Rugby is losing the long-term battle: What World Rugby must learn from Australia before it's too late

Reverting to the old laws might help since there's too many laws implemented already by WR and pushed by RA itself ironically.

Over the 3 European Cup QFs played yesterday, there were 30 tries. There isn’t a ‘problem’ with rugby - there’s a problem with Australian rugby.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Hi KPM, sorry I’m a bit late replying but I was watching three of the European Cup QFs yesterday. The first one was a bit of a boring kick-fest in front of 30,000 screaming French people in Bordeaux in 30 degree heat. The boring English team, Harlequins, got up to win 42-41. 12 tries scored overall, none of the Harlequins points scored by penalty kicks, only one penalty kick from Bordeaux, and the all-time knockout competition record for points scored before halftime broken. I think this record will stand for many years…oh, wait, it stood for 3 hours before it was broken by the Northampton - Bulls QF. Another 12 tries with only one penalty kick for points and another match in which the boring English team didn’t kick a single penalty. Sandwiched in between was Leinster v La Rochelle, in front of 50,000 in which not far short of the Ireland national team beat last years champions. A mere 6 tries scored in this borefest. The favourites Toulouse take on a young underdog English Exeter team this afternoon in the final match. After that we can sit down in the ‘North’ and talk about how on Earth we’re going to change things so that we can try and match the pace, intensity, skill and excitement of the Reds - Moana Pasifika game I snored through yesterday morning.

We need to stop mistaking the woes of the game here which have been caused by decades of poor managements and administration with the state of the game internationally. Which has allowed the game to stagnate and fester. Internationally the contest between the two codes isn't even close. Rugby is striding ahead. The overall quality of play has been great across pretty much every competition this year. Including SRP for the record. The three games I watched over Friday and Saturday were all hugely entertaining. Even the quality of the Super W competition this year has been the best I've seen so far. This year the Premiership, URC, Top 14 and JRLO have all seen increased viewership and attendances. The Champions Cup Ro16 and 1/4 over the last fortnight have been immense. Even the developing leagues in the likes of MLR and SRA have seen growth particularly in the quality of play. The Rugby European Championship probably just had their best season yet. Crowds were up quite a bit particularly in the likes of Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Spain and Portugal. Both Portugal and Georgia both participated in the recent u18s internationals in Europe and put forth very good showings. On the women's side the first edition of the WXV set up seems to have worked out better than WR had hoped across all three tiers. The Women's 6Ns is currently underway and is being played in front of strong crowds. Hell, there's even been the announcement of a new professional league set to be launched in the US in 2025. Not everything is perfect. There's still things that need to be done to improve the overall flow of the game. But to suggest that internationally the game is in trouble is alarmist and not founded in reality. Hell, if we had competent administration here that knew how to manage and promote the game particularly that of SRP and not just solely focused on the Wallabies things would be much healthier.

Go Google it. Go Google what the Unions said when they talked about helping to make SRP the fast competition. 6N only have 18 votes. SANZAAR, Japan, Samoa, Fiji and Rugby Oceania hold 19 votes. 6N, Georgia, South Africa, Argentina, Romania and Rugby Europe does have 28 votes (over 50%) and all enjoy the current rules.

Thanks JN for considering my comment. Understand your point of view re: 4). I don’t think my wish will come true but I do believe changes must be made. I don’t believe all technical changes are for the better and need to be used. Do the NFL have it right by having laptops on the sideline that the ref looks at then inform the crowd of the decision? There are still replays available to the viewers. Not sure how this affects the keyboard warriors. Thanks again for taking the time.

They are speeding up resets. How does that depower the scrum exactly? Where has Robinson said he wants to reduce benches? I have already asked and you have provided nothing… all you have is him saying he wants less dead-time and to simplify the law around how a player can be put on-side after a kick is made. How you make that into he is pushing for reduced benches and depowering scrums has to be amongst the most ludicrous things a I have read. The rest is simply you making up stuff to suggest he is talking about depowering scrums. What they are doing is pinging teams for taking too long to organise themselves at scrum-time. How in any way shape or form is that depowering the scrum or minimising it. That is just you putting 2 and 2 together to come up with 7. Try watching and reading in depth what is being said as opposed to reading a bit and guessing the rest. There has been some chatter which Brian Moore pushed in the media, but nobody is blaming the NH unions. But nobody in the North is talking about it. Talk about gaslighting. As for WR not being the NH or Europe unions. Laws don’t get implemented without their vote as they hold the balance of power.

