Oh to be a fly on the wall at Rugby Australia

You feeling like victims? Probably based on how much Aussies whine. It is hard to understand from far away.

good points jd. the biggest point missed by rugby fans in australia is our winning record historically. australia beats nz almost 3 in every 10 games, 4 in every 10 games against springboks and 50 / 50 against england, our long term norm is between 3 and 4 in the world. when other countries are strong, we are lower. we have been dominant in about 10 of the past 100 plus years. when we transition from amatuer to professional, australia did this better than most, which improved the above numbers, otherwise we would be lower.

What I am saying is that compared to that era, the demands are much higher. I believe all clubs train 32 hours a week during the week. The 8 is their day off. But then when they don’t play they’ll have weekend training. When they do there will be travel and recovery. They will generally have 6 days of commitments minimum. We have guys who basically lived in the amateur time of professionalism (ie training 20 hours or less a week which was still a big jump), saying these guys who have commitments they never had, need to do more.

Ken some parents retain a say in their kid's decisions quite late, especially the Islander kids. I was thinking of say a club wants to sign a talented 17-18 year old who likely will not play SR until he/she is 20+, so college or uni assistance would be a huge inducement. NFJ just spoke of public speaking but I think RA and the franchises could go a step further.

TWAS, I didn't know at the time when I typed those posts that the Roar have video of what Nick Farr-Jones said. Maybe you should listen to what NFJ (ex CEO of the Tahs) says as he seems to think that SR (and WB within the ranks) players do have an hour or two to promote the game once in a while? And ofc I know that today's professional spends way more time devoted to training, touring and playing compared to even the mid 1990's. I don't want to take the pi$$ but seriously are you trying to tell me with a straight face that players train 40 + hours a week Mon-Fri when in their home towns, then collapse exhausted at home so just don't have time to get to a promotional at a club game or a local school once every 6-7 weeks ? At present it's not working and the game is poorer for it so something has to change. I believe that many of the players just couldn't be bothered and the franchises will always listen to the players . So RA has to get the players and franchises on board, perhaps put it in their contracts of a specific number of PR visits per year and pay the franchises "promotional" money. And what NFJ said about RA actively assisting players into preparing for post-playing careers holds weight, even if its just one afternoon a week during the season.

If Kearns can double the Fox deal then great, he gets my support!

I wonder how much of a cut in Johnson's salary is. And Snoz. And Rennie. Now those blokes should get 10%. They are doing nothing. And what about the Super coaches.

Ok Train lets take the sentimentality out if it. Let’s just design contracts better so that we can have more contact with elite players, and elite player don’t get to feel so elite. Think of the ramifications of including ‘social balance enablers’ in all contracts (including coaches :happy: ) historically? We may not have had the early Quade and early JOC delinquency, the Kurtley rebellion on the plane, (which led, I believe, to the great excitement of Cheika, then another side of Cheika). AAC’s night out in England The abdication of McKenzie, etc etc. The list goes on. Then the great upheaval of Izzygate, (another type of entitled behaviour, but to be fair to Izzy he had a strong community in his ear, strong, narrow and myopic). We have had numerous sliding door moments (as well as a general distancing culture) during our 20 plus years of professionalisation. You are correct to challenge the ‘well back in my day’ brigade, but that’s not what this is, is it? Rugby is a team game and in this country 25 million are in the the team. (And of course many of that number don’t know what rugby is, which gets back to the point) How do we form a connecting scrum?

“ if I was a RA agent trying to get a kid to sign a contract, I cannot think of a better argument to put to that child’s parents.” Agree Thugby. Except that the age of the player at later signings will not require parental involvement.

It’s not a silly idea at all Bobby. It is my belief that part of the whole Izzygate problem was the air we gave him to breathe. We were grateful to have his unique attack talent in the team for sure, but we made some social errors. Maybe we were too grateful. Allowing him to align with one of the elite Sydney clubs instead of the Emus or Parra was a mistake. (He was not the only one allowed to feed into a club that did not need its roots watered). Social isolation happens to the rich as well as the poor, and it’s good for neither. I accept what TrainWAS says about the workload of modern players, but something could be dropped from that schedule to include the two important factors of : – post rugby career, a trade, profession or degree (with achievement/attendance expectations), and – community rugby engagement, be it at district or club level. (TPN I believe remained devoted to Parramatra) Both of these factors would provide at least an opportunity for social balance for a professional sportsman, at least one or two times a week that he or she is pushing in another more common, and lower paid, scrum. I can hear objections that it would be too ‘prescriptive’ but school visits and club connection are already prescribed. However what we have done so far has not delivered the well balanced dynamic/attitude/connection that PF and NFJ have referenced. MacQueen famously said before a huge test when families were invited into camp ‘there’s more to life than rugby’.

Players today at Super Rugby franchises are spending 4 full days a week at training. But then they will still have Saturday or Sunday sessions in addition if they don’t have a game This wasn’t the case in 1996. There was actually an increase in the commitment during Dwyer’s tenure prior to the RWC. It’s mentioned in Eales’ biography.

that just isn't true 1995 they played 4 regular super 10 games , 1996 super 12 they played 11 regular games. Pre 1996 there were restrictions on how much before a test a team could get together etc. Also from 1997 when McQueen took over there was a lot more specific training introduced. A lot of the current players do act entitled.

The current players only look entitled compared to the era he talks about when you don’t consider they have so much more in commitments today than that era. Eales was basically paid $500k to train and play the same as the year before when it was amateur. Now they’re training 6 days a week, 48 weeks of the year, clinics, school visits, sponsor engagements, watching their diet, etc. And only the best are earning more than $500k.

Now you’ve had your chance to criticise the players, why don’t we compare the schedule and the commitments to the players in 1996? Wallabies played about 11 Super Rugby games and about 8 tests. The 2019 RWC Wallabies started their pre season in January and thanks to a short season their off season started in Mid-October, before being back in January again. This is the shortest season in the last 4 years where from January to October they were training intensely, watching their diet, what they ate, planned their life around about 23 individual games, did analysis at home, extras, some sponsor engagements, school visits, etc. Then in mid October they get back. And it’s not 10 weeks of pure break. They’re expected to maintain a level of fitness so they come back in decent condition. The fact is the demands on the elite players have increased exponentially since Fitz’s era and many of his generation seem rather oblivious to that. In Fitz’s day these extra circular activities weren’t planned by the Super Rugby teams and Wallabies. So the players chose what they wanted to be involved in.

Thanks for that TWAS. Certainly makes more sense than Kearns!

I agree. The self entitlement of the current players and management is an absolute disaster for the game. They’re not good enough to demand what they are demanding anyway

But how are you going to pay for it?

I have to say that Fitsimmons article is right on then money , it really grates me to say that as generally I am at the opposite end of the spectrum with his views. What it shows is that irrespective of what you believe , the majority of the rugby fraternity want only the best for the game .

Ack, typo alert. 2nd last paragraph, ".. If these 3 extra teams are included then similar to 6-N, play each other only once on a home and away basis ..." I can see that could cause confusion, I mean play each other team only once in this years competition, but this week is a home game and next week is an away game. Then next year the teams I played at home this year are away games and vice versa. Similar to how the 6-Nations is played.