'It wasn't discussed': All Blacks to keep selection ban on overseas based players, even as more head abroad

Agree that Tuivasa-Sheck didn't adapt to union well. I was surprised that he get dropped early on in the Super Rugby season last year. I thought MacDonald was a more intelligent coach than that; apparently the Blues sponsors really wanted Tuivasa-Sheck to play. I was surprised that Christie got picked as the backup in the important games at RWC 2023. Roigard showed in Twickenham that he can make a try out of nothing, and is a real running threat.

McKenzie isn’t a good 10. He’s a much better 15. BB struggled at 10 for the Blues because he had Christie inside him with poor passing and RTS outside him who was lost and didn’t know what to do. DC would have struggled in that setup

Still pretty difficult to prove that a discussion was never had. “Shall we change our policy?” “No” is still a discussion. :laughing: Seriously though, I reckon what they have is perfect. Currently new talent seldom gets frustrated by the way ahead being blocked by incumbents because the incumbents eventually, inevitably, head overseas to the big money. And ex-All Blacks look more attractive (and command higher prices) than never-weres. So youth redoubles its efforts to get into the All Blacks because that’s the path to the big money, and the All Blacks retain their mana. And it’s that that’s most pivotal to their success. It was a crying shame when Carl Hayman, best tighthead prop in the world at the time, headed off overseas. But the ABs weathered that, as they will weather all departures, as long as they remain the conduit for talented new players to head through. I hear the question, how does NZ at a piddly 5 million expect to compete with the Japans and UKs of the world? Well, how do you think they compete at the moment? The day there is no more quality talent coming through is the day rugby is done in NZ and we all switch to tiddlywinks, and you get to win back your house. :laughing: :laughing:

Hopefully someone steps up. McKenzie, at the moment, is a lesser version of Mo’unga; he’s young enough to still improve. B Barrett struggled at 10 for the Blues; he’s acceleration, pace, agility isn’t the same as it used to be. Burke will be injured for the first part of the season. Perofeta will have lots of game time. That no one was a real challenger for Mo’unga at RWC 2023 shows the gap between him and the rest. The contenders will have to step up in 2024. I hope they do.

For all the good play he does Mo'unga also makes a lot of mistakes at times. I don't think he'll be missed that much and I'm sure that another player will step up

:laughing: :laughing: ...Ok got me there ..But let me put a time on it ..Before the end of 2024 ...Or if ABs take a few losses early on ..Then even sooner ......But you cannot halt the inevitable ....The game is becoming increasingly concentrated at least at club level in Europe and Japan and SH countries increasingly just cannot hope to match the salaries ....Also despite the removal of restrictions by South Africa strangely the player exodus which still continues by the way has become far more balanced with as many stars returning as those that are leaving . The decisions players must now make are only based on family , finances , adventure with no fear of being excluded or even disfavoured from Bok selection whatever they choose ...Its called the free market and it always wins out in the end ....

How long is "eventually"? As long as you want it to be to keep your house safe? :P

May not be bothered to discuss it now but I will bet my house they will eventually end up having that debate .....

It will happen - matter of when not if. Given the size of economies of the likes of Japan and France - hard to see in the long term how NZ - a country of 5 million can compete. Mo'unga's contract was reported to be in the range of 2 million per year for 3 years. 6 odd million for playing half the games, little travel away from home and setting yourself up for life. What happens when the next contract goes up to 3 or 4 million for a key AB? NZ Rugby is very much capped on income vs the likes of Japan and France - who given population can only grow the game and accordingly income and thus ability to pay higher wages. Lester F at age 23 is hopefully not what is going to become a common occurance and more just another situation like Charles Piutau - but I have my doubts, it's just when and not if.

I think good on NZR, the policy works for them. For RA, I'm very concerned about the comments that they are thinking of reinstating restrictions on overseas selection. Our jersey doesn't have the same draw on players and we are not good enough to ignore so many of our best. We've missed out on the best years of guys like Kerevi and Skelton, it's a travesty that they haven't been allowed to play more at the highest level.

Perhaps more importantly in his media interview NZ Rugby CEO made the following two statements: “We always consider the importance of Australia strategically to us, meaning we had to work really hard at that relationship, and that will continue to be the case, and was the case over the last few years. It’s no secret there were some challenges amongst that, but we’re really looking forward here and see an opportunity ... we’ve always had friends in Australian rugby, and we’ll continue to do so going forward.” Meaning, Australia is important to us. ”We’re all in a space where we want the game to grow. Anyone in leadership of rugby has a fundamental duty to want it to grow. If that’s our starting point, what has to happen to make that happen at the professional level? That’s greater tempo, greater spectacles, less interventions, and help simplify the game where we can.” Meaning, we know the game has to improve and needs to be more "fan-centric"

There was never going to be much impetus for change in the system after being a hair away from another wc win was there

They could extend the Super Rugby season by having a finals series with Japan Rugby League. Top six from each play off. They could introduce a second tier e.g. teams seven to 12.

Agreed JD but Razor also, needs to get that message.....do that and everyone will, move on. IFTS above is on point when he suggests " if this coaching team can’t take the talent in NZ and bring it on then they don’t deserve to be there".

Super rugby needs to significantly improve and the season needs to be longer. It needs to be the premier league in the world again and needs to be the main focus for all countries involved. Oz needs to follow the lead and have a centralisation model for their teams.

It would be interesting to see how much the NZRU offered Mo'unga.

Agree. This is the right, long term, call. Too many players have already gone overseas. The critical mass of players, to keep the quality is high and produce adequate pressure to perform, is arguably already too low. If All Blacks can be picked from overseas (outside of sabbaticals), then a number of the better player will go overseas, the critical mass will reduce further. The only player that is really hard to replace out of the latest graduating class is Mo’unga. It’s sad as he was really making the 10 jersey his own. But the All Blacks coaches never really committed to Mo’unga. Foster only really gave Mo’unga a decent shot at 10 when Foster was about to be fired. Maybe if Foster has installed Mo’unga at 10 in 2020 Mo’unga would’ve returned the loyalty?

It's a balancing act, an art rather than science whens to comes to picking squads with new talent and experience. You need some older heads to stick around but I think that a renewal every few years is important for the health of the first class game in NZ. Choose wisely which of the older players to throw good money at and let the rest go and wish them the best in their earnings.

Surely by now everyone should have got the message on this one. Time to move on.

I’m with the NZRFU here. I think the AB success is built off the development of the players and coaches coming through the pathways in NZ and there is no need to change that. While there are some good players who have left, some would probably not have been picked if they stayed in NZ anyway and none of them are so crucial that they are irreplaceable. Next year may be a bit slow as the new players bed in, but if this coaching team can’t take the talent in NZ and bring it on then they don’t deserve to be there.