After Penrith’s crushing, one-point loss to the Sharks on Friday night, there was footage of Ivan Cleary consoling his son, Nathan, in a show of family support.
The Panthers halfback missed a pair of drop-goal attempts in the waning minutes of the game.
The next day, there were reports Nathan was keen to sort out his playing future as soon as possible. The playmaker is off-contract at the end of next year, and it’s hard to ignore the fact that he and his father have previously expressed an ambition to be united at one club.
When Penrith fired coach Anthony Griffin on the eve of the finals, there was plenty of talk that the Cleary professional ‘family reunion’ may happen sooner than expected, at the foot of the mountains. It was eventually squashed by Ivan, who said he would honour his contract at the Wests Tigers.
Yet, with Nathan expressing a desire to sign his next deal soon, the rumour mill of him moving to Concord will no doubt fire up again shortly – although, given the whispers around Cleary the younger penning an extension to stay with the Panthers, there will probably be more chat around Ivan going to Penrith.
However, I have a slight word of warning: a father-son coaching partnership may not be as much fun as they think.
Roughly 50 per cent of my representative basketball as a kid and young adult was played under my dad, and though it did derive some positives, I’d use the word ‘fun’ sparingly. Being coached by my old man actually came with a number of challenging ramifications, and I didn’t even play professionally.
It’s safe to say that first-grade rugby league – especially in this era – would be even harder.
Firstly, players need to be able to vent about their coach to each other. They need to be able to complain about their role, tactics, playing time, training, the coach picking on them, etc. It’s a normal dynamic for players to have the odd whinge about their coach, and it’s no different to employees in any work environment letting off steam about their boss.
That dynamic can be thrown out when the coach is the parent of one of the players.
Many team members won’t feel comfortable talking negatively about the coach around his son – even if it’s fairly trivial stuff – because they don’t want their teammate to feel awkward, or for fear he’ll relay the comments back to his dad. That immediately creates a tension and weirdness that can lead to some ostracising, whether intentional or not.
Even if the players do feel comfortable venting about the coach, it’s unquestionably hard for the son to not be at least a little defensive or protective of his father, even if it’s kept internal and not vocalised to the rest of the playing group.
Through no real fault of anyone, suddenly a sub-optimal situation exists. At best, you have a player – in the Cleary hypothetical, a crucial one – who can feel uncomfortable. At worst, the entire changeroom can have a weird vibe to it.
(Photo by Anthony Au-Yeung/Getty Images)
Needless to say, neither scenario is all that conducive to winning games.
The other narrative that is never far from the surface in a coach-player relationship that includes a son or daughter, is nepotism.
The benefit of having your dad be your coach is that no one knows your game better than someone who has watched you your whole life. When a coach knows your strengths and weaknesses inside and out, they can ensure you’re in the best position to succeed.
Of course, there is a downside to a father believing he knows his kid’s strengths and weaknesses: he may overrate or underrate them, respectively.
Dads are known for often being a little bit biased in their assessment of their children’s abilities, and when any coach thinks a certain player is better than they actually are, it generally causes all many of issues for the team.
The truth is, even if the parent-coach does rate his child’s ability correctly, that won’t stop many believing they’re still playing favourites, as jealousy and ego come into play. Whatever the reality is, is almost as irrelevant as it is subjective.
Another issue that can arise is when the parent-coach goes out of his way to prove he won’t be playing favourites and is even harsher on his kid than is warranted.
One season, in the very first trial session, my dad introduced himself to the whole squad of potential players, and said, “You can call me Shaun, Coach, or Mr O’Connell”.
He then asked every player to call out their name, along with what they were going to call him.
When he got to me, I assumed he’d just skip to the next player. I looked blankly at him for a few seconds, before blurting out “Um… Ryan… Dad.”
He then bellowed: “There’s always one who doesn’t listen! I said ‘Shaun, Coach, or Mr O’Connell!’ Two line-sprints, now!”
(For the uninitiated, a ‘line sprint’ is a favourite form of fitness/torture for basketball coaches.)
