Nathan pinches two points from Ivan’s old mob after the Warriors trump the Titans

Tim Smith anyone?

I agree with everything you have said. I think the Panthers problems may be down to poor retention. They let quality players leave hoping potential will fill a void...until this day I cannot believe they sent Luke Lewis out the door....I would have cut 5 players to fit him into the cap. On the bright side it is a long season and if Penrith keep on playing like that they will not lose many players to the origin series.

Absolutely. As a long suffering Panthers supporter I could not believe that the Panthers let Peachey go. Every decision they made was to retain Nathan Cleary. Why? He has a decent kicking game and tackles well but I prefer a halfback with speed, who poses a constant threat to the opposition and creates opportunities for others. I believe he played second fiddle to Jerome Luai when they were juniors. I can see why. Penrith's spine is not good enough to challenge for the premiership. An average fullback, a poor hooker, a non threatening halfback and an error prone ageing number 6.

All I can say is Penrith just eclipsed Steven Bradbury in the how did they win that awards. When you watch sport and your team is playing it sometimes doesn't matter how bad the game is as long as they get the win. But seriously, how did the tigers lose that.

Couldn’t agree more..

How long is a piece of string, souvalis? It's a question of how high you set the bar. Are you a Roosters or the Broncos supporter? I forget which one. Compare the talent across the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Storm and Sharks with the Broncos, Dragons, Knights and Raiders (all a level down) with the next group and so on. To be fair to the Rabbitohs though, from their current starting 17 there are 5 Souths juniors who were developed by the Rabbitohs and 7 players (including all 3 Burgess brothers) who had never played a game of first grade in the NRL before coming to Souths. Clearly there needs to be a fairer system and a player draft to control the distribution of elite talent and emerging juniors. It's about time there was transparency in the salary cap and TPA system that should be centrally administered by the NRL. There should also be greater transparency about how the NRL's billion dollar TV broadcast deal is being spent. It should be more than adequate to handle and NFL/NBA type system. No more closed door secret boardroom deals for "Uncle Nick" while avoiding a thorough forenic review of all the club's financial dealings. The competition is too lopsided ATM and designed to weaken the Sydney based clubs in order to for them to merge, relocate or join the Bears and the Jets in the Canterbury Cup 2nd tier competition.

Thinking the same about lack of quality coaches (and perhaps uneven spread of talent). Broncos finished 6th last year, one win away from top 4. This year they've one backwards big time. Titans have lots of talent on paper but performing poorly, same for NQ. Not saying it's all the fault of the coaches but it's not a lack of talent. Looking at the Broncs how's this for "talent"/ "potential" - Boyd (former SoO/Oz), Isako, Oates, Roberts, Bird, Milford, Nikorima. They fact that they're playing like Q cuppers is NOT due to lack of talent.

Good to see the Warriors bounce back. I see some people saying Tedesco is the best player in the world, well RTS must not be far behind. Titans are going to take some weeks to click but they need a win desperately. I still think they can go on a run later in the year. There is a lot of attacking flair in that squad. They just need to not get in each others way which was happening a bit last night. Panthers v Tigers was awful watching... I don't rate the Panthers this year, I just don't think they got the talent to put it bluntly. Katoa and Edwards would rank someone near the bottom in their respective positions. Nathan Cleary is going to be under enormous pressure this season and I also question whether he is really that good. Maloney is another year older... things might click for them later in the year but they are so far behind the Roosters, Storm and Rabbits its not funny. On the Tigers, well how did they not win that? Mcguire's got them fit and turning up for each other in defence but their attack is very poor. Hate to say it but i think Moses is a far more dynamic player than Brooks...

Not particularly impressed by the Warriors this week - they were getting rewarded for bad 5th tackle options, and it seemed as though nearly every time the Titans got inside the Warriors 20 they promptly dropped the ball, or threw it over the sideline. Those two late-ish tries were soft. Taylor was way off the pace for the Titans. They need Roache (or a fully fit Luke - but that seems like a pipe dream) back to really punish teams up the middle and take advantage of the back 3. They also still need to remove Kaka, but that's not happening under Kearney, clearly. The other game was an awful watch. I started reading while it was on.

Edwards has had a shocking two games. However, he is coming back from a long term injury. Prior to that injury, Edwards was pretty decent. At the moment, the kid's confidence would be at an all time low. I hope he bounces back.

Which Penrith or Tigers run on players exactly do you think aren’t NRL level ? Judging general ability on a poor game or two isn’t a good method of evaluation..particularly the current Blue/ potential national representative halfback..

About as inspiring as changing my kids dirty nappy. I wonder how the Panthers feel having paid through the nose for the two underperforming Clearys. I seriously question the kids talent, sure he has some clutch moments in him, but the 1 minute of wonder really doesn't make up for the 79 minutes of shovelling the ball around and lack of ball running ability. It was the same last year, and the panthers really won too many games in the last 10 minutes as well. I heard Gus saying that the players aren't distracted by all the drama offseason at the club, but if that's the case does that just mean they suck?

