Manly and Canberra debunk the rebuild myth

So no more excuses for clubs eh!

It really comes to when you talk about rebuilding, it's the culture of the place, rather than the playing group. Whether it's getting back to what you do best like the Bulldogs are trying to do (invest in juniors, supplement them with experienced first graders to add to the overall strength). Or someone like the Titans, who I would argue actually have a very good roster, just a poor culture and one that a strong coach, who demands a high work ethic could instil in the team over the next 2-3 years. But either way, someone has to finish down the bottom of the table. And at that point you have to questions the clubs culture. Is it wrong? Did we recruit poorly? Was it just bad luck getting injuries to key players at the wrong times? All teams should be doing this analysis each season even if your winning, cause as soon as you think you have it right, the other clubs catchup.

When I was a young dad a million years ago, my sons played for Avalon and I’m sure Stephen Knight played for Avalon a few years up from my boys, and one of my sons used to play the Harboard side that had Ricky Chisholm in it. Little snowy haired kid, good player. He passed away back in 2007. He would have been about 46 or 47.

The only juniors playing for Manly are Jake & Tom Trbojevic & Brad Parker (Manly Christian Brothers). Case Cust is a Scone Thoroughbreds junior. Clint Gutherson, Will Hopoate, Kieran Foran, Darcy & Joey Lussick are current juniors playing for other teams.

Manly have 3 juniors in their current team Jake & Tom Trbojevic (Mona Vale Raiders), Brad Parker (Manly Christian Brothers). Squad members & Current Juniors playing for other teams Clint Gutherson (Cromer Kingfishers), Albert & Will Hopoate (Manly Cove Rebels), Kieran Foran (Asquith Magpies), Darcy & Joey Lussick (Beacon Hill Bears)....... Past juniors:- Notable former local juniors: Ken Arthurson Phil Blake – Manly Christian Brothers RLFC Johnny Bliss – North Narrabeen Surf Club Bill Bradstreet – Manly Christian Brothers RLFC Roy Bull Peter Burke – Manly Christian Brothers RLFC Rick Chisholm Ivan Cleary – Beacon Hill Bears Adam Cuthbertson – Avalon Bulldogs Phil Daley – Narraweena Hawks Matt Dunford – Narraweena Hawks Jack Elsegood – Narrabeen Sharks Scott Fulton Brett Fulton Daniel Gartner – Narrabeen Sharks Russel Gartner – Narrabeen Sharks John Gibbs – Narrabeen Sharks Tony Jensen Fred Jones John Jones Craig Hancock – Narraweena Hawks Sam Harris – Avalon Bulldogs John Harvey John Hopoate – Manly Cove Rebels Jason King – Belrose Eagles Stephen Knight – Manly RUFC Max Krilich – Harbord United Devils Darcy Lussick – Beacon Hill Bears Adam MacDougall – Harbord United Devils Ian Martin – Narraweena Hawks Vic Mauro – North Curl Curl Knights Steven Menzies – Harbord United Devils Chad Randall – North Curl Curl Knights Terry Randall – North Curl Curl Knights Ray Ritchie David Ronson Chris Ryan – Narrabeen Sharks Frank Stanton Frank Stokes – Manly Cove Rebels Alan Thomson – Manly Christian Brothers RLFC Geoff Toovey – Belrose Eagles Rex Mossop – Manly RUFC Anthony Watmough – Narrabeen Sharks Max Whitehead – Narrabeen Sharks Mark Willoughby Fred Yakich – Harbord United Devils Nick Yakich – Harbord United Devils Current NRL players:

Firstly, don't confuse tribal banter with an attempt to paint a picture that ALL NRL talent is produced by the Rabbitohs exclusively. That said, the Rabbitohs have a better record of producing or promoting promising talent who then debute in the NRL with Souths than the Sea Eagles and the Roosters combined. Manly have 4 South Sydney juniors or at least players who started their pre-NRL careers in the Rabbitohs lower grades (Walker, Fonua-Blake, Koroisau and Gosiewski). There are ZERO Manly juniors playing for the Rabbitohs. Tom Amone played for Blacktown Workers so he is hardly a Manly Northern Beaches junior. Liam Knight, played ONE game for Manly but he played his junior rugby league for The Entrance Tigers and Berkeley Vale Panthers. So again, NOT a Manly junior. The only juniors playing for Manly are Turbo, Jurbo and Cust. Meanwhile, Souths have 6 South Sydney juniors in their full strength starting 17 team (Sutton, Reynolds, Johnston, Murray, Graham and Roberts). Added to that a further 8 players in Souths first 20 debuted in the NRL with Souths and with the exception of Surgess played lower grades for Souths (Surgess, Turgess, Gurgess, Burns, Tatola, Doueihi, Turner, and Allan). Do you get the point now?

But Trent (the Lowes catalogue model) comes with outdoor furniture!!!