Who’s blaming laws…. An article which you are making a big deal out of. Secondly my admin didn’t select anyone. Ball is not in my court. I am merely a person posting on a rugby website. WR will continue nicely with or without anyone including you I imagine. I don’t think the world revolves around me. I imagine you don’t either. So wrong on all accounts. And fyi I am from the land of the long white cloud and I wasn’t being facetious… I was speaking my opinion. Your whinge about laws being changed to weaken the Bok forward power. This was a suggestion by Brian Moore who last I looked doesn’t come from this part of the world… but now you and Brendan bleat about NZR and RA changing the laws to minimise the Bok, because you read an article or have heard it form some commentators who also like you and I don’t have any influence on the laws of the game. The NZR and RA aren’t doing any such thing and if you think they are do you think you could share these law changes being proposed by NZR and RA. It’s a myth. Anyway carry on with your argument. I have said my piece and still think you are making something out of nothing… and that is not me being facetious just to be clear. The same as I wasn’t being facetious about your general contribution which I find interesting and insightful… but you can read whatever you wish into it. I have no care.

They have sponsors who who make demands Brendan. Fiji will benifit way more from the game in USA and Id garrantee NZR does too. The Wales games also make more by sharing the fees in the UK than they would at home too.

Sure, but please if possible add in question marks when there's a question as it makes it much easier to read. Unless you are the mythic Roar poster 'Johnno' who had a free-wheeling poetry of his own that transcended grammar.

No, I mean that the north in the early 2000s forced so much competition at the ruck that it became impossible to run the ball wide.

Yes they forced terrible rules by making the ruck so contested it became too dangerous to run the ball wide.

Despite private owners and a national competition they still couldn't survive: the crowds don't want to see kicking nonsense.

There is already alot more ball in play time than there use to be. I don't come in here and criticise rugby. As you said its world rugby not the North. Why aren't fans is SRP land not engaging in Rugby. Why would Mark have to engage fans, how does he intend to speed up scrum without making them depowered. Why does he want to reduce benches if not to depower the the scrum. Find me the heads of any of the 6N unions tell people things like that. We enjoy rugby in the NH as you do down South and if people actually sold Union for the sport it is it might go back to being popular. What other major rugby league spends so much time running itself down.

So it's a massive sports league, but hardly a big sport.

No you were not polite ..You were clearly facetious ..at least lets call a spade what it is ….Anyway the game is exciting in South Africa obviously because the team are on a winning curve . Conversely its in crisis in Aus because its not ….Dont blame Laws , refs , or whatever silly excuses you come up with..You have world class players but you guys ..yes YOUR admin selected Eddie…..As a previous poster noted ( Ben) there are 100 reasons Aus rugby is floundering but the Laws are not one of them…Ball is in your court ..Trust me on this ..World Rugby will continue quite nicely with or without you.

I think you are getting a bit carried away with one article and a comment by Brian Moore that got a bit of air time. Now you are here battling shadows. At least you have a fan in Brendan, who knows next to nothing about the law changes being made with regards to simplifying the offside rule after a kick has been made which increases the contest for the ball or reducing dead=time in the game… nothing in that to worry anyone. But here we are rolling out the victim card… the poor Bok are having people change the laws to mute their strengths. What a load of nonsense. And I say that in politest way possible as your knowledge and insights are always refreshing. I just think you are making a mountain out of a molehill on this one and further you are encouraging people with scant knowledge of the game down here to come in with a bullhorn to talk about how great rugby is in the NH and offer up input on why it is going down the gurgler here in Oceania. If the game is now more exciting in South Africa, that is great. If people in the UK and in Europe are loving the game and it is growing, fantastic. What I don’t get is the need to lash out at SR and how the game is evolving down here? And these comments are not targeted at this particular post but the multitude of posts decrying how NZR and RA are pushing for rule changes because they are struggling and the game is dying… I think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves.

