The bluster of the Pies

By Les Zig / Roar Guru

Something that has ceased to amaze me is how easily fans can be spun.

On Monday morning, Gerard Whateley interviewed Nathan Buckley on SEN regarding the exodus at Collingwood.

Buckley admitted that the players were traded out due to salary cap pressure, and that because of Collingwood’s lack of leverage they weren’t able to get market value.

Immediately across social media, fans praised Buckley for his honesty, and asserted that it should’ve been Buckley who spoke to the masses after the trade period closed, rather than Ned Guy that evening, and Geoff Walsh the next morning.

I guess everything’s okay then.

Hang on.

Great, Buckley was honest. But his honesty doesn’t alter the fact that two senior members from Collingwood’s footy department tried to sell different messages to the public, claiming the trades weren’t primarily motivated by a salary cap issue.

Also, let’s consider that both Adam Treloar and Jaidyn Stephenson condemned Buckley’s communication with them. Buckley’s honesty in the Whateley interview doesn’t change that fact.

Nor does it change how Collingwood tried to push Adam Treloar out of the club on the premise he wouldn’t be able to perform at an elite standard in 2021 with his wife relocating to Queensland.

(Photo by Adam Trafford/AFL Media/Getty Images)

And in no way does Buckley’s interview mitigate how Collingwood managed their salary cap to the extent that after just three successive years of finals, it burst from the seams, and players had to be shed – not just Treloar, Stephenson and Tom Phillips this year, but also James Aish last year.

Or why the footy department decided to go all in on Dayne Beams, when they must’ve recognised a bloating salary cap and how it would only become more problematic as young guns asked for pay increases.

Or that the club paid overs for Dayne Beams – witness what the Bulldogs paid for Treloar, and North Melbourne for Stephenson, when Collingwood had no option but to offload. Brisbane were eager to move Beams out, yet were able to extract two first-rounders out of Collingwood. Good on Brisbane for exposing Collingwood’s lack of trade nous.

Our standards and expectations must be so low if a little honesty can win us over in face of a cavalcade of disasters.

The truth is Buckley’s interview in no way addresses any of these issues.

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All it addresses is the ‘why’ of it.

Although that seems a wavering motivation in itself.

On Tuesday during his Triple M Hot Breakfast show, Collingwood president Eddie McGuire backed the brutal list management.

McGuire claimed the media were coming after the club. Why wouldn’t they?

Collingwood forced out a player who they’d spent two pick sevens to acquire, and a Rising Star they’d drafted at pick six. And for what? Pick 14?

And the claim they wanted to go back to the draft to bring in young talent? Isn’t Stephenson – and Tom Phillips, for that matter – just that?

Why wouldn’t the media go after you?

They would be negligent if they didn’t.

McGuire also backed Collingwood’s handling of the salary cap.

(Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)

“If there’s a criticism it’s that Collingwood have looked after players too good as far as the salary cap was concerned and long-term contracts,” he said.

“And players have been sensational back-ending their contracts to make it happen because there was a window of opportunity.”

Here’s McGuire trying to frame this positively.

Has anybody bought it?

So let’s praise Collingwood for signing players to long unwieldly contracts and overpaying them in a competition that has a strict salary cap?

Well done, Collingwood. You paid players too much, and you signed contracts that were too long, and somehow that didn’t work out for you.

This is like saying it was a good idea for the Titanic to hit the iceberg as it gave them a chance to test out that they had too few lifeboats.

Collingwood cannot spin this.

They shouldn’t be allowed to spin this.

And if you’ve started to get over it, get back under it.

This was a failure of governance on so many different levels.

Even if Collingwood had been honest with their supporters prior to their draft about needing to cut the list (which I’m not saying they needed to do), and even if Nathan Buckley had handled that first media gig once the trade period had closed, all these issues still exist.

And yet there are some who’ll tell you it’s part of some grand strategy and it’s all okay.

