Waratahs make no excuses for shock loss

Most accurate comment I’ve read in this thread

Thanks for providing your source Terry :) You get no apology but I'll advise you about making wrong and simplistic conclusions from dubious statistics. Let's assume these Fox Sports stats are actually correct (and I don't). Fox Sports provides no info on how they were collected or by whom. But anyway .... you said above that Hooper, Hanigan and Simmons were "the three most productive forwards for the Tahs". Ok, the most productive when? And what does productive mean? - there's no Fox Sports stat for "productivity" I made no comment about Hooper's form so let's look at Simmons and Hanigan. There is a season long stat for "runs" and "run metres". For those Simmons has 24 runs in 5 games and made 98m. Hanigan has 30 runs in 5 games for 152m. That's an average of 4 and 5m per run. And how are those metres calculated - from receiving the ball until tackled or are these metres gained over the advantage line? Let's look at tackles. Simmons has 0 tackles busts, 57 tackles made and 5 missed tackles. Hanigan has 5 , 55 and 5. But this tells us nothing tackle quality. My comment is that their tackling is soft and passive plus they've both got a 10% miss rate having only played against one NZ team so far. Penalties conceded are 4 and 6 for each player. Turnovers are 6 and 3. Offloads are 3 and 0. Handling errors 5 and 1. These are not impressive numbers but they tell us nothing about impact or productivity or the quality of performance.

Yeah for sure. But if I'm the Waratahs I'd pop him at 11. He definitely shouldn't be at 12 ahead of Hunt

Waxhead try Foxsports Lab .... go have a look you might have to apologize to Hanigan and Simmons.

Terry – where do you get these alleged stats from ? You should watch the games more closely. After scoring a good supporting try Phipps was a total liability – again. He fumbled twice, kicked out on full before half time break, threw 5 bad passes and missed a few tackles. He gets to the breakdown fast but his pass delivery is very slow and inaccurate. Typical Phipps display. Hooper was good but not great and he again failed to inspire his team mates into lifting their game. He didn’t try to assist or support Mason after a few errors. Hooper is a good player but lacks leadership skills. Hanigan and Simmons were again soft – passive in both defence and attack and easily pushed aside at the breakdown.

They need to call Deegan

PM - I agree but K Beale is too slow for wing now. He's slowed up which is another reason why his attacking skills have declined. Plus Aust now has Maddocks, Banks, