Will there ever be another Aussie dual code international?

By Tony / Roar Guru

When rugby league in Australia split from rugby union in 1908, it took with it some of union’s greatest players, including ten union Test players who then turned out in Tests for the Kangaroos in the first year.

The most famous of these was, of course, Dally Messenger, who despite a surprisingly brief playing career, was pivotal in getting the game of rugby league up and running in Australia. These ten players became the first of Australia’s dual rugby internationals i.e. players who represented Australia in both league and union.

Google lists a total of 48 players who have now achieved this feat, although closer inspection reveals that Trevor Allan should be excluded, as he represented “Other Nationalities” in league Tests rather than Australia.

So 47 it is. There are some famous names on this list, including Rex Mossop, Arthur Summons, Dick Thornett, Mike Cleary, Michael O’Connor and Ricky Stuart.

This article doesn’t deal with former Kangaroos like Brad Thorn and Craig Gower, who went on to represent New Zealand and Italy in rugby union.

Only 16 players have reached Australian dual international status since 1960, and of these only two have been forwards, the legendary Ray Price, and the less well known Scott Gourley, who just makes the list courtesy of his one game for the Kangaroos against Papua New Guinea.

Interestingly, the first 40 dual internationals came from union to league, while the last seven have made the transition the other way, from league to union. These seven players were Andrew Walker, Wendell Sailor, Matt Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, Timana Tahu, Israel Folau and Karmichael Hunt, who was the last dual international in 2017.

Karmichael Hunt (Photo by Chris Hyde/Getty Images)

In the early days the traffic from union to league, and the resultant dual international status, was primarily driven by the desire to be paid for playing football. Not everyone could afford to devote their time and energy for the scarce rewards of the amateur game.

With the end of “shamateurism”, and the advent of Super Rugby, this financial incentive to switch codes ended for union players, who could not only now command lucrative playing contracts in union, but also had increasing playing opportunities across the world, in places like South Africa, France, South America and Japan.

League and union were also far more similar games back then e.g. with contested scrums, and players in both codes had comparable body shapes, which made transition from one sport to the other relatively easy.

These days, roles in both league and union are far more specialised, and unique to their code, particularly in the forwards. For example, the league’s best hooker, Cameron Smith, would be lucky to survive one game of union; and union second rower Rob Simmons would struggle with the requirements of playing an edge forward role for 80 minutes in league.

Body shapes too are different, again particularly in the forwards. Union second rowers are all approaching two metres tall, while this is now apparently the desired height for a league winger, and league front rowers are now some 20Kg lighter than their union counterparts, as they no longer need to push in, or even enter, a scrum.

And then there’s the game itself, with often vastly different skill sets required by players in each code playing in nominally the same position.

For example, a union hooker is required to win possession in the scrum and take a lot of physical punishment in the rucks and mauls, while the relatively lightweight league hookers like Harry Grant and Damien Cook need the passing game of a union half back and the ability to run the ball. For them, winning the ball in the scrum is a distant memory.

So will there ever be another Australian dual international, and if so, who is likely?

Given the one way traffic from league to union this century, at least at the international player level, it’s hard to envisage a scenario where an Australian union international would move to league, and then be successful enough to make the Kangaroo team.

This is particularly the case given the financial rewards now available in union at the elite level, and the lucrative club rugby contracts available in places like France and Japan, for international players on the downward slide and heading to retirement.

Israel Folau . (Photo: Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images)

It is more likely that the trend of the last 20 years continues, and league internationals transition to union, and make the grade as Wallabies. Once making it to the top in league in Australia, there aren’t many more mountains to climb, and the downhill slide via say English Super League is not everyone’s cup of tea, and not particularly financially rewarding.

If an attractive rugby contract was on offer, and say a Rugby World Cup was just around the corner, a player could be tempted, particularly if they were relatively young and, while in the past having been selected as a Kangaroo, were now only considered a fringe selection forward candidate going forward.

