Sunrise or Sunset? The Gold Coast ultimatum

Its a shame Peter the Scribe appears to have no knowledge of Gold Coast. I grew up in Melbourne, but would expect most learned people would call Melbourne a combination of city, suburbs, Dandenongs, Mornington Peninsula etc. Gold Coast is a combination of beautiful world protected surf beach reserves, mountains, springs, theme parks for the tourists and a fantastic climate. Amongst many other great facets. And in years to come, hopefully have a half decent football team.

I believe two of the greatest reasons for the Suns' dismal history are: 1. they have been gifted too many super talented top end draft picks. How could they possibly hold so many potentially great players within a salary cap. No club could - not even Hawthorne as has been demonstrated when they exited Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. This simply means after developing draftees for 2, 3 or 4 years the talent starts to show through and when another club needs a particular 'talent' and have some room in their cap they look at the cream at the Suns. O'Meara is one of many. The Suns managed his injuries and saw very, very little return for their investment before the glory of Hawthorne knocks on his door with a truckload of premiership hope, big fan base and dollars. They can even underbid the Suns' dollars and still get their man. Jack Martin may perpetuate this storyline at the end of 2019. In 2,3 or 4 years will we see Lukosius, Rankine and King be another cycle after spending their AFL infancy at the Suns? 2. Great clubs make good players great and ordinary clubs make potentially great players ordinary. Gold Coast has always been an 'ordinary' club. There has been a plethora of talent exit the Suns. Sometimes the Suns actually exited them. Would Hawthorne or Sydney have shown Charlie Dixon the door or shown him 'the way'? I have observed some of the power clubs recruit or manage draftees who were considered outside the Top 20 and develop them into high quality team members. The AFL and the Gold Coast Suns have sought the footy public's attention by being a "glory before substance" club. Bluey and Rocket, whilst not being as effective as Sheedy or Roos can't be blamed beyond some basic inadequacies. The fish was rotten at the head from Day 1. The AFL (mostly) and Club management chose a totally wrong strategy to build a club. Heaven help those of us who live on the Gold Coast and support the GC Suns through misguided geographic and moral loyalty.

The Northern Territory would relish a permanent AFL presence, plus player recruitment wouldnt be an issue.

The definition of insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome!!!! Stuey Dew will be perfect to inact the changes the Suns need.

that is interesting since Sevens's SP has plummeted much lower than nine's over the years...

Oh well, it's their money to burn. There are certain metrics indicating that the money has been very well spent.

They played 1 game in Perth... to 33000 in a 60000 seat stadium

The suns had 4 "home" games that weren't at Carrara - in Cairns in front of 3700 people, at the Gabba in front of 6000, in China in front of 10,000 and at Perth in front of 33,000 dockers supporters. I don't think you can read anything into those numbers.

The Suns have already shown they can mix it with Titans as far as attendances go, so I doubt anyone is to worried on that front. At guess, I'd say the Suns' sponsorship revenue is much higher than that of the Titans. As for ratings, certainly low by NRL standards for that market, but otherwise, they're actually ok given how hopeless the two Qld teams have been for a few years now. Anyway, the AFL has its $2.5 billion TV deal, runs for another four seasons, not sure why it would be too worried. As a general proposition, even with declining ratings, you would be foolish to underestimate the value of the AFL to Seven. Earlier in the year, the Herald-Sun published an article: Flying thorugh the pack: How footy is helping Seven trounce Nine Has been helping them for years, since Nine lost the rights to the AFL to be exact. The Herald-Sun shows the following stats: - Seven won 27 of 30 ratings weeks, Nine won three: one before the AFL season, one State of Origin week and the week of the AFL's finals bye. - On the nights when both AFL and NRL were screened, the AFL won ALL 36 nights - Seven's share on the night of the first Preliminary final was 45.4%, Nine's was 24%

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/goldcoast.html All 11 home games in 2018 (regardless of where played) = 13,547 average ------------------------------ https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_carrara.html All 7 home games at carrara for 2018 = 13,593 average The 4 'home' games played elsewhere had a negligible effect on the overall average.

@Harry but you’re dead wrong! All of the Suns home game of 2018 count towards the 13k. The SUNS start with a designated 'home' game against Fremantle at Optus Stadium on Saturday, followed a week later by an away game against West Coast. http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2018-04-04/suns-prepare-for-perth-stay

"What these new Clubs have shown the AFL HQ is that AFL is nowhere near as popular as they think they are and it probably even annoys them that the two largest states by population prefer other sport." I don't believe the AFL ever thought otherwise. They've always said this is a multi-decade project. ----------------------- Isn't it funny how the same people who complained that the Suns and GWS would 'win the next 10 flags' are now complaining that neither has been successful fast enough? No pleasing some people. AFL should have done a better job setting up the Suns but the Suns also didn't do themselves any favours either. Lots of mistakes were made by both. Now hopefully they have the right people in place. IMO their retention issues are being overplayed. Most of the players that left have all left due to issues that have now (hopefully) been addressed. Consider this year year 1, this is how the Suns should have started life, with highly credentialed coaches, staff and admin as well as proper facilities.

