Nathan Lyon recently went past Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee to movie into fourth position in Australia’s all-time wicket takers list.
It is a fantastic achievement from Lyon who has been phenomenal for Australia over the last few years. When Australia were struggling to find a spinner after the retirement of legendary Shane Warne, Nathan Lyon took over the mantle admirably and has been one of the leading spinners in the world since his debut.
Lyon currently has 318 wickets in 80 Tests but where does he rank among some of the great spinners Australia have produced over the years?
Australia’s Nathan Lyon (AP Photo/Themba Hadebe)
Australia have produced some of the finest spinners world cricket has seen.
Shane Warne with 708 wickets in Tests is not only the best spinner Australia have produced but can also stake claim of being the greatest spinner in the history of the game.
Warne can be credited for making leg-spin fashionable again and was instrumental in Australia’s dominance for over a decade in all forms of the game.
An ODI world cup winner, Shane Warne was equally effective in limited overs formats as well. With more than 1000 international wickets Shane Warne is one of the greatest bowlers to have played cricket.
Shane Warne of Australia (Photo by Hamish Blair/Getty Images)
Richie Benaud and Clarrie Grimmett were great leggies as well in their own right.
Clarrie Grimmett was a fine leggie as well who played 37 Tests for Australia claiming 216 wickets at an average of 24.21. Grimmett was a fine bowler and averaged about 6 wickets a game in the 37 Tests he played.
Richie Benaud who played 63 Tests for Australia not only claimed 248 wickets at 27.03 but also made three Test centuries. He averaged 24.45 with the bat making him an effective bowling all-rounder for Australia.
The other leggie who probably would have played more Tests for Australia if he wasn’t born in the same era as the great Warne is Stuart MacGill.
MacGill was a brilliant spinner had a big leg break and a fantastic googly which distinguished him from the great Shane Warne. MacGill played 44 Tests for Australia claiming 208 wickets at 29.02.
Lyon, though an offie, has done extremely well and has evolved his bowling beautifully over the years.
Lyon’s performance on his tours to India and UAE recently prove how he has worked on his bowling and the lengths to become a more successful bowler in Asia.
Even though Lyon isn’t as glamorous as the above leggies, he still is one of the finest spinners Australia has produced. Where would you rank him as a spinner among the greats Australia have produced?
John Erichsen
Roar Guru
I totally agree. Any list of Australia's top 12 test off spinners should include Nathan Lyon.
Jay Rodda Rams
Roar Rookie
His character is the worst I've seen. Just a arrogant self absorbed player. Bring back Steeve Okeefe who would have more wickets than Lyon if he had played as many tests as him
DP Schaefer
Roar Rookie
Lyon, not only through results - but by delivering those results whilst facing consistent and unfair criticism plus intense pressure takes his place as Australia greatest offie. Any selection of Australia'a greatest 12 must include him.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Don’t think the pitches are much flatter than they used to be, having seen the game for a long time. If you read about the Bradman era people were complaining about flat wickets then. Not many pace bowlers averaged under 25 between the two world wars. The best of the era were Maurice Tate, average 25 and Harold Larwood, average 28. No Australians. Saying there aren’t many bowlers at the moment under 25 apart from the very best - i.e Steyn, Philander and Rabada - proves nothing. There have never been many under 25. In the 90s/2000s you had McGrath, Donald, Ambrose, Waqar and Wasim. In the 70s/80s, Hadlee, Marshall, Ambrose, Holding, Lillee and Imran. I would submit that there may have been more greats in that era simply because they were better and there were more of them. Most good judges would agree that Botham was as good or better than J Anderson but his average was slightly worse. Whether or not more runs are scored today is a matter for statistical analysis. I wouldn’t be surprised if bigger bats and smaller grounds contributed to slightly higher average totals, which is why I’m happy to put Lyon on the same rung as Mallett. On the other hand the emphasis on quick scoring in white ball cricket has conceivably diminished some players’ defensive skills and ability to play long innings. The real answer can only be established by proper statistical analysis, which is not easy, given that scoring more or fewer runs in one or another series might reflect the relative quality of the players rather than the pitches.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Believe it or not, size of the bat doesn’t matter a lot in defence. Test cricket is about scoring without making mistakes. Not too many top order batsmen get caught in the outfield.
Sainter
Guest
Statistically Lyon is very good. However he has for far too long bowled a line at middle or leg, with very little chance for wickets. There was a short period where it looked like he had changed to bowling outside off or at off & good results occurred but that hasn't lasted. I still rate Ashley Mallet as a better off spin bowler in Aust cricket. Besides how many times has he cleaned up an innings or won a test? Having said that we were spoilt by seeing Warne and you can't compare Lyon to a great. I am sure he is trying his best as all our cricketers are doing, we just don't have enough really good ones at the minute.