And absolutely none of it speaks to depowering or chsnging laws around scrums or lineouts. Quicker restarts, speed up scrum resets, have the TMO more in synch with the onfield ref getting him clear and quick responses, all killing dead time. Such dreadful law changes and you imply it’s killing the game. As I say stick to facts. Look at the law changes that are coming through World rugby…and tell me who’s pushing those changes. Oh yes it’s NH countries, but they are all ok, it’s Oceania’s desire to see a reduction in the time it takes to set a scrum, a lineout, restarts, TMO synchronisation that is so desirable to fans. Mark Robinson has not pushed for any changes which would undermine the effectiveness of the Bok for instance, but you sit in a bubble and come here with your megaphone to tell people who are engaged with rugby how it is and how nobody wants these changes. Ok that is your opinion. You like a lot of dead time in a game. Nothing wrong with that, but pretty sure many more people actually likes a game which has less. As I say are you aware of the upcoming law changes coming down from WR. Do you have an opinion on those or just the tweaks being made down here. Here is another fact WR has asked for these changes to be trialed and if you actually look at the detail of what that change is, it is simply around how a player can be put onside, which is the change Mark Robinson spoke of. Nothing to do with scrums or set pieces. And in 2023 they enforced the stop clock laws which already exist. My question to you is why do you bother if it is so uninteresting to you. Who goes onto a website dedicated to rugby to criticise it? Do you have some sort of inferiority complex? You only come here to say how much better rugby is in the North. Well when one of the NH teams wins a couple of RWC’s come share your insight. Oh that’s right the NH teams don’t care about the RWC or winning against the ABs, because they make money from the six nations. Well if beating a handful of rubbish teams spins your wheels and actually winning tournaments which involve all teams from around the world is what floats your boat… then stick with it. People like you have long been telling everyone who will listen about the demise of rugby in the SH and the rise of the game in the NH, but the results haven’t changed too much and that at a time the ABs are going through a trough. Oh yes the trough means rugby is dead in NZ and rugby league is taking over. To me it is as about as interesting as your take and knowledge of Māori culture in NZ.

Hi Sheek-things were different then, at least in Wales. It was famous for throwing the ball and around like anything and in general I think there was more a sense of having fun. I don't think that applies to amateur England though. The issue though is the professional era which seems to have changed. England/Wales have decided they can't win except through 10 man rugby. Generally they have much better forwards than backs and can arm-wrestle teams to win, kicking for territory. The English union is the richest and forces the other Northern Unions to accept its will. The British teams cunningly worked out that the turnover is the key to killing running rugby. If the competition for the ball at the ruck is made too easy, a team can easily get turned over and so they don't run the ball but kick instead. The glory days of running Super rugby in the late 90s/early 2000s involved less fiercely contest rucks so long strings of passes and running could be risked. There's always a battle over the detail of law interpretations. One year (2008 more or less) South Africa beat New Zealand 3-0 in the then Tri-Nations. The next year it was the reverse: New Zealand won 3-0. What changed? A small alteration in the laws. It makes an enormous difference. The reason kicking rugby dominates now and doesn't draw fans from the NRL is that RA and NZR are dominated by the British isles unions into accepting kicking rules. The results are there in the collapsing code. No ones cares to watch the kicking style. RA and NZA will watch the game die before they stand up to the British unions.

Does Mark Robinson speak for New Zealand Rugby. I know its his job to do it but you seem to think there are none. Just google Rugby Australia or Ne.w Zealand Rugby and change and you will find plenty. From the Super Rugby website Super Rugby Pacific will be encouraging teams to run the ball back after receiving kicks during the 2024 season after confirming a Law Innovation designed to discourage territorial kicking duels. Are you going to find that for the other leagues changing the rules just cause they don't like a rule. Malloy noted that Super Rugby Pacific had successfully introduced a number of other Law Innovations in recent years with great success, a decrease in dead time, cleaner clearance from scrums, quicker restarts from set-piece and after tries and less TMO interventions. “We were really happy with the spectacle last year and hence we have only made one tweak to the laws for 2024. We want to keep building an exciting, fast moving brand of rugby that our fans want to watch.” “That goes to what we’re saying about when you get the on-field product right, we can create growth in the game. We need to keep evolving and be open to that change,” Robinson said. Our officials have been outstanding through the first five rounds in terms of keeping the flow of the games going. We’re seeing the benefits of that with the quality of the product. The overriding sentiment of fans is they want to see more tempo and less intervention, less slowing down. We want accuracy but we want it to keep moving. “We’d like to see that continue to be considered on a global stage.” Seem to me that NZR also approve of this message. While he doesn't speak for the common man he does speak for New Zealand rugby so I will take his words as what they want to do.