Most people on here have absolutely no idea about Brisbane. Brisbane is great. Our main appeal in terms of AFL players is anonymity. Brisbane is a very laid back place and most people don't give a stuff about recognising sportspeople in public. Lachie Neale himself said one thing that really appealed to him was being able to walk down the streets of the CBD with Chris Fagan and go have a coffee without anyone giving a stuff, he said if he tried that in Perth with Ross Lyon there'd have been people swarming them for autographs. I'd sooner cut my nuts off with a rusty razor than live in Sydney.

The Hawks and Pies have a mass of flags and history to base their identity on. I'm not stating the Pies identify only with the suburb of Collingwood, though thats where the club provides shelter for the homeless and does most of its charity work. Identity is what I'm talking about. If you don't have it, you bring it in like with South Melbourne - Sydney and Fitzroy-Brisbane, then feed off it. The Gold Coast Saints would have had a fair start, the Gold Coast Suns have been an ill conceived and poorly administered mess and it's hard to see them digging their way out of it.

I can't speak for Pete, but my arguments surrounding the history issue is that whilst it might not matter directly to the players, establishing a club in an area with minimal history in the code is a challenge. I understand the Gold Coast had the sport already, obviously, and there would've no doubt been a portion of the population considering themselves fans of the sport, there would've been a larger part of the SE Queensland population either intentionally or blissfully ignorant of the sport. This could've been through the poor performances of the area's other club (the Lions post 2004, pre 2017) or through the fact that the area (as seen by the failure of other sporting endeavours, or the fact that the AFL hadn't necessarily made ground in the area pre-Suns). Fact is, the Suns were heading into relatively uncharted territory, and continues to linger in that territory (albeit to a much different level as 2011) today. And I reckon this is where it relates to the players. I can't imagine a player would definitively rule out the Suns because the area has no history in the game or the culture, but having hesitations about the club because of the combination of poor performances, uncertain support and perhaps the apathy of the area's population might be where the the crux of the argument against the Suns lies.

Never has so much money been wasted for so little return.

You think players care about a city’s history? Please. As we have seen with player movement the only thing that matters is “homesickness”, money and Premierships. You think the Hawthorn boys walk around Glenferrie Road or the Collingwood boys hang around and identify with Smith Street or Vic Park? Get real. As mentioned to you plenty times previously, no one that lives on the Gold Coast identifies with Surfers Paradise when there are far more appealing places like Broadbeach, Mermaid Beach, Miami and Burleigh Heads. Ultimately you have your view based on clichés and stereotypes and that’s fine but you can stop trotting it out like you know something about the Gold Coast other than fleeting visits to Surfers Paradise like all tourists.

Good points, PtS. When Freo joined, we had the advantage of being established in a footy-mad state. When the Crows joined, they too had that advantage. The Victorian teams have been around for decades, plus that state invented footy. Lions, as you say, had the Fitzroy history. GWS and the Suns had the distinct disadvantage of being thrown into areas not commonly associated with football - instead of trying to garner support from established supporters of the code already, they were trying to create that support of the code, let alone support for the team. I've no doubt it's difficult to forge an identity. GWS is doing a lot better than their northern counterparts, clearly, but I don't profess to have the answers to Gold Coast woes.

"Sorry, I can’t see how they will ever be successful…. ditto the Giants". People said this about the Brisbane Bears and Sydney Swans constantly during the early to mid-90’s and those Clubs were in far worse condition when it came to financial support, crowds, facilities etc. when compared with what the Suns and Giants have in place in 2018. Let’s review after the 15 year mark and then again at 20 years and see where they sit. What these new Clubs have shown the AFL HQ is that AFL is nowhere near as popular as they think they are and it probably even annoys them that the two largest states by population prefer other sport. Fremantle were a basket case for the first 15 years of their existence in the AFL and they were coming from a AFL mad city in Perth with all the advantages that comes with their location. You cannot seriously have expected that the Suns and Giants would be at the same level financially as long established Clubs with history and generational support? Which Clubs are being detrimentally affected from a funding perspective due to the inclusion on the Suns and Giants?

Gold Coast isn't one centralized city, its a coastal strip stretching from Southport to Tweed Heads.... Plenty of the locals play and support rugby league. Southport has a decent Australian Rules Football team in the QAFL so there was already an AFL fanbase there to some extent... but given all the failures of professional sport on the strip, why did the AFL in all its wisdom think it would succeed where 4 previous professional rugby league teams and a couple of NBA franchises had already failed? Its not like we didn't have an idea right? The AFL used to HAVE an AFL team on the Gold Coast... the Brisbane Bears, or ''The Gold Coast Koalas'' as they were mockingly called. It wasn't till they moved to Brisbane that they began to get the crowds and corporate support that any club needs to survive. Demetrious folly will continue to dog the AFL, and particularly the Lions until it is wound up. Sorry, I cant see how they will ever be successful.... ditto the Giants... we paper over the cracks in their armour because they are winning, wont be long before we are having the same discussion about them. They are a bit different because Mike Fitzpatrick owns the company that manages Metricon stadium and they get millions guaranteed by the AFL every year ...….and there is no conflict of interest there whatsoever ...so the AFL will continue to fund them to the detriment of other clubs for a bit longer, but their day of reckoning is coming as well.