Hazlewood rips Windies apart but Head gets nod for top honour as Aussies extend home unbeaten streak to 14

And this is the issue and why I feel they're a 'lost cause'. We can criticise Pakistan, and I'm happy to do so, but they have more chance of putting out their best team in a test fixture year on year. Yes Haris opted for the BBL, but so what - he's played one test ever and he's thirty; he's hardly a serious loss for the squad. What was sad for them was that Shah was injured. The Afridi thing is also over blown, he's been made their T20I captain, of course he was going to rest from a dead rubber (in a series he wasn't playing well in anyway). In other words, Pakistan put out their best team and will continue to do so. Tempo also made a valid point about how poor Pakistan have been as tourists here as well and I agree with him. But there are still several reasons why they're a far better sell to the fans than the Windies. The first reason is they have, at least to some degree, some stars. Azam and Afridi are cricket stars, they might not be on the Kohli and Smith level of stardom, but they are stars. You can't say the same for the Windies. The second reason is that Pakistan has been a force in the format in the last decade. Again Tempo makes valid points about the Windies beating England at home and Bangladesh on the road. But Pakistan have been a force in the UAE and at home and have also won on the road before. It wasn't that long ago that Misbah took the Pakistani team to the number one test ranking; the Windies haven't been anywhere near there since the '90s. The other thing is a bit more controversial, but in short, Pakistan should have won games here in the last twenty five years. There have been several losses that are questionable at best for obvious reasons. For all these reasons you just feel the Windies aren't a viable team. But to be clear, I won't more test cricket, not less, so if we can keep them afloat and competitive, then that's a good thing. I just think we should be focusing limited resources on the places with the best chance of flourishing and for me, there are several nations ahead of the Windies (RSA, Pak and NZ).

No one is kidding themselves, but I would argue that the standard at the top end of Test cricket is stronger now.

I missed the entire test match due to foolishly working in January :crying: Maybe schedule Adelaide tests to commence on Fri/Sat in the future?

Of course, but we need to stop kidding ourselves. Like a drawn series in England is a victory (hey, we retained the Ashes!).

No one will be surprised by this game finishing as early as it did. Well done to Head and Hazo for great games.

Lesser players against lesser teams? Or a sentimental team of players who could or would or should have played more tests like Maxwell and Neser and Sayers and Dwarshius. And pick more home town players in their home tests. Makes it more competitive and sentimental, yet lesser.

My point about England is simply to say that even though they may be bad at present, they can be good again, because they have been so in living memory. We simply can’t say the same for the Windies, this isn’t a temporary thing, they’ve been in decline for 30 years. Alright, then what about Pakistan who haven't won a test in Australia for even longer than the West Indies? Or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh who have never won a test in Australia? Why the double standards? The West Indies have had better results than Bangladesh in test cricket over the past two WTC cycles, and I would venture did far better in this test match than Bangladesh would have done in these conditions. My point is that with a little assistance from richer nations, the West Indies will have the resources to maintain a decent enough test team, even if they are never going to return to their previous heights.

They've just produced a great debutant in Shamar Joseph who says his dream was to represent West Indies in red ball cricket. Should we be giving up on them when there is still good talent coming through or is it worth seeing if there are initiatives like equal match payments across all nations (subsidised by the "Big 3") to allow players who want to play test cricket to prioritise it? In his last 13 tests Jason Holder has averaged 19 with the bat and 47 with the ball. He was a great performer at his peak but I'm not sure the West Indies are missing him too much on recent form. I think you are being overly negative about the West Indies. They need more support to be sure, but there seems to be enough talent and interest in test cricket amongst the playing group to sustain a middling test team which can be competitive in the right conditions - if that support is given. And Cricket Australia is at least making the right noises in that direction - I hope they follow through and convince the ECB and BCCI to do the same.

hey selected a guy that averages 27 with the bat, and 22 with ball, purely because of his batting ability. If you look at what they have to pick from, it makes sense. There simply aren't alternatives, unless they go back to the tried and failed batsmen.

