Red carding Waratah Jed Holloway was rubbish rugby

I respectfully disagree. It was a clean, tactical, brutal, ethically-sourced hit. It would have been on any game’s highlight reel

Old mate from the Sharks didn't even have an HIA so was some superb acting. Still, laws are clear today. Intent doesn't matter if you clock someone in the head!

Yes we are, sorry if I put you in with the hypocrites.

I don't think I was part of that but I take your point. Players should be judged on the same criteria. My point is that you can't pin the outcome solely on the FH, esp when a team has been absolutely bashed up front. In a sense we're agreeing

The Tahs pack must've been doing something right because at one stage I saw the possession was something like 80% to the Tahs in 2nd half. But the point was if the opposing side had a glut of possession the defending flyhalf is always going to not stand out/ go missing - you guys pillared Quade for it but not Foley when it occurred with him?

But the rebels were playing the tahs who dont have a pack?

No, I seriously think he might be 13.

That's always been the issue with this debate, the two of them are held to different standards. I get they we all bring our own preconceived bias into the discussion but what annoys me (particularly now that I live abroad and am looking in at Aus rugby) is that the limited media coverage the game gets is so incredibly biased in there assessment of the two players. The FOX team and ex-Wallabies are as to blame as anyone just keep pushing this narrative the at Foley is Mr Reliable when it couldn't be further from the truth. I have never ever seen anyone provide a counter argument so it goes unchallenged and then assumed that Foley is an outstanding performer at 10.

Another week, another series of excuses for Super Rugby’s serial underachievers, the Waratahs. With the teams that this mob have put on the paddock for the last 23 years, they should have won considerably more than one title. That they haven’t smacks of a poor culture, a misguided sense of entitlement, and ego problems. That being said, this article, and the nutterances of Kearns and the various Sydney Rugby journos certainly would not help. Illegal play is just that, and rugby has mandatory penalties to cover most instances. Perhaps Mr. Lord would like to adopt the NRL model, where referees seem to make it up as they go along; of course this would only apply to the Waratahs.

I think Hodge has to pick a single position and play there consistently. Being a jack-of-all-trades utility player will get you a place in the WRC squad, but not a place in the starting 15. I think he has the skills, size and speed to make any of the 10, 12, 13 or 15 jerseys his own, but only if he plays there all the time and learns the intracies of the position.

Wasn't the play just before the elbow a maul? If you can't grab soneone's shirt in a maul, how do you bind? Du Toit had his head down, so may not have immediately known Holloway had disengaged and was trying to chase the kick. All Holloway had to do was run a couple of steps away from the maul and either: a) Du Toit would have had to let him go, or b) the AR/ref/TMO would see Du Toit holding Holloway's jersey and Holloway could have 'milked it', thereby ensuring a penalty for the Tahs.

David, Every once in a while you write a great informative objective article on the beautiful game that is Rugby..... Unfortunately, this is not one of them. Any points you have scored with me have been wiped clean off the slate. Start again.

The red was deserved but I'd just about have elevated the Sharks bloke to a red as well for bringing the game into disrepute with his nancy boy dive and roll.

This is of course the truth. The Waratahs have no one who can consistently get them going forward, and until they do it doesn't matter who stands out in the backs, they're going to struggle to go anywhere in attack.

Yep, I hear ya Fred. It was more tongue and check. But what I will say is I 100% agree with you re commentators and the over-paid/under preforming players. It’s a crappy situation you guys are in, with no clear path to resolution. Accountability is the solution as you have said, but, it’s a big ask for the people in power to hold themselves accountable, administrative and playing group alike. Maybe Revolution......

Yeh, thanks Bluffboy. A pretty good start I think. There has to be some form of instrument that measures role specific skills and general playing skills, rather than the few generic phrases in use now like 'meters gained' or turnovers etc I know we're talking about a level of analysis and application that a lot of fans have no interest in, but there's got to be some discussion somewhere about players doing what their supposedly paid to do, and not doing stuff that causes the team to lose possession/field position that contributes to points getting scored against them by the conclusion of 80 minutes. The general level of rugby commentating out there is so pathetic and dumb on the one hand, and sugar-coated on the other. Personally, I don't want to be throwing spears at the game, but it seems to me that it is rare that someone in the rugby media speaks with brutally honesty and clarity about performances, and being able to back it up with actual instances of the good, the bad and the ugly. The longer Oz rugby performances are permitted to pull the wool over their own eyes without being brutally accountable, then this rubbish we're getting served up will continue; which isn't the refs fault! The Waratahs, for all of their alleged quality in their roster, are almost unwatchable in my eyes; yet if you look at the chummy exuberances between players that explodes instantaneously when something good or stupid is committed, you'd be mistaken for believing this side plays winning champagne rugby every week, features in the finals every year, and has a trophy cupboard filled with silverware. There is a very large disconnect between what the players/coach are delivering etc, and what the rugby fans see. This is what led to my thought bubble of a rugby merit/demerit performance system, and how this maybe could bridge the reality gap between the players and the fans - while there are still some in the stands!

Wrong. It is always theplayer retaliating who cops the biggest serve from the referee as this is what he sees NOT the lead up. Always been the case and probably always will be.

Now there is a self-motivating concept. Player payments. Start with a standard base rate or retainer. Plus Tries. Try assists. Line Breaks. Running Meters Gained. Off loads. Affective Attacking Kicks (Meters Gained). Position from Kicks. Ball and all Tackles. First up Tackles. Covering Tackles. Turnovers. Lineout Won on own throw. Lineout win on opp throw. Tightheads. Scrum Meters gained. Maul Meters Gained. Minus. Dropped balls. Forward Pass. Meters run sideways. Scrum Penalties. Scrum Meters lost. Throws not straight at the Lineout. Not taking it Clean in the Lineout. Aimless kicks leading to meters Lost. Kicking out on the Full turning over position. Not kicking out on the Full for a Penalty. Set Shot kicks for Goal. Tackles Missed. Meters Lost in a defensive Tackle. Maul Meters Lost. I’m sure there is plenty more, but I reckon that would tidy up a few skills.......

Jersey pulling you say .. goodness.

Fox, re the number of All Blacks in the Crusaders team. The majority have been created by the Canterbury system. They must have intelligent and rugby savy people running rugby. please how could we get some just like that ?