So, St Kilda are a rabble again.
Although, it’s probably easier over time if we point out when they aren’t a shambles.
The Saints sit 14th on the ladder, with only, as per accepted wisdom in 2024, the clear four worst teams in the competition below them – West Coast, Richmond, Hawthorn and North Melbourne.
St Kilda finished sixth on the ladder last year, Ross Lyon’s first since returning to the club as senior coach, but the problem with a lack of scoring again overshadowed any positives that were gained.
They ranked 15th in points last season, and are ranked similarly again now. Only two teams, the Tigers and the Hawks, have kicked fewer goals.
The Saints have lost four of their past five matches, with their only win against the hapless Richmond.
Most of these games have followed the same trend of early struggles, and only starting to look dangerous when it was too late, or almost so.
Against Essendon in Round 3, St Kilda led at every change before going down, but lost every meaningful statistical category and were deserved losers.
Against the Tigers, they kicked one goal to half-time, and even that only came two minutes before the main break.
Richmond wasn’t good enough to make the Saints pay for their poor efforts in the first half, and Lyon finally got his men to release the shackles in the third quarter, before winning by seven points.
Their last three losses have all been quite similar, never really looking like winning, yet twice getting close enough on the scoreboard.
GWS led them by six goals in the last quarter before St Kilda came charging back only when there was no other choice but to play with abandon and dare.
Ross Lyon, Coach of the Saints looks dejected with his team after a loss. (Photo by Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images)
The Bulldogs flogged them from start to finish, but once again the last quarter was the only one the Saints won.
It was more of the same against Port last week, only coming back after a game-high lead of 21 points was established halfway through the last term.
They have shown they can play with some attacking flair, which then sheets back to the coach if they aren’t doing it for four quarters, and only pulling it out as a last resort.
But then we’ve always known Ross Lyon coaches to not lose games, rather than to win them.
From an individual player perspective, there are a handful that have either gone backwards from last year, or haven’t come on to the level that might have been expected.
Mattaes Phillipou looks to be suffering from the second-year blues. Mitch Owens is struggling for the impact he showed he was capable of last year.
Jack Sinclair and Callum Wilkie, two very different players but an integral part of the St Kilda back six, are not living up to their All-Australian reputations.
Max King has been in and out of the side due to injury and desperately needs continuity to build momentum.
Cooper Sharman is neither here nor there, and Tim Membrey tries valiantly but sometimes looks older than his 29 years suggest.
Whether Ross Lyon has the cattle to drive the Saints toward premiership contention remains to be seen.
They’ve had very few high-end draft picks over the last 15 years, and of those they have had, more have missed than hit.
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In fact, going back to the start of Lyon’s first stint at the club, they have drafted the following players inside the top 10:
- Ben McEvoy (pick 9, 2007) – left to win premierships at Hawthorn.
- Jack Billings (pick 3, 2013) – never cemented a spot and is now at Melbourne.
- Paddy McCartin (pick 1, 2014) – now out of the game with concussion issues.
- Hunter Clark (pick 7, 2017) – perennially injured and has played 87 games in seven years.
- Max King (pick 4, 2018) – who should be a winner, but whose body may be made out of biscuits.
- Mattaes Phillipou (pick 10, 2022) – a bright talent that may not be at the right club to fulfil it.
It is a lean, lean list, for both quantity and quality.
The Saints have been more than happy to hit the trade table during that period though, bringing in luminaries such as Tom Lee, Billy Longer, Luke Delaney, Nathan Freeman, Koby Stevens, Logan Austin, Dean Kent and Zak Jones.
Paddy Dow is the latest in the long line, crossing from Carlton last year.
St Kilda get their chance to get their season going in the next three weeks, with easy wins to be recorded against North Melbourne and Hawthorn, followed by Fremantle at Marvel Stadium.
They’d want to be banking 12 premiership points and getting back to parity.
Lyon has history against him in the longer term, given that this century, only Mick Malthouse and Leigh Matthews have been able to coach premierships in their second or third crack at it.
It’s a short list, and an auspicious one.
For too long, St Kilda have alternated between minnow and mid-table – and it’s hard to see when it’s going to get better.
Chanon
Roar Rookie
Couldn’t answer a direct question how typical but l’m not judging you . ‘You are what you are & that’s ok, chin up, all the best :thumbup:
Cat
Roar Guru
How much did the afl give to western? How much did they give to Geelong? Maybe the dogs should start returning the extras they’ve been getting for decades.
Chanon
Roar Rookie
Bulldogs net profit in 2023 was 26 million plus tell me Cat what was Geelong’s net profit :laughing:
Chanon
Roar Rookie
Still upset :laughing:
Cat
Roar Guru
You tell me realist what do the Cats have to do with whether or not St Kilda is a mediocre nothing club? It’s yet again a straw man argument. Tell me what’s inaccurate or wrong with my original comment. A comment which has to do with the article. Not one of yours on this thread has had anything to do with the article. You want to have a discussion about The Geelong Cats and Kardinia Park write an article on it. I dare you. You won’t because you’ll be so easily exposed.
Cat
Roar Guru
No just tired of the same inaccurate BS trotted out and used as a straw man argument. Try actually proving why my original statement is wrong instead of showing you have no ability to.
Chanon
Roar Rookie
Cat your clearly upset didn’t know your so sensitive :stoked:
Chanon
Roar Rookie
l was waiting for that comment.
Cat
Roar Guru
Nice straw man argument by the way chanon. Don’t worry Dogs would be the next team after st kilda to be deleted.
