Leading Australian referee Angus Gardner has a radical law change he’d like to see in the game – and it’s fair to say it has come as a big surprise to Wallabies Test hooker Dave Porecki.
Gardner, a veteran of more than a 100 Super Rugby games with the whistle, and a former World Rugby Referee of the Year, joined The Roar Rugby Podcast for an intriguing look at the role of a top ref – from the meticulous preparation for each game through to the post match reviews and sleepless nights that can follow big matches.
Listen to Angus Gardner’s chat in the player below or on your podcast app of choice
Gardner told hosts Brett McKay and Harry Jones that the hardest area to police as a referee was the scrum, and noted: “There’s no ex front rowers that are running around refereeing.”
“The hardest area is the scrum, no doubt. It’s super difficult. And it’s one of the areas where we spend most of our time analysing and trying to understand it,” Gardner said.
“Over the last few years we’ve been really lucky across Super Rugby to have dedicated ex-scrum coaches … At World Rugby we’ve had a few different people.
“At the we’ve got Mike Cron, who’s a dedicated resource, and ex-All Blacks scrum coach, who analyses every single scrum – camera side and reverse angle as well.
(Mark Kolbe/Getty Images)
“He looks at both sides for us, tells us what we should be looking at and gives us some guidance around the decisions.
“So we’re getting experts into the tent, and trying to help us because that only benefits the teams at the games. And that’s the most important thing.”
He later added: “The one law that I would change relates to scrums. I reckon the referee should feed the ball to the scrum.
“Everyone talks about scrum feeds, not being straight. Everyone talks about the game being a contest. Get rid of the nines, tell them to stand next to their number eight.
“I’m going to stand in the middle and going to call the scrum in, no one can push, and then I’m going to feed it in the middle and then it’s a genuine hooking contest and pushing contest. I reckon it would make the scrum, a really interesting facet of the game.
“It’s not foreign. You look at AFL – the AFL umpires restart the game with a bounce. They practice their bounce.”
The Roar put Gardner’s idea to current Wallabies hooker Dave Porecki.
”I’ve never thought of that ever in my life,” he laughed.
Porecki said the technical aspect of feeding a scrum, including the work required to get it right, meant the idea was unlikely to work.
“I work with nines, and nines work with hookers and eights. When you’re practicing scrums you’ve got the nines and two connection, nine and eight connection and and also the two and eight connection because I’m picking the channel I’m going to go down.
“It’s still a skill. If you bring a ref into it, they’re going to have to come in and train with you on a Tuesday.””
As for getting scrums fed straight down the middle?
“There’s always a degree of angle because if you feed it down the middle of the scrum, if you think about a hooker’s mobility with their leg they can’t lift their leg up that high.”
Asked for a verdict on Gardner’s desired change, Porecki laughed: “I’d probably rule it out to be fair. But I think it would also be difficult.”
piru
Roar Rookie
Yeah I think sometimes they lose sight of what they are supposed to be trying to achieve.
Dean
Roar Rookie
Nice to hear it from a referee perspective Piru, thank you. There are a couple of Super Refs that leave crazy periods of time between the first 2 moves. Almost like they are waiting to blow it up.
piru
Roar Rookie
The timing is different every time. I haven't reffed much under the current scrum laws, but the instructions when they were being introduced were that you don't make the next call until you're happy with the last one. Ie you don't move onto bind until you're happy with the crouch etc
savant
Roar Rookie
I remember being the last person into scrums in the 70s (I was a prop) and the rest of pack would be formed. I could slot in and bind and we’d pack immediately. It wasn’t just me this was common. So we formed a scrum and bound with a bit of flexibility and found stability before we pushed. The shove really came on with the ball coming in. Nowadays they’re applying pressure when they bind.
Ankle-tapped Waterboy
Roar Rookie
Which is an excellent example of the Rugby thing of "let's add a rule rather than fix the original issue". In this case, both hookers ought to have the opportunity to hook.
Dean
Roar Rookie
I have a counter idea to Angus’ idea. Have a recording of the scrum commands, ref holds a button in, call happens. Release button, whistle goes. That will tidy up the timing disparities we get between refs. Plus, get rid of any scrum advisor/coach that has direct ties to a national union. Ridiculous that Cron is providing that information to the referees. Bias is the only guarantee
The Ferret
Roar Rookie
Like the Gent said you have the position of the hooker but there were other factors that work too for the attacking team. The hooker usually gave a signal to feed and a good 9 could spin/roll the ball in the direction of their team. Everything was also times that when the ball went in the shove started.
The Ferret
Roar Rookie
“Everyone talks about scrum feeds, not being straight. Everyone talks about the game being a contest. Get rid of the nines, tell them to stand next to their number eight.“ So what he is saying is refs can’t enforce the law of the 9’s putting the ball in straight so we should change it? I have a better idea Gus… do your job and make those calls. Be consistent and you will get more praise from us fans than you will for saying this crap.
cs
Roar Guru
I like Angus's thrust to make scrums a "really interesting facet of the game''. His ideas are kin to my preference for starting each half with a scrum. Begone you anti-scrum heathens. Let's bring this weird thing thats come down to us called a scrum more to the fore. As to the ref feeding, I like it, maybe. On another Roar thread, the author is arguing for shorter advantage calls. Here, we have another, perhaps cleverer, way of reducing an advantage. Advantages would remain. The possibility of gaining possession when the opposition knocks-on etc., plus having the head, etc. Perhaps an audit of the reasons for scrums might find the reduction in the advantage requires some offences to be converted to penalties. Yet the upside promises more contestability, more consumer clarity, and more focus on the very odd beast that is the heart of the game of rugby.
Wrecked 'em
Roar Rookie
This is one of the more unfortunate, inaccurate and ignorant comments I’ve ever seen.
Wrecked 'em
Roar Rookie
I’ve watched plenty of games with several highly regarded & experienced neutral former front rowers and many times even they can’t agree.
Wrecked 'em
Roar Rookie
No. Listen to the podcast.
LBJ
Roar Rookie
Very poor suggestion - It would remove entirely the penalty for an infringement. Which is to lose possession. If you fumble the ball or are unable to secure possession, the other team gets an advantage by coordinating the scrum - it's one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.
Rugbytrylover
Roar Rookie
The scrum is more often than not a penalty. Ball at lock’s feet should always be played and not a referee awarding a penalty. Killing the game.
savant
Roar Rookie
Agree that we used to be penalized for not putting the ball in straight and the hooker had to hook in the 70s. But I don’t think we had as much pressure applied then at the hit as now. They’ve now come up with a brake foot rule because of the pressure which makes it even harder to hook.
Objective Observer
Roar Rookie
The Refs struggle to get what they do now right. It shows the mentality of a Ref - I should be centre of attention more often. No, we would rather hardly see you all game, we come to watch Rugby not Referees.
Objective Observer
Roar Rookie
We can have “hawk eye” predictions of scrums. Devices would quickly get rid of the games.
savant
Roar Rookie
That’s how scrums used to be a lot of the time in the 70s. There was still a hit but less of a full pack shove. That happened after the ball was in and had been hooked.
Ben Pobjie
Expert
I don’t think so. The team with the feed has an advantage as things stand right now. So the scrum I’m describing is a union scrum.
Red Rob
Roar Rookie
We serve, my liege