Ned Guy and Geoff Walsh assured us it was about replenishing the list, although if this was the strategy it must’ve been recently concocted given Collingwood, by their own admission, didn’t consider moving Treloar on until his partner had signed with the Queensland Firebirds.

Ned Guy. (Photo by Dylan Burns/AFL Photos via Getty Images)

Then there’s the simple truth that for all the trade finagling, Colingwood have come away with just the single pick 14, while losing a swath of middling picks. How exactly does one additional low first-rounder help you replenish the list?

Mark Anderson assured us it was about creating space so we could court free agents, although this sounded like a loose assertion to try find some justification that might appeal to everybody.

We also don’t know how the treatment of Treloar might’ve damaged Collingwood as a potential destination. If I were a player on the outside looking in, I’d be distrustful of signing any big contract with Collingwood after all this.

Nathan Buckley admitted it was a means to get all the hurting out of the way with the salary cap, although they remain obligated to Dayne Beams for the next two years, and Adam Treloar for the next five.

Rumours abound that they are also paying a portion of Tom Phillips’ contract at Hawthorn. What about Stephenson? Are Collingwood also paying part of his contract at North Melbourne? Can the club answer these queries?

Also, given all the impromptu salary cap juggling and rejigging, are we certain that Collingwood will be clear of any salary cap breaches?

But, don’t worry, because according to Eddie McGuire, this is all just a pivot – a necessity to reevaluate in the shifting AFL landscape.

If it’s a strategy, how is it the five principle figures at Collingwood cannot agree on the message?

The biggest defence of the trading so far comes from a handful of the fans: the three players in question – Treloar, Stephenson and Phillips – had substandard returns in 2020, and given the money were on they were expendable.

Really? Players are judged on a single season, despite the body of contrary evidence behind them?

(Photo by Quinn Rooney/Getty Images)

I guess Brodie Grundy and Jordan de Goey should watch their backs in case that second trade period is introduced.

Otherwise, the biggest counters are as sophisticated as “Get over it” or “It’s done – let’s look forward to 2021” or “Wait and see.”

Just loose airy generalisations that have no basis in logic and all fall back on that good old black and white patriotism. And out comes the condemnation if you don’t agree. You’re not a true supporter. Or you don’t get it. Or you’re an idiot.

Look around. It’s not just me questioning this, but ranks of Collingwood supporters, as well as numerous media analysts.

Do we all have it wrong?

Do people who don’t even support Collingwood in the media – such as David King and Garry Lyon – have it wrong for questioning what’s happened?

Are we wrong to keep asking questions?

Just to reiterate: this isn’t about trading out players, but the mess that surrounds it on so many different levels.

Instead of any genuine examination of it all – and there’s a lot to untangle – the answer is trust in blind faith. Hmmm. Okay.

I might just go answer that email I got today about inheriting $500,000,000 from that distinguished UK banker who addressed me as “Dear Sir.”

As a Collingwood supporter, what disheartens me is the way the club has cycled through various tacks, ranging from stonewalling, to diplomacy, to forthrightness, to bluster, and now most recently with empathy as Eddie McGuire tells he’s not just an elected official, but a supporter like the rest of the us, and he’s hurting too, damn it!

Maybe Collingwood will sacrifice some administrator to appease supporter outrage (although that would surely be an admission of culpability), but when you examine the process of how this occurred, why it occurred, and how it was handled, the reality is simple: this is bigger than one individual.

And instead of spin, bluster, and the typical call to arms, how about Collingwood demonstrate some genuine accountability?

This was just not good enough.

The Crowd Says:

2020-12-11T22:46:45+00:00

Pumping Dougie

Roar Guru


Its reported today in news.com.au and The Age that Pies and Dogs have agreed to terms on Treloar's contract and Collingwood has agreed to fund $1.5m over 5 years and Dogs $3m, which is what the Dogs were saying all along - which suggests once again that Collingwood and Eddie were lying. Mind boggling incompetence, dishonesty and unprofessionalism from Collingwood. Well done Dogs on sorting this mess out without chest-beating.

