Is the A-League overrated by people who like it or underrated by people who don’t?

AJ, what you say is correct. Hopefully one day Football will surpass league as the No. 2 game - with momentum, who says it can't get to No. 1, although it does look unlikely at this juncture.

I think that sums it up, Kangas - the Wallabies have overachieved and now other teams are catching up and passing them. With a limited pool, I can't see them getting back to their glory day.

Karen - you do know AFL is a not for profit organisation - as with all NFP they don't pay tax

AJ, as Chris mentions, you really need to distinguish between the two. The world certainly doesn't revolve around Melbourne, but few could argue that it beats Sydney hands down with sporting events, although it isn't an all code city like Sydney.

Not sure. The turf at Ian McLennan Park, Kembla Grange is artificial. Maybe that's why the game was played there.

Why was it played at Kembla Grange when Coledale are pretty much based at the northern tip of the Illawarra?

Most Glory fans feel the same, but I'd argue Brisbane fans couldn't care less about Perth anymore than most other teams. Why, because they won and Perth have never beaten Brisbane in a big match, or got one over them in controversial circumstances like that GF. Until it's each way, teams aren't going to develop a rivalry.

Would a club like Melbourne Victory or Western Sydney Wanderers with their fanbases be possible at all with ethnic-based clubs? Or Perth Glory, or Adelaide United? Would it not be better to have clubs that can unite communities? The ethnic clubs deserve respect. I have already said that. But they failed to adjust themselves to an age where the communities they originate in have largely diluted into the Australian mainstream. I mentioned in an earlier post that European and Asian migrant communities no longer congregate in their old suburban strongholds, as their children and grandchildren tend to scatter into suburbia. What is needed, however, are people who understand football and will not try and chase the next big thing in the hope they will draw the casual punter for five minutes.

Jack, a good read, and some interesting questions that people like myself have been asking for over a decade, with no sensible answers coming our way, just hogwash, and the true fan sees right past that, and that's why things are where they are today. Unfortunately not much has changed, and people like me, the diehards or true believers or whatever you wanna call them, have lost patience. For far too long the FFA and the state feds have been too worried about power and control (its all about $$$ at the end of the day) and not cared about what they're actually in their jobs to do, that is to govern, to grow and ultimately to care about the game! They've failed on all counts!!! The boardroom battle of the last 2-3 years, has set the game back another 5-10 years in my opinion. The A-league wasn't going well then, and they've just let it get worse, by sheer inaction. Can we get to where we need to get to? Of course we can, but to get there, there is a crap load of work to be done. Certain people need to stop obstructing progress because it doesn't suit them, their mates and their pockets! The FFA is an incompetent body, whose leaders wouldn't last 6 months in the corporate world outside of sport. They've shown time and time again they're not fit and not capable to run the entire sport, so the quicker the A-league becomes independent, the better. This is what the game needs; an Independently run league, run by an independent commission type structure, 16 team A-league sooner rather than later. 12 is ok for now, but I'd be adding new teams every year after that till we get to 16 teams, 30 game seasons, no more compromised fixtures. A second division also with 16 teams, up and running in 2 years. The new A-league teams coming from there. No more made up clubs with no history or fans. Salary cap scrapped, there's no need for it, it does nothing for the competitiveness of the competition, we all know who the big and the small clubs are, let the big clubs get bigger, and the smaller clubs spend what they can spend. Football economy, open up transfer fees and loans, as everywhere else in the world, this is a fabulous way for our league, and particularly the smaller clubs in it, to make money and refocus on their juniors and player development programs. No more oversized or oval grounds, in NSW and QLD there is an abundance of small/medium sized rugby league/union stadiums. And in Victoria, Perth and Adelaide the current grounds are adequate. Lets build the crowds, and the interest, not play in 50k seated stadiums, when we only draw 15k, that kills the product! And above all else, lets listen to the fans and players, not shun them away and continue to do what we're not doing, coz its killing the game! Lets listen to the players and the fans, our game is not AFL or NRL, and it never will be, but if we keep running it like that we're gonna lose the remaining fans that we do have. The player base and fan base are out there, but we're not listening to them, that's why they're not turning up or watching! Things like the NCIP need to go, we all came from somewhere in this country, the only difference is from where and which generation. Lets not forget the people and the clubs who brought the game to Australia. Lets embrace our history, instead of hiding away from it, which has also alienated a lot of supporters in the last 20 years, and some of those people will never come back. Lets get back to basics and listen to the fans! The sport and the league is for them, not for the suits, lets start listening!!! Over and out...

Can you really call it a national AFL the when they don't play AFL ? When they play Ireland they play a hybrid game of afl and Gaelic football.

For me it's about proper connection to a team, if you don't have that connection then it's likely you would get snoberish comments from people who don't care. When wanting to watch the very best then you watch the top leagues or the champions league but local football is all about the experience in watching your team and the intrigue that goes with the players espeically the young ones trying to make their grade or the aspiring coached looking to make an difference or watching an foreign player trying to restart again. The a-league isn't the best quality of football but what made the a-league worth it was the noise and active support, it was an experience worth going but that's gone and exposes the football quality on the pitch which still in it's infancy.

So what reasons could explain the rise in MLS popularity and attendance? This article somewhat flies in the face of your conclusions. Significant investment in quality foreign players has been pivotal. http://www.scribhun.com/the-rise-of-major-league-soccer/ As has been written in many articles, the rise in the MLS has to a significant degree been based on attracting quality foreign players however that's something that in a global market we find hard to compete with. We know from Melbourne City membership numbers that David Villa and Tim Cahill have made sizeable positive differences but we have not followed up with similar type players. Among other measures, our game needs to make ongoing investments to attract quality, 'big' name players to our league and in parallel bring on youth (Arzani, McGree, etc) if we want to build the league beyond its current level. If not, let's then be happy to exist at a modest professional level relative to other sports here but build a long term future on youth. Grandstanding like Gallop's comments about football being one day the number one sport in Oz is premature and down right silly - professionally stup1d.