This was far from an isolated case in which my ‘coach’ was determined to prove there would be no favouritism, and while I can understand why he did it, I can assure you, it wasn’t much fun being singled out in order for him to make a point.
Here’s the kicker though: it didn’t work anyway. Even the daftest of players could see through it. It was transparent and didn’t stop some players thinking I was getting preferential treatment, in the form of more minutes, shots or control of the team. I just had to deal with it the best I could.
However, fact is, I actually did get preferential treatment at times, and possibly didn’t fully deserve some of the minutes or freedom I was given. Looking back now, with objectivity and maturity, I can admit that. It was nothing major or overly-damaging to the team(s), but, with the benefit of hindsight, it most certainly did happen.
Nathan Cleary seems to have a great relationship with his dad, and Ivan seems like a fair, level-headed coach. Yet everything I mentioned will be the type of things Nathan will have to deal with if he did decide to play under his dad.
(Photo: Matt King/Getty Images)
Not to mention the media reporting on all of it, and – most probably – even making up plenty of drama as well. It might all prove to be unwanted stress for someone who just wants to play footy.
On the flip side, sharing a grand final win with your old man is pretty darn special, and makes everything else feel irrelevant or worth it.
As they say, winning cures all ails.
Bakkies
Roar Guru
In Rugby you have the interesting case of Andy and Owen Farrell. Andy was a teen dad so played on the same Saracens side his son was on when Owen started out. Then Andy ended up on the coaching staff after hanging up the boots. Andy was hired by England as an assistant coach and Owen eventually made his test debut. There were rumours of favouritism from his father and in some quarters people were calling for George Ford to replace Owen. Funny enough George Ford had been coached by his dad at club level. Andy has been on the Lions coaching panel while Owen was in the squad. Lions test selection is heavily scrutinised by the media and supporters. After the RWC pool exit Andy lost his England and is now Ireland defence coach and has won key games against his son.
Jeffrey Dun
Roar Rookie
"I suspect Gus might have recognised this impending problem early in the piece, and hence why Ivan was let go...". I enjoyed the euphemism Albo: "Ivan was let go". He was sacked ! And according to reports the family regarded it as completely unjustified and deeply hurtful. That's why I have found it hard to believe that Ivan would contemplate a return to Penrith to work for Gus again. It's a bit like a whipped dog returning to it's master with it's tail between it's legs. I thought Ivan had more pride than that. I still find it hard to believe.
BA Sports
Roar Guru
What about Bob Fulton - Plenty of people will tell you Scott had no right being in first grade and it upset a few players - including one current TV commentator...
Ryan O'Connell
Expert
There's a recent precedent too. Again, in basketball: https://sports.yahoo.com/report-favoritism-austin-rivers-led-194049049.html
Ryan O'Connell
Expert
Sure, but how do we know those things (venting about the coach, dressing room harmony and perceived bias) didn't happen at the Sharks? Also, as I mentioned, the media landscape has changed since then. It would crazy to think these narratives wouldn't arise in this era or 'over-reporting' and un-informed opinion. "I don’t think it’s an issue as players can separate a father and a coach and likewise a coach can separate a son from a player" - I'm sorry, but I just don't think this is true.
James
Guest
There is a current farther / son partnership in the NBA and it seems to have all but destroyed the club (LA clippers). https://youtu.be/yFnfct1viqs
john
Guest
You even have examples in Tennis why parent coaching combos aren't a good thing, no chance of nepotism there.
Duncan Smith
Roar Guru
Chris Anderson definitely favoured his son Brett at Cronulla. Just kidding Opes. Actually he sacked his real son Ben at Melbourne during the finals in 99.
JOHNY BULLDOG
Roar Rookie
Could never coach a sidestep into him :)
Forty Twenty
Roar Rookie
Wayne Bennett and Darius Boyd have done well as father and son in the NRL. Not quite true but it is a very similar thing.
Greg
Guest
Yes but your other points about players being able to vent about the coach, dressing room harmony and perceived bias in terms of playing minutes still stand regardless of position. I don't think it's an issue as players can separate a father and a coach and likewise a coach can separate a son from a player, it's no different to anyone working in a family business.