2020-11-23T09:45:34+00:00

adhitya0710

Roar Rookie


This is naaaasty! "This is like saying it was a good idea for the Titanic to hit the iceberg as it gave them a chance to test out that they had too few lifeboats"

2020-11-23T05:01:11+00:00

AdamDilligafThompson

Roar Rookie


100%, well done.

2020-11-23T03:28:43+00:00

Ditto

Roar Rookie


Although the last trade relies on a certain amount of 'goodwill' extended by North, it a long bow from draft tampering. I actually think the above series of trades work on every level, in that all teams benefit enough for them to do the deals and are affordable for Collingwood. The advantage of dealing with Adelaide is they control the destiny of Logan McDonald, in fact it's not much of a stretch to do a deal with Adelaide, swapping pick 2 for pick 1, for Adelaide that might be the same player. This would guarantee Collingwood getting McDonald and have the added bonus of extracting a pound of dog meat by bidding on JUH first.

2020-11-23T02:56:50+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


I would've thought that it would've had to be in that trade. Collingwood can only trade picks to get number 2 and you would think the AFL wouldn't allow it if the picks weren't worthy of number 2. They'd smell a rat. A top 10 pick and one in the teens would be absolute minimum to get the deal done i would've thought

2020-11-22T19:34:40+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


Would it be draft tampering Kane? I’m unsure of the rules but you may well be right. If the Pies came to Nth prior to the trading of Atu and Stephenson and said, “right, we want your pick 2, here’s how we want to get it” and then put that plan in place, is that tampering? Nth could still say no, couldn’t they, even after a handshake agreement?

2020-11-22T19:24:05+00:00

Peter the Scribe

Roar Guru


If it gets the Pies Logan McDonald, their desired target, it makes sense.

2020-11-22T03:07:02+00:00

pies

Guest


List management at the pies: -Years of recruiting the same types of players - mostly flankers, while ignoring the key positions. -Paying way too much in draft picks when trading in mature players - Treloar, Beams, Aish, Murray. -Wells, Mayne and Beams, all on excessively large contracts, none were needs for the club, yet brought in at the expense of others. -Treloar, Phillips, Stevo, Grundy contracts all too big and/or long. -Cox, Mayne, Reid further extending their contracts to smooth and backend excessive salary. -Backending of multiple players contracts due to no cap space. -Not being in a position to bring in free agents who were desperate needs for the club due to salary cap mismanagement. -All of this culminating in a huge fire sale where quality players were practically given away for little in return, in what appeared to be a last-minute, unplanned, knee-jerk reaction to the cap crisis. -Worst of all, it would have all been predicable to any competent manager, and never should have been allowed to happen in the first place, yet was allowed to continue for years and snowball out of control. -Now the club is still in a position where they will continue to pay for this incompetence by having a number of backended contracts still requiring payment. As well as the privilege of contributing to the salary of players on the lists of oppoosition clubs.

2020-11-21T21:39:49+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


Getting pick 5 is only moving up one spot as they already have 6 and 7. You don't like being challenged do you Thomas, and get rid of the name calling and insulting people's intelligence when someone raises a point. You're carrying on like a 5 year old when you don't get your own way.

2020-11-21T15:05:21+00:00

Thom Roker

Roar Guru


No. You keep ignoring the fact that pick 5 is moving way up the order to get access to one of the highest touted players. You also don't appear to grasp that pick 37 will probably actually come in as the Bulldogs, Port, Collingwood, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane, Hawthorn and maybe Freo have to use picks to match bids inside the first two rounds, which could see as many as 11 picks used inside pick 37 used as points to match bids. A pick in the late 20s is where it will settle.

2020-11-21T11:08:57+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


Not worth even replying to this comment because it’s that far off the mark it’s not funny. Explain to me how pick 16 and 37 which will be about 20 and somewhere in the 40s is worth more than pick 8.