Don Freo
Roar Rookie
Lyon would love to have bowled against the toothpicks batsmen used in past eras. Averages can't be compared when conditions are so different.
Brainstrust
Roar Rookie
They play more test matches these days. OReilly missed a chunk because of the war and played against England. England had some of the best batsman of all time Sutcliffe and Hammond. Trumbles era they have the top 10 test match bowlers with lowest averages from 10-18. OReilly to me is the best because of his test match record 22.59 and first class average 16.60 774 first class wickets is a decent amount. Shane Warne at 25 for both test and first class, even with all those wickets is only second. Then you would have Grimmet coming closely behind those 2. Benaud would be next at 4th., MacGill his bowling would vary wildly, he could be very dangerous and then next season he was a mess. If Warne had not been around people would have also seen more of his bad periods as well as the good. I would rate Mallet above Lyon he has got a very good first class average. So where does that leave Lyon I would rate him comparable to Bruce Yardley and Higgs after Mallet. The other two had more competition for spots.
fella
Guest
He' no Ray Bright or Jim Higgs
Brainstrust
Roar Rookie
How did you work that out? Lyon averages more and much worse economy than them He is better in strike rate.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
He is one of the best spinners currently and for sure one of the greats of Australian cricket. He has surpassed all expectations. I hope he gets to 400 Tests wickets and more.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
Agree. Nathan Lyon has been brilliant.
Spanner
Roar Rookie
Well made points Matt and I think your rankings are spot on. MacGill is so unlucky to have played in the same era as Warne - you could hear the ball fizz when he gave it a rip ! Lyon has been our best finger spinner by a mile ????
Hugh Jarse
Roar Rookie
I was never a huge fan of Nathan Lyon. To prove a point a couple of years ago, I put together a comparison of Garry with other 'great' spinners of his kind that I had seen play: Underwood, Bedi, Gibbs. To my surprise, Garry was as good or better in terms of test average, economy rate and strike rate. I've since managed to digest that humble pie.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
I think the bowling averages in this era has been significantly higher. If look at people who have at least 200 Tests wickets, only Steyn & Philander averages under 25 among pacers. Among spinners only Ashwin has an average of around 25. The pitches are flat and spinners hardly get much help. Wrist spinners are different but except for Yasir Shah, there is no good wrist spinner in Tests. Nathan Lyon has done very well when you think the kind of wickets he has played in. Except for couple of pitches, most of the Aussie pitches in recent times have been completely flat.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
Finger spinners cannot be compared to wrist spinners in terms of effectiveness but again Australia's greatest have been the latter. It is commendable that Nathan Lyon has done so well playing on wickets in Australia which are nowhere close to what it used to be in the past.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
Understood. I only took the top wicket takers among spinners to compare (with minimum of 200 Test wickets). That's the reason for me to miss O'Reilly, Trumble and Mallet. All great spinners.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
Very good bowlers both. It will be honour for Nathan Lyon to be in such company.
DaveJ
Roar Rookie
Good question Giri. We should always take averages over an extended period as the key measure to compare players, while taking into account things like where the runs were scored or the wickets taken and against whom and - mainly for before the First World War - the era in which it happened. Aggregate wickets and runs are fairly meaningless - Brett Lee may have taken 310 wickets, but with a mediocre average for a fast bowler of 31, no one can seriously claim that he was in the same league as Ray Lindwall who took only 228 wickets but at an average of 23 (and played Test cricket for nearly five years longer than Lee). Lyon has been a great servant, but looking at averages, you would have to say that he remains well behind Warne, O’Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, MacGill and Trumble (141 wkts at 22 over 14 years). Lyon’s average of 32 is behind Ashley Mallett’s (just under 30), but he has had to play a lot more Tests in Asia against much stronger Indian teams in particular. So I would put him on the same rung as Mallett, Ian Johnson (109 wickets at 29), Arthur Mailey (99 wickets at 34) and MA Noble (121 wickets at 25). In Noble’s pre-WWI days the condition of the wickets was such that you could discount 5-10 runs/wicket from bowlers’ averages and add the same to batsmen.
Matt Simpson
Roar Guru
I think we have to be careful comparing Lyon to other wrist spinners- a finger spinner will often have the role of holding down and end and drying up runs, where a wrist spinner is often more aggressive in search of wickets. In saying that, maybe the same plateau with Benaud and Grimmett, but not as good as Warne.