Ryan O'Connell
Expert
(Bellamy at Melbourne is the longest serving coach; been there since 2003.)
Albo
Roar Rookie
As a Panther fan, I have a lot of time for the abilities of both Nathan & Ivan Cleary. I would be happy to have either of them at my Club. But like most here have indicated, I think having both father & son as coach & player and likely captain of the team, is fraught with lots of negatives as outlined by Ryan and others. I think it should only be one or the other at the Panthers to benefit both of their careers, and to avoid negative pressure on the team via such a close relationship of player & coach. For me , the priority has to be retaining Nathan, as a quality on field game manager is as scarce as rocking horse poo, and Nathan shows all the signs of developing into such a key player. I suspect Gus might have recognised this impending problem early in the piece, and hence why Ivan was let go just as Nathan was progressing so well through the juniors. If it was me that was Ivan, I would keep my distance from Nathan's team and remain as the great father supporting his son's career outside of club affiliations, especially whilst my own career is still going so well at another club.
Nat
Roar Guru
Maybe it's best for Nathan to wait until Robbie has retired. For all the maturity Nathan displays he is still only 20y/o and all the reasons you offer, that perceived nepotism or otherwise has to have a mental impact on the young fella. Further, he is the general of the team, he cannot be looking at his team mates with any back of mind doubt "this bloke doesn't like me/dad..." while on the park. They most likely will come together but in another 5yrs or so he will be much more mentally stronger.
Franko
Guest
No not at all, John said go forward and Martin did exactly that.
Christo the Daddyo
Roar Rookie
From the outside, both coach/father and player/son seem to be decent human beings, so I would like to make the assumption that they would both be professional about things. However it's the perception - both within the playing roster and around the club, plus the media/fans that will be the bigger problem I think. And that's something they have little to no control over.
BA Sports
Roar Guru
History says, based on the number of games Ivan has coached without premiership success, he will never win one- coaching 300 games before winning a first premiership has never happened. So if Nathan wants to play for his dad it says to me that for him, winning isn’t everything. That is a perfectly fine character trait to have... as long as you are not a professional athlete.
Ryan O'Connell
Expert
Very true, and a very valid point, Greg. I'd only add two small comments, that might be irrelevant, but perhaps worth raising: 1. The media landscape has changed since then, along with the introduction of social media, which has increased the scrutiny and pressure coaches and players are under. In a related point, there is also a lot more 'BS' and made-up narratives/agendas now. 2. Lang played prop, while Cleary plays halfback, which I actually think that does make a difference. I played point guard, for which the role is vaguely the same as that of halfback in rugby league: it’s your responsibility to organise the team, and colloquially be the “coach on the court/field”. That means the point guard/halfback and coach need to be completely in-sync with each other from a tactics, style of play, decision-making and leadership perspective. If they’re not, it can cause issues for the entire team, so there is always immense pressure on those individuals to be completely aligned. That pressure is naturally only amplified when the two are father and son.
Paul
Roar Guru
Apart form the insights Ryan, this was a terrific read. The two issues Penrith and the Clearys need to look at are pretty simple: which coach is likely to be able to win a premiership for the Panthers in the near future and which coach is likely to be able to take Nathan Cleary to the next level in terms of his development as a player? I think the jury must still be out on whether Nathan can mature and become an elite half back. My issue is whether his father is the best person to directly influence that development? Both Nathan and Ivan would be better served with Ivan providing outside support, rather than direct coaching, given my next point. Plenty of articles and comments have flown around about when the Panthers will win another premiership and what they have to do to achieve this. There will be HUGE pressure on the coach over the next few years to deliver and the longer it takes, the more the pressure will build. I don't see how a coach could then spend the time required to develop one player to elite level as well as winning a comp. I know there are some like Bellamy that have done it, but I suggest the pressure to win a premiership was less and the actual player talent was better. At the end of the day, the Cleary father/son football relationship seems to be working well as it stands. Best to leave a good thing alone.
AJ Mithen
Expert
Well said Baz.