"It’s time for the NRL and RL following public to take a reality check and realise that the talent is just not there" Is the talent not there, or is there a lack of quality head coaches? Have a look at the top 3 contenders, Storm, Souths and Easts have Bellamy, Bennett and Robinson. What comes first the chicken or the egg? Is there a lack of talent in the players, or a lack of quality head coaches to get the best out of the players. Have a look last year with the Tigers under Cleary. They struggled to score points, while the Panthers under Griffin would score points at will. This year, the Panthers under Cleary can't score any points. There is a pattern there. We should look at the head coaches and see if any of them have any idea how they structure an attack in the oppositions half. From last nights game, both were poorly coached.

There seems to be a gap already between the top 3 sides and the rest IMP. Not in terms of premiership points, but how their sides are led around the park. Their halves and/or hookers are making things happen in attack and are working to plans. They look like they know what they're doing and are winning games as a result. There's a middle group including the Dragons & Knights who are still getting their combinations right and then there's a bottom group, being headlined by the Panthers & Broncos who look to have no systems or plans in place because of a dysfunctional halves pairing. The problem with Penrith and Brisbane halves is compounded by two coaches, one of whom has questionable ability to fix the problem and the other who has committed to his halves pairing for the season, even though they're playing as individuals. I think these Clubs are in a ton of trouble and I'll bet Freddy Fiddler's not thrilled with certain form lines either.

It was a mongrel of a game but I was watching thinking these are the blues halves and look at the junk they are doing. Then they seem to get focused in the last 10 minutes. There were signs of hope for the Blues.

Panthers have problems. Nathan Cleary despite his heroics with the boot had a shocker. He really needs to work on his running game. A few times the Tigers were up on him and he throws a dummy and...nothing. It’s like watching a tortoise walking on broken glass. The only halfback with a show and no go. While we’re at it, Luke Brooks should got booted up the backside too. Not only did he miss the two relatively easy FG attempts, he caused the last try. He got suckered into coming in when he didn’t need to which pulled his centre and winger in with him and left Leaky Edwards a free run to the corner. Shocking lapse of concentration in the last minute of the game. I felt for Edwards. I rated him when he came in this year but he’s lost his way. Katoa is a terrible dummy half. Egan looked good until he threw that ridiculous three metre forward pass across the ruck. Leota was their best forward. His charges put RCG and Tamou to shame. If you look at their last couple of seasons Penrith should be a team smack bang in the middle of a premiership window by now, but they looked poorly coached, unmotivated and maybe like they’ve sold off too much of their squad.

Absolutely. That game was just horrible - an adjective I rarely use to describe league matches but it sure fitted that game.

Looking at the replay of that FG again from Cleary it is a blueprint for other kickers to follow to give themselves the best chance of success without rushing their kick. Most kickers are guilty of standing far too shallow and at a 45 degree angle to the play the ball giving markers an easy, unobstructed path to cut off the kick. Cleary however stood 11 metres almost directly behind the play the ball (slightly to the right) and received a perfect pass from Sione Katoa which gave the markers little chance of covering the ground to interfere with the kick. A+ for planning and execution for both Cleary and Katoa on that play.

Like Emcie posted on the Live call, neither team deserved to get 2 competition points from that game. As befitting of this generation a "participation award" would have sufficed. Had Benji been on for the last 10 mins he would have kicked both field goals missed by J. Reynolds and Brooks. A. Reynolds would have kicked both blindfolded as well as the penalty conversion that was missed by Marsters from right in front that surely even Marsters' mum would have been able to kick. How the Tigers fans must be feeling this morning I can only guess... gutted, heartbroken, bewildered and angry no doubt. They deserve bettter as do the Panthers and Broncos fans (and I also include the Rabbitohs performance against the Titans in that). With all this talk of expanding the game and introducing more clubs to a 16 team competition surely last nights game and the effort from the Broncos highlights the lack of talent that is up to first grade standard. It also brings into question the standard of first grade coaches available to coach any new teams when proven failures like Jason Taylor and David Furner would no doubt be amongst the first to be considered. Even Nathan Brown, Garth Brennan, Dean Pay and Stephen Kearney don't pass muster (meet the required standard) and Ricky Stuart and Ivan Cleary are still a 50/50 call at best. Everyone is singing Nathan Cleary's praises this morning for that sideline conversion clutch kick and the long FG under pressure. Both those feats are indeed worthy of praise but do not cover the fact that Cleary had a substandard game. In 90 mins of football only a combined 60 seconds is being talked about when assessing Cleary's performance. Even young Harris-Tavita had a better game over all for the Warriors and the kid was on debut NOT the NSW incumbent HB. It's time for the NRL and RL following public to take a reality check and realise that the talent is just not there at a sufficient standard to compete with the elite players, coaches and clubs and the game will only suffer more substandard embarrassments if the game is expanded to include more teams to the existing 16 team competition.

Penrith played 79 mins of rubbish but me thinks that last 3 mins may be the start of a 3-4 game winning streak... gee they miss Peachey.