The new Melbourne team is the test... but should they have built the stadium first ?instead of playing the team in another city (Geelong) lol ! If all the teams were playing in boutique stadiums, the A-League would look so much better. Although a long way off leagues (of any code) with 10-12,000 crowds. NFL is remarkable at 67,000 per game! Premier League at 38,000 is not bad either. AFL is incredible at 34,000 and NRL has a respectable 16,000. Interesting that even super netball makes lists on Wikipedia. But hey we should be talking about the actually ga,e right ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures

The ethnic-based clubs served their purpose and played an admirable role, but they have only themselves to blame for failing to adapt to changes in Australian and general Western society. Sydney and Melbourne, like many other major cities (including American ones) boasted vibrant European and Asian migrant enclaves. In Sydney you had Leichhardt, Campsie, Chinatown, etc. However, with the passage of time, these European and Asian migrant enclaves became diluted and are no longer the centres of the community they once were. The descendants of these migrants may retain a link to their heritage, and the said suburbs may have the imprimatur of that heritage on them, but the migrant communities have largely scattered into mainstream Australian suburbia.

#TVratings Friday STV #ALeague #FoxSports#MVCvWEL 22k It will now take nothing short of a commercial miracle to save the A League.

Nemesis- I found this latest comment of yours a bit hard to follow. You say it is ridiculous to look at Spain,England or Italy to find answers. You then go on to say we should find the answers in Austria,Switzerland,Sweden Denmark or even Belgium. Might I suggest to you that historically if one searches football records,the game in today's form was probably "invented " in England with English coaches, (disgusted with the archaic administrations in their own country), travelling to the countries you mention ,taking with them their ideas and input into how the game could develop if administered properly. The man widely credited with the game's move into Europe was a coach called Jimmy Hogan,who, entranced as to why Scottish and Irish players seemed to be much more skillful than their bigger English counterparts was ostracised by the administration of the day for suggesting the style of football played by these "foreigners" was superior to that used by the then "champions of the world". Hogan , disgusted at this attitude, went to Austria ,taking his ideas with him and proceeded to,with help from an Austrian called Meisl, to spread the gospel about how the game should ,and could be played. With Meisl's influence spreading in Austria, Hogan then moved on to Hungary, where he commenced to spread his gospel, and today we all know of the successes of the pre-war Austrian "Wunderteam" and the post war Mighty Magyars, playing what we regard today as "total football" You omitted to mention how the game was introduced and developed in South America where again it was English industrial companies,moving to sources of cheaper labour, took the game in it's rawest form, and introduced it as a form of active entertainment to their workers. In the late 1940's there was a whole movement of ex players from English clubs to South America as "coaches" where their task was to spread the game to locals. This "spread" can also be traced to countries you mention,Netherlands being one of those influenced in many ways by English coaches. But as evidence of how the game has progressed the game we are watching today probably has it's roots in of all places ,Russia, where for many years under the influences from totalitarian government, fitness and movement were emphasised as additions to Hogan's tight control and accurate passing game. Football history,a fascinating subject. Cheers jb.

Bit harsh Fadida, the amateurs in Ireland are a little underrated, maybe as MM says, there are many other amateurs sides around the world playing AFL & I'm sure the Australian team would be competitive.

You have some fair points. The A-League is thanklessly caught between foreign leagues on one hand and the other codes on the other, but it tries too hard to emulate the latter rather than follow football convention. Most leagues in Europe, South America and Africa are resigned to their place in the football totem pole, but survive and thrive because of history and tradition behind them, and being part of an ecosystem where players move freely, clubs go up and down freely, etc. The A-League has been hampered by believing it must emulate other sports. Under John O'Neill, they tried to emulate Super Rugby with a one-team per city franchise model and laughably short season. Now we have more teams and a longer season, yet still can't get the model right. The AFL and NRL are not models for the A-League to emulate either. In short, Australian football suffers from insecurity and an inferiority complex both in its place in football and its relation to other sports. Trying to emulate other sports, chase casual fans and constantly "big" itself with short-term fixes isn't the solution.

The NFL has big problems, even if it still is a behemoth amongst commercial sports leagues. For a taster read this discussion with Malcolm Gladwell, who has predicted that NFL will be dead in 25 years... https://www.theringer.com/2016/12/1/16039962/bill-simmons-malcolm-gladwell-future-of-the-nfl-b6e14a14124 In the discussion they talk about second conversations around a sport i.e. the background discussion that is not about the game on the field but about the surrounding environment, like personalities, admin, health issues etc. the second conversations can be positive or negative. The list for the NFL puts in the shade the Oz soccer issues that dominate the Roar’s daily blather. They mention... 1. Concussions 2. An undeniable change in the way the game is being played 3. An undeniable decline in the quality of play in September and October 4. The commissioner’s serial abuse of his power 5. Conflicting policies regarding painkillers, HGH, steroids, and marijuana 6. A looming free fall in youth football participation numbers 7. A lack of under-30 superstars who resonate with fans 8. National anthem protests (and whether it affects certain fan bases) 9. Billionaire owners repeatedly extorting their fans to pay for new stadiums 10. Millennials and cord-cutters gravitating more to the NBA and soccer 11. An oversaturation of TV games because of shameless greed 12. That pre-election decline in ratings, and whether it should be considered an aberration or something more