Super Rugby not working for Australia – Moore

TWAS, Yes. And when, in 1982 it was decided to use the State of Origin policy for the whole 3 game series (thus marking the official begining of SOO as we know it), the ARL decided to rename the series as such. I.e they weren't trying to claim it was something else and either the Maroons or Blues weren't trying to be something they weren't. Integrity and transparency of structures, union bodies, who they represent and how they interact is greatly undervalued in Aust rugby.

I’m not sure how a competition with a lower standard of play, which would be the case in a domestic competition; let’s not kid ourselves over that, Would help the Wallabies. They’ve already gone from 2nd in the world to 6th or 7th and while most of that can be laid at the feet of the previous management team, playing a lower standard won’t help

Loosely actually apparently AFL and NRL seasons are drawn up based on standings the year prior to deliver a more even competition. So you if you are a top team, you play more of last year’s top teams twice.

Surely the limitations of travel was a significant factor in drawing up the conferences. Presumably the regular season was drafted with travel minimisation in mind. That is a problem in itself. I think that means teams go on the road for longer?

Well of course its not working. Why would you fly 12 hours + to a game? Just to play a game in Perth would be at least 7 hours of return travel. Why would the competition choose to play games between teams further apart than Brisbane and Perth? Makes absolutely no economic sense not to mention the time lost in travel. Back to the simple stuff. With current restrictions on travel, now is absolutely the time to set up/support/nurture strong indigenous competitions within states and maybe consider a wider competition which includes NZ. Put it on free to air and watch it grow. How much money has been spent on hotels and travel in the last few years? A frightening amount I should think.

I think that the creators of the NRC had an opportunity to harness that tribalism but blew it. Now it seems other states have embraced it(if comments on this site are representative) further disenfranchising the Sydney market. Love it or hate it it is still the biggest market this country has. To just keep knocking Sydney is just exacerbating that issue

I would far prefer a strong domestic competition. Super Rugby has been on life support for years and the costs in travel alone are unsustainable.

@Joe It already is domestic in NZ with the great Mitre 10 Cup and is/was always for Foxsports/Kayo. Great competition and most of the NZ provincial teams would beat Rebels, Reds and Tahs imo. Plus you can see the conveyer belt of fantastic young talent coming through the NZ system :stoked:

My preference would be to split the existing SANZAAR window into two distinct competitions: (1) a domestic competition with community engagement at the centre of the design; and (2) an international competition with broadcast appeal at the centre of the design: 1. Domestic Component – A “John Eales Cup”: • 5/6 team domestic competition played in ~12 week window • Simple home and away round robin with a semi and final. • Reds, Rebels, Waratahs, Brumbies, Force & Fiji Drua. • Customise scheduling to engage local markets. • Smaller stadiums used wherever possible. (e.g. Brookvale, North Sydney, Bankwest) • All matches played and broadcast as double headers off the back of traditional club and school rivalries. Revenue sharing arrangements with clubs in place. (e.g. In NSW context – this means double headers with Manly vs Warringah @ Brookvale, Easts vs Randwick @ Moore Park, Gordon vs Norths @ North Sydney Oval, St Joseph’s College vs St Ignatius College, Knox vs Barker, etc.) 2. International Component – A SANZAAR Finals Series or World Club Competition • Top 2 teams from the Domestic Comp qualify for a SANZAAR or World Club Competition based ‘final’ series. • ~ 8 week window. • A global club tournament would be the Mecca in terms of appeal to broadcasters. The next best thing would be a SANZAAR nations final series linking up with winners of equivalent domestic comps in NZ & SA. • The bottom 4 teams from domestic comps could play in a SANZAAR or Trans-Tasman based challenge cup to provide additional content. GRR also an option if teams do not qualify.

Micko, Well, that's changed now. All the Wallabies & super rugby teams are becoming increasingly filled by PI heritage players & recent interlopers, as Aussies desert to play croquet, or who knows what else. It's a weird world now in many respects.

Great insights Muglair.

It’s almost like it’s became a professional game, not local representative rugby...

What I mean sheek is why weren't positions opened up for PI players on Australian & NZ SR teams? It seems harsh starting up a southern hemisphere pro rugby comp and never letting these players participate. Surely expanding SR to WA & Victoria was the perfect time to allow a couple of positions for PI players to open up on the rosters?!

They stole the concept TWAS. The mighty WA Sandgropers belted the Vics at Subiaco Oval in 1977....and don't you forget it TWAS! :silly:

The problem was Sheek the "provincial" nature of SR was disingenuous from the start. The kiwis and saffas had actual provincial comps existing already, where a lot of them are merging for the sake of SR, and the ACT Brumbies were presumably heavily propped up with NSW & Qld players to be competitive. So I think SR was kind of awkward from the start, and then they expand here to Perth with the Western Force with how many local West Aussies playing for that side? :stoked:

Club rugby is thriving? Maybe ask Penrith fans ... Oh, wait. That's in the western suburbs. We all know that Sydney ends at Drummoyne. I wouldn't call a bunch of North Shore socialites rocking up to North Sydney Oval for a afternoon of hobnobbing an indication of the game "thriving". Quite the opposite, actually. Rugby is more insular and class orientated than ever.

I do not think the SR clubs have given too much thought, and even less effort, into engaging with fans. I think the word tribal is tossed around too much, it makes it sound like a real step up from where we are whereas I think the answer is a lot closer than that. It took me about 25 years to get my head around the Waratahs being a club not a representative team. The players kept talking about it but I did not get it. I went to a special open training session for members last year. Being at 10am the attendance was not great but we got to spend a lot of time talking to the players as well as watching them train. With the Waratahs on the move I had not intended to see more than a game or two. Years of watching them play poorly every game had left me a little jaded! I regained my enthusiasm and went to 4 games and would have seen more except they were killing me and I gave up. I rang them, I emailed them, I stopped Gibson in the street but no more training sessions. That is what happens in a club, you see the players, you know the players and your mates are there too. You are part of it. These professional administrations do not understand rugby clubs so they have plenty of great "marketing" ideas instead. All these gimmicks at the game. How much money are they spending on "event planners"? Sure the game day experience is important but my observation is that most fans are not interested and it certainly is doing nothing to get a bigger crowd along anyway.

Micko, Pretty simple really. The Pacific Islands had no wealth to offer professionalism other than the natural ability & athleticism of their players. Not enough disposable income to buy Pay-TV subs or multi-sponsors products. So they got shut out as worthless. pretty disgraceful actually. The God money wins every time. Or most times...

NRL SOO began in 1980, pinching the idea from AFL SOO in 1977.

Micko, I'm stating State of Origin is plastic, make that artificial. But sometimes artificial works. None of my boyhood mythical heroes - Robin Hood, King Arthur, etc - were real. But that hasn't detracted from my enjoyment of them. Most of religion is probably artificial, but if it gives people a purpose to their lives, that's not a bad thing. State of Origin is artificial, but boy it works. Here's the downside though, rugby league has nothing else. It is so limpet mine attached to the rigid two state system, it has next to no hope of ever evolving out of, or beyond the SOO concept. But while the SOO artificial concept works, flog it for all its worth, I say! But let's be brutally honest here, super rugby has also been artificial since inception. Who are the Blues? Don't you dare call them Auckland! And don't even dare say the Bulls come from Northern Transvaal. The Brumbies actually come from a very tiny & boring place. But they would rather you think they represent the whole of Australia. That's why they avoid ACT in their name. Yep, super rugby has been getting away with artificiality for 24 years.....