2020-11-21T08:57:21+00:00

Thom Roker

Roar Guru


Either you can’t read very well or you are being deliberately stubborn. Moving up to 5 is an awesome move. Lucky you aren’t the list manager.

2020-11-21T05:55:40+00:00

pablocruz

Roar Rookie


You're obviously not familiar with AFL footy or AFL fans. Back to where you came from, and take your banjo with you.

2020-11-21T03:38:52+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


You can "explain" it all you like but swapping pick 8 for 16 (which will blow out to 20 odd)and a late 2nd round which (which could very well end up as a pick in the 40's) is a loss, it's as simple as that. Or Essendon keep pick 8 and recruit 3 of the best players in the top 10. Club's usually swap picks to move up the draft order but your proposal here is to have Essendon move down the order which in a year like it's been with not many kids playing is ridiculous as after probably pick 12 it's a lottery. You said yourself there are 7 or 8 very good players in the top 20 so why would you give up one of these picks only to slide out of the top 20 when you can have 3 of these top 20 players? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

2020-11-21T02:05:11+00:00

Thom Roker

Roar Guru


I'll explain it one more time. Essendon wouldn't be moving from 6 to 5. They'd be moving from 8 to 5. That on its own is a very expensive move. But they'd only be sliding from 8 to 16 to do it and get 37 as a kicker. 5, 6, 16, 37 gives the Bombers The first round of this draft is clear cut in 3. There's the top 5 players plus Jamarra Ugle-Hagan. The Bombers will be picking outside of this top 6 and hoping just one of the top prospects slide to them at what will be the 7th pick. There are another handful of ungettable players due to NGA, Northern Academies and Father-Son, but there are 7 or 8 very good players in the top 20. This deal would give Essendon one of the "fantastic five", first dibs at the best of the rest (which could be Tanner Bruhn or he goes earlier and the Bombers get 2 shots at the 5 guns. Then pick 16 drifts out to about 20 after bids are matched, so asking for 14 instead of 16 is probably a fair call here considering the Pies would be looking to move both of their picks up the order separately anyway. Pick 14 gets a similar player to pick 8, it just means the choices are narrowed. The reason I had the Pies only offering 16 was because I felt the deal was too good for the Bombers.

2020-11-21T01:32:36+00:00

Kane

Roar Rookie


I couldn't care less if Collingwood get 2nd pick or what they would have to give to get it, I'm saying Essendon would lose out massively on your proposed deal so they wouldn't do it. You're talking in points but points don't mean anything unless the club has top 20 prospects in father/son or nga which Essendon's aren't. Pick 8 is worth more than 16 and a late 2nd round pick especially in this year's draft.

2020-11-21T01:12:49+00:00

Thepiewoman

Roar Rookie


Well said

2020-11-21T00:56:32+00:00

Thepiewoman

Roar Rookie


The Management ( and I use that term loosely) of Collingwood, have a lot to answer to, they have shown incompetence in their inability to perform basic mathematics, they have failed to communicate, they have lied. The Club is in a mess and it’s reputation has been affected. Eddie Maguire’s recent comments are ludicrous in trying to defend the indefensible. Cop it on the chin but don’t try to deny it when the pain is not over yet.... Grundy’s salary is another millstone around Collingwood’s neck.... good luck trying to trade him out given his performance last season.

2020-11-21T00:31:23+00:00

Thom Roker

Roar Guru


Well, for a start, you are misrepresenting the proposed deal because there’s an extra 2nd round pick. Secondly, you’re the one disputing my opinion saying it’s 0% chance of getting up, but you don’t offer any solutions. What else is needed to make the trade work? Does Collingwood need to put up another pick? Is 14 the better option? But no. You can’t see it?

2020-11-20T23:59:20+00:00

Wes P

Roar Rookie


Reminiscent of Jack Elliott's days as Carlton prez. Nearly drove the Navy blue to extinction. You're right to pissed off.

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