about talent but the cowboys have top 30 players not even getting a game in qcup Our squad at full strength has 23 real first graders. That's just one club, but good coaches are very thin. The dev clubs always have talent depth so the new additions to the comp must bring talent depth and pathways. If they do the comp will get stronger in the end. If they don't well the comp will take a few seasons to equalise.
3 R M
Roar Rookie
The blackhawks Bernie and still cutting it.
Dwanye
Roar Rookie
How much would this team cost in SuperCoach?
Maxtruck
Roar Rookie
Reduce the bench from 4 to 3 Reduce the squad from 30 to 27 17 clubs x 3 players per Just found 2 teams worth of current "top 30" players. Puts some pressure on recruitment managers and CEO'S, If they only had a "Top27", would the Tigers have 5 halves on the books & another coming 2025?
Bernie
Roar Rookie
James Tamou, where's he at??
Bernie
Roar Rookie
40 20, we might have giggled when Saab & Garrick left, but we truly pooped our pants with mirth when Sharons Headband departed for the beaches. but seriously, Garrick being let go is, in hindsight, a real boo-boo.
Ben Pobjie
Expert
Actually when it expanded to 20 teams it worked very well. So well that two years later there were 22.
Dwanye
Roar Rookie
Hi jimmmy. I remember on the rugby league digest a guest had looked at the data how it doesn’t spread equally, the bottom teams cop the brunt of it way more.
Horses for Courses
Roar Rookie
The issue isn't whether or not we have the footy talent running around its whether or not we have the coaching and support staff of a high enough quality to build more expansion teams. Titans having a Barry Crocker has got nothing to do with the talent they've got around the paddock.
jimmmy
Roar Rookie
You have nailed it Astro. Heaven forbid that's my team.
jimmmy
Roar Rookie
That's the ( multi ) million dollars question isn't it . I'm lucky , I love the game and I can watch Q Cup , Darwin or Gold Coast club league , or even the under 16s. I find all of it great . But most people are not me. There is a quality level below which most non Die-hards will switch off. People may find it hard to describe a low quality product but they know it when they see it. I was talking to my new neighbour the other day. He is an AFL guy from Melbourne who watches a bit of League. He said league is definitely a better game than it ever was , with the new rules making it flow. He said he watches more league than he ever has. Now he's a Friday night Broncs and Storm watcher. It's the quality that's grabbed him.
astro
Roar Rookie
I was all for expansion until seeing these teams! If the best we can pull together in a hypothetical team are youngsters that current teams would never let go (ie. Faalogo, Wong), depth players who are injury cover (ie. Parker, Alamoti, Peachey etc) and players in their final years in the comp who can get up for a game or two, but struggle across a full season (ie. Tamou, Woods, Napa, Jennings, Milford etc), then expansion could be an issue. The main worry for me, has always been depth in key positions. If two of the best available in NSW and Q Cup halves are Toby Sexton and Brandon Wakeham, that's not good news for expansion. What is more interesting to me is why some expansion teams succeed and others never seem to work out. There has to be some kind of blueprint for expansion success, but I cant see it solely rely on building a team of current NSW and Q Cup players...
matth
Roar Guru
The actual question is not whether expansion dilutes quality (of course it does, at least in the short to medium term), the question is where is the line in terms of the quality we will accept?
jimmmy
Roar Rookie
This is just such a stupid argument I don't know where to start. OK let's go the absurd route . There are enough seniors RL players for 40 teams so let's have a 40 team comp . Now is the QUALITY of play better or worse than now. ? Well of course it's worse. All the talent gets spread like butter in a boarding house. What about a 10 team comp . Is the standard of play in this comp better or worse ? Well it's heaps better. The talent is now concentrated Diluting the talent reduces the quality. It's not a difficult concept. We currently have one team who hasn't won a game and could go nil and 10 if the Raiders dont implode this week and we want to expand the comp ? I reckon 8 of their team is either not first grade standard or a couple may be marginal first graders at best. Maybe we find some NRL quality for the Titans first before we admit the Birdsville bombers.