For example, Valentine Holmes, a talented outside back who is only 25 years of age, has represented Australia on 13 occasions, but may struggle to be selected for Australia in the future. You couldn’t rule out a player like him switching to rugby and going on to represent the Wallabies.

Valentine Holmes and David Klemmer of the Kangaroos could change to become Wallabies. (Photo by Mark Kolbe/Getty Images)

But not all league players would make suitable union converts. For the reasons discussed above, most would neither have the body shape nor the experience and specialist skills to be successful in union. The most likely successful converts, using recent history as a guide, would either be league outside backs or edge forwards, who play a similar role to each other.

League wingers, fullbacks and centres have a good track record of making the grade in union, and the recent success of forwards from other countries like Sam Burgess, Ben Teo and Sonny Bill Williams, in transitioning from league backrowers to union centres, may provide opportunities for some forwards. I can’t see any candidates making it from any other position.

It’s been three years since the last dual international was capped, and four years and five years respectively before that for Israel Folau and Timana Tahu to join the exclusive club. At this rate we shouldn’t expect the list to grow too quickly, but I’m sure we haven’t seen the last Kangaroo morph into a Wallaby.

The Crowd Says:

2020-10-20T21:59:15+00:00

sheek

Roar Guru


Barry, You can be lucky or unlucky transferring from rugby union to league & aspiring to be a dual international. In 1974, two Wallabies in Russell Fairfax & Geoff Richardson transferred from rugby union to league. Richardson immediately became a dual international, playing the first two tests against the British Lions. The selectors decided to play Bob Fulton in the centres (Geoff Starling had taken ill) & Tim Pickup was either injured or unwanted. Richo was a fine player, but Fairfax was much more talented & dynamic. While Fairfax represented NSW, that was as far as he got. He had the hottest opposition for a test jersey in Graeme Langlands, Graham Eadie, Allan McMahon, John Dorahy & Garry Dowling.

2020-10-20T21:51:54+00:00

sheek

Roar Guru


Barry, If you're the Barry Beath that played for St.George in the 60s & 70s, you weren't a bad player yourself. Toured NZ twice I think, 1965 & 71, without playing a test. Enjoyable read.

2020-10-17T19:36:38+00:00

Adam Bagnall

Roar Guru


— COMMENT DELETED —

2020-10-17T06:43:54+00:00

Brainstrust

Roar Rookie


Rugby league doesn't have the same talent any more to make a huge difference to the Wallabies that they used to have. Cooper Cronk would have been a game changer for the Wallabies, Thurston the same, Billy Slater the same. Cameron Smith not suited but would still be better than 9's the Wallabies have had. Its one thing to have the most money but when you have no brain to use it to recruit the best and instead recruit some unsuited players like Folau, SBW and Burgess and pay them massive amounts . Rugby league taking SBW back is even worse you could have bought any rugby union player for the 10 million a year offered by Toronto.

2020-10-17T03:37:25+00:00

Sammy

Guest


Copper Cronk would be a Union Fly Half (10) while Cameron Smith would play Scrum Half (9).

2020-10-16T03:44:50+00:00

Rob9

Roar Guru


Chambers couldn’t hold a starting spot in the Reds. Starting only 6 of 18 games in their championship season (hence sitting on the bench in the GF and staying there till FT). Rewind and he started in Melbourne’s GF win of 09. Fast-forward and he was let go by the Reds in 2012. There is nothing about his form in Rugby that suggests he would have gone on to become a Wallaby. Tahu played all 3 games for NSW in 06 before announcing at the start of the 07 NRL season that he’d be making the switch to rugby at the end of the season- is it really any great surprise that he wasn’t picked for the 07’s series? In that same season he was nominated alongside another 3 players for Centre of the Year. He can’t have been playing that bad. After struggling to transfer his undeniable talents with the Tahs and struggling through 4 (many thought undeserved) Wallaby caps, he dropped out of his contract 2 years early. He was parachuted straight back into the Blues team in 2010, playing 1 game of the series and would have played the whole series if he didn’t withdraw due to Joey’s slur. The last half of Benji’s career has been hot and cold. There were periods in the lead up to him leaving for the Blues that he was hot, as there have been since his return. One things for sure, his full tenure in rugby was cold. Burgess played in England’s worst ever RWC campaign and many argued he didn’t deserve his spot.