I agree that rebuild is a myth but you’ve chosen the wrong teams to illustrate that. Manly as per FortyTwenty’s comments below have been putting together a roster for some time now. Its not just a miraculous change although I do attribute some of their success to Hasler. The Turbo brothers have now matured into good players but its taken them some time. The acquiring of the likes of Taupau and Sironen who are both now at the ‘peak’ age for their positions. Its taken Manly a few lean years of rebuilding to get back to their best. Same as the Raiders, they’ve been up and down the last few years rebuilding their team and finally getting together a core group. Not to mention the englishmen and they finally found a decent fullback and moved Wighton to 6. The team that puts the rebuild myth to bed is the Melbourne Storm. Over the last 5 years they’ve lost players you could build a premiership winning team around – Slater, Cronk, Widdop, Tohu, Proctor, Mclean, Koroibete, not to mention O’Neil, Duffie, Green, Slade, Hampton and even Juniors like Turpin and Drinkwater. Bellamy has always said there is no such thing as a rebuild, every year the goal is to win the premiership with the team that you have and the best example of that was seasons 2011 /2012 when the roster was gutted after 2010 they won the Minor Premiership in 2011 and the premiership in 2012 and have made the finals, mostly top four every year since.

Developing players? Most of the Raiders pommie recruits were International rep players before coming to the NRL like Dyan Walker for Manly. Rebuilding does NOT refer exclusively to developing homegrown talent which a part from Turbo, Jurbo and Cust Manly don't do. Rebuilding involves recruitment as much as anything else. Out with the old and in with the new. So both Manly and the Raiders are proof this is NOT a myth!

And your point PS is? According to you everything is a Souths junior, every club has the opportunity to identify what others can’t, every club has the chance to develop what others can’t, maybe Souths can’t identify or develop talent!

Yes Mary I agree totally with your article's subject, duration, heading and initial paragraphs and, as my moniker indicates I would know substantially more about "Rebuilding" an NRL team than the commentators who have replied. Any coach whi uses that term is a coach you don't want. It's all about the current season, no excuses, always. Whatever long-term player contracts are there when a coach starts are no surprise. For signing a coach, two or three year terms are ideal, if they improve the team's performance and results each year you keep them on. It's not rocket science. This could be a term used suggestively by some writers, or tv commentators, etc, but it's no more than that, part of a general chit chat when it seems clear that a team will not crack the top eight. Again.

I think this is precisely Mary's point Baz - the Raiders didn't need a massive rebuild - more of a fine tune with 3 leaving the squad (Austin, Paulo and Boyd) and 3 recruited (CNK, J Bateman and Ryan Sutton). Funnily enough I just met Ryan Sutton down at the Lyneham IGA doing a bit of grocery shopping. I said how great it was to see the team doing so well this year and he laughed that they doing really well without him in the past month or so. Seemed like a good lad. Hope he can fight his way back into the team. Interesting that the Knights went for a massive rebuild in the off season but I don't think they had much choice given their position on the ladder in previous seasons. I think they will come good in time. Its taken Ricky about 5 or 6 seasons. They had their chance in 2016 but couldn't quite make the big dance and look like the may have another opportunity this year. But there are another 5 or so teams that look capable of winning this year. I don't subscribe to the Gus Gould theory that the Roosters or the Storm are the only teams that can win it.

Name the players Bob brought to club

The person who told me that Bozo was coming back to the club looked a bit surprised when I told him that it was great news. It's not what others were telling him. I said to keep an eye on the pack he'll put together. It's got his fingerprints all over it. Whoever was recruiting before he arrived did a terrible job. Only one forward was up to speed , Jurbo. The critics couldn't see what he was doing because they didn't understand how poor the roster was. Forget about a five year plan. I'd prefer his methods to the alternative.

I think Bennett rates Allen pretty highly but rarely does he ever throw rookies in for a full season. I think he actually said at the start that Allen wasn't NRL ready but he would start via the wing if he had to come in. Graham is a better option there atm as well. Allen had massive wraps on him coming through grades, it'll be interesting if ol coach gets the best out of him and how well he can go.

Good call.

You misunderstand me, I never said he wrecked the team. I wrote last year that only minor changes would see success for this team. https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/10/06/the-only-negative-is-that-the-season-is-over/ As most cases of dodgy deals that break the rules, you can sign whoever you want, get caught, get penalised, have the club pay the fine, move on a few mid-range players to become cap-compliant again. His fingers are all over this as well. Internally though, for a bloke employed as a consultant, he influence was astounding and nepotism was ridic. Anyone who questioned his methods, proven to be illegal, was sacked. His daughter was running roughshod over the admin dept, got sacked by the CEO, Bozo steps in and the CEO and his EA goes. However, when the NRL come calling - Bozo goes.

You can throw Eels in this category with the Raiders and Manly to

Is that rebuilding? I think rebuilding is developing young players and taking losses while you do it. What you described is salary cap management and recruitment?

It's a fine line between being too old and too inexperienced. I think one of the keys to Bennett's Broncos success in the past was in always moving a few on every year.