My point about England is simply to say that even though they may be bad at present, they can be good again, because they have been so in living memory. We simply can't say the same for the Windies, this isn't a temporary thing, they've been in decline for 30 years. On your other point, I think you’ve misunderstood me. I’m not saying they have Steve Smiths or Travis Heads hiding in their 4 day comp, but some of these guys can probably average mid-30s in test cricket like Brathwaite. Except the evidence is that this doesn't eventuate, see Blackwood as case in point. Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on the major point, that they're a lost cause. I just can't see how they have the resources to turn it around, which at least other countries do. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'd love for these guys go on, I'd love to see Joseph take 300 test wickets. But I reckon he won't even take 100...

Yep, silly me, they selected a guy that averages 27 with the bat, and 22 with ball, purely because of his batting ability. The West Indian selectors would no doubt say that he would be there even if he did not bowl at all. :laughing:

There are some significant differences though: 1. England have won a test in Australia this millennium, something the Windies haven’t and honestly won’t do; Not really relevant for an assessment of current performance. England didn't beat this current Australian team. They have a 13-0 record in their last three series. 2. The English, like England and Pakistan, bring their best players and their best team; Agree the absences are not ideal but I'm not sure Holder and Mayers would have made this team much stronger given their performances last time around (and in 2015/16 for Holder too). Your statement isn't even true because Haris Rauf chose to play for the Melbourne Stars instead of Pakistan and Shaheen sat out the third test to freshen up for the T20 series against NZ. 3. The English, the Indians, the Pakistanis and others can take these games deep, four, five days, two full innings etc. Honestly, we’re praising the West Indians for only losing by 10 wickets. We wouldn’t praise those other teams, we’d bemoan them because we all know this was a good performance by the Windies, whilst other teams losing that bad are bad performances. Again not true. The two tests against the West Indies last year ended on Day 5 and Day 4. This was a tough surface which the Australians couldn't manage 300 on. Pakistan made it to Day 4 in all their tests this summer but didn't manage a fifth day. South Africa managed 2 days, 4 days (in an innings loss) and a severely rain affected draw after following on last year. England lost in 3 days twice during the last Ashes, on the fourth day once and only managed a first innings deficit of under 100 once (in a match they lost by an innings). On your other point, I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying they have Steve Smiths or Travis Heads hiding in their 4 day comp, but some of these guys can probably average mid-30s in test cricket like Brathwaite. That's not good by Australian standards but would make you a first-choice pick for a team like South Africa. Again, all I'm arguing against is your contention that the Windies are a lost cause. I'm not saying they are world beaters.

At seven sure, but they don't bat at six "all the time". If you have a strong batting line up and your keeping can bat a bit, sure play five bowlers and put your bowling all rounder at seven. But six is a position for batsmen. If you go into a game of cricket with only five batsmen, you're generally up against it, seriously up against it. Da Silva is a decent cricketer, but he averages under 30 at test level, he's not a top six bat. The Windies need six batsmen and they clearly selected him to be a batsmen, it just so happens he seems good with the ball.

The West Indies are still producing talent, but it's keeping a group of talented cricketers together for an extended period as a Test side which is going to be problematic for them.

Good grief. The sad sackery around this joint proliferates exponentially.

Sadly for West Indies, I think Test cricket is simply becoming the entry point for players to get name recognition such that they may then get a gig in a T20 league. Hard to see this "nucleus" of the current Windies Test team being together in 4 years time.

And why should they ? They do the hard yards against India & England, they should get the rewards against lesser teams. That’s the essence of being a professional cricketer, you have your tough opponents who make you earn every run or wicket you get, it’s balanced out by easier opponents who give you the chance to fill your boots.

“His FC bowling average is 22.91” So worse than Greaves’ then? Dude, bowling all-rounders batting at six or seven happens all the time, not in Australian teams but other test teams do it occasionally, it happens all the time in the Shield.

I just can't agree Tempo. The issue is that the guys who got those results have either retired or retired from the national set up (effectively). And it's an issue that gets worse very year. There won't be another Roach or Holder, it's simply impossible to see them retaining players of even that ability. Look at how Pooran plays essentially no red ball cricket and will never don the whites. Look at how Russell played a solitary test. Even Holder is gone now, their best performer for years. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, I grew up thinking the Windies were amazing and test cricket needs more strong nations. I just can't see it being the Windies and I think CA would be better served making sure South Africa rebounds and inviting Bangladesh over more often.

You think these current bowlers will give up those cheap wickets? Don't think so!