2020-10-16T02:45:12+00:00

soapit

Roar Guru


A few things there - the increase in wage compared to their experience level is at least partly to do with marketability. Simple comparison of on field achievements isn't really appropriate. - has there actually been any comparison of union originals salaries/achievements attempted (even ignoring the above) to gauge where they sit? - chambers won a Super Rugby title and would have little been a Wallaby of he stuck around . He hadn't played origin by that stage. Tahu wasn't in the origin team when he came over. He went on to be a Wallaby. Benji was struggling for an NRL contract and accordingly struggled in rugby (tho was badly managed). Burgess played in a world cup and left. I'd say a reasonable impacts for the most part for a realistic informed expectation.

2020-10-16T02:10:26+00:00

Censored Often

Roar Rookie


No forward anyway, perhaps a hard running centre if they can improve their one on one tackling skills.

2020-10-16T02:08:56+00:00

Censored Often

Roar Rookie


Had is day in court, found not guilty with the magistrate branding his ex partner a somewhat "gold digger". Hopefully he will come back to one of the egg ball codes in the future.

2020-10-16T01:10:26+00:00

Armchair Halfback

Roar Rookie


Absolutely. The only Australian prop I can think of who went to NRL was Tony D'Arcy back in the 1980's, he wouldn't had the ball handling skills of Tupou for instance, and his really skill was scrummaging which was wasted in NRL. Apparently D'Arcy did his postgrad thesis on the mechanics of scrummaging!

2020-10-16T00:58:46+00:00

Broken Shoulder

Roar Rookie


Radradra is such a beast

2020-10-16T00:47:20+00:00

Red Rob

Roar Rookie


With a smoke in his hand no doubt!

AUTHOR

2020-10-15T23:57:57+00:00

Tony

Roar Guru


I guess if you don't blow a penalty when required you don't have a stoppage

2020-10-15T23:57:43+00:00

Nat

Roar Rookie


Is that figure right? How can they run even a 5 team comp on that money? IMO they should choose Ch9 to expose the people to the game again. Putting any game soley on PayTV kills it as (I believe) up to 30% of Aussies have PayTV and only a small % again have it for their sport (whatever code). Sponsors are not going to pay much for that sort of coverage. At least on FTA they will pick up the casual viewer not wanting to watch a Sat night 80s special.

2020-10-15T23:43:02+00:00

Gus

Roar Rookie


Funnily enough its down to Channel 9/Stan for about $30m a year and Foxtel for $35-40m. I think the plan for 9 is to show the Saturday game as they dont have the NRL games. Hoping they go with 9 over Fox.

AUTHOR

2020-10-15T23:41:44+00:00

Tony

Roar Guru


Hi Terry " No" for Fairfax and "yes" for Hawthorne, who actually captained Australia in one test. He was a great player and could kick field goals with either foot.

2020-10-15T23:23:25+00:00

terrykidd

Roar Pro


That should be Phil Hawthorne

2020-10-15T23:20:03+00:00

Mango Jack

Roar Guru


Matt Dunning would have struggled!

2020-10-15T23:15:11+00:00

terrykidd

Roar Pro


Was Ken Hawthorne not also a dual international ?? Also Russell Fairfax ??

2020-10-15T22:58:31+00:00

Armchair Halfback

Roar Rookie


Semi Radrada is precisely that and is now the best rugby centre on the planet atm. He's got a big game this weekend for Bristol again the Toulon mercenaries.... Go Bristol!!!

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