Cat
Roar Guru
Manufactured how? A Geelong team playing in Geelong is different from a Perth team playing in Perth how? A Brisbane team playing in Brisbane? A Sydney team playing in Sydney? Geelong is NOT part of Melbourne. Never has been. Never will be.
Cat
Roar Guru
Here’s the first fact you should learn: The Geelong Football Club does not own Kardinia Park. Take your issues up with Geelong City Council who do own the ground.
Bangkokpussey
Roar Rookie
Massive home ground advantage yet they only get 9 games at home. The lowest number of home games and play more away games than any other team. If you look at the record you will see that they play very few top Victorian teams there and tend to play the interstate teams and the lower Victorian teams or teams with a low supporter base. We are now into round 9 which will be Geelong's third home game in nine matches so they have so far played 6 of eight games away. They will play P.A., Giants, Crows and Eagles at home and of the home games against Victorian Clubs they play Saints (14th), North(18th), Richmond(16th), Hawthorn(17th) and Doggies (11th). No disrespect but no team there you would fear losing by playing away and one of the reasons Geelong's home record looks so impressive. A lot less so when you consider the rankings of the teams they have played at home over the years. Who do they play away? Every team in the top ten other than the giants and not one of those teams do they get to play at home. Their home ground advantage that you salivate over is in many respects negated by playing mostly teams they would beat away anyway. Real home ground advantage for any team is playing high ranked teams where the home ground advantage may be the difference between winning and losing. No teams plays more top teams away and so few at home than Geelong so when looking at the facts rather than opinions your argument holds little water.
Realist
Roar Rookie
Wow! Intelligent comeback. Clearly, you're defeated. Thanks! :stoked:
Tufanooo
Roar Rookie
Hahahahahahahahaha. That was goooooood.
Realist
Roar Rookie
You changed your name haven’t you? And, I know why! :stoked: St Kilda received $156m in funding from the AFL from 2012-2021. The highest of all Victorian clubs. Geelong (along with West Coast, Richmond, Collingwood etc) received $60m less over the same period. Publish the link to this. This won’t be credible until you do. Geelong Football Club didn’t get funding for a stadium. They do not own it. That’s totally irrelevant, its their home ground, so the subsidised unfair advantage stands. Also, a big source of income for the Tigers is from a massively subsidised stadium by the AFL, the MCC and a succession of pork barrelling state governments. What a load of boIIocks. Richmond plays there because the AFL want them to. The Tigers would much prefer the AFL gave them the millions of dollars required to build a 50k seat boutique stadium at Punt Road instead. Also, a big source of income for the Saints is from a fully owned and operated stadium by the AFL that they lease to, at a steep discount, to the Saints. The Saint part own this stadium because they are shareholders in the AFL, like every team. Their arrangement to play there is also no different to any other team. The Saints are still about $7m in debt. They had to take a loan out from the AFL to survive Covid. Had they taken it from a bank, the bank would have wound them up by now. All AFL clubs have had to deal with debt at some time in their history, including Geelong, who was once a massive financial basket case and looked like they would fold. A massively subsidised stadium has gone a long way to ensuring their viability. Also, what the heII would you know about St kilda’s cashflow. How would you know if what impact a bank loan would have had on them. You’re clearly just making stuff up. They exist because the AFL allows it. All Teams only exist because they are the AFL and the AFL wants them to. Regardless, nothing you have said here changes the irrefutable fact that Geelong enjoy and probably only survive, because of a massively subsidised boutique stadium that gives e them undoubtedly the most unfair home ground advantage in Victoria.
Realist
Roar Rookie
You are clearly showing your ignorance here so I suggest you stop talking through your hat on this subject, mate. Richmond played all their home game up until 1965 at Punt Road so it always has been and always will be their Home ground. They play home games at MCG, at the invitation of tge MCC and at the desire of the AFL and also out of consideration to their massive supporter base. If Richmond were given the stupid amount of free money, that it took to build Geelong a boutique stadium big enough to seat 50k people the Tiger’s would play a proportion of their home games at their home ground, Punt Road. That we share the MCG with co-tenants is relevant. Every time we play a co-tenant any advantage of playing at the MCG is lost. The Cats don’t share Kardinia Park with anyone, so every game they play there gives them a massive advantage. Therefore the Cats have been unfairly afforded the greatest home ground advantage of any other AFL team in Victoria. End of debate, mate!
Voren Chalco
Roar Rookie
"You can argue about Milne’s unlucky bounce costing St Kilda in 2010, but that comeback was more about individual brilliance from players than good coaching from Lyon" You could also make the argument that individual brilliance dragged Geelong over the line in 2009, though. And it's always going to be difficult to lay praise or blame on players or coach without knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
Diesel-747
Roar Rookie
Don’t go back to an old girlfriend- there are reasons you parted company .
Realist
Roar Rookie
Yeah that's why it's called Cucumber Park!
Tufanooo
Roar Rookie
St Kilda received $156m in funding from the AFL from 2012-2021. The highest of all Victorian clubs. Geelong (along with West Coast, Richmond, Collingwood etc) received $60m less over the same period. Geelong Football Club didn't get funding for a stadium. They do not own it. Also, a big source of income for the Cats is from a massively subsidised stadium by the AFL, the Geelong Council and a succession of park barrelling state governments. Let me rephrase this for you: Also, a big source of income for the Tigers is from a massively subsidised stadium by the AFL, the MCC and a succession of pork barrelling state governments. I'll also rephrase it another way Also, a big source of income for the Saints is from a fully owned and operated stadium by the AFL that they lease to, at a steep discount, to the Saints. The Saints are still about $7m in debt. They had to take a loan out from the AFL to survive Covid. Had they taken it from a bank, the bank would have wound them up by now. They exist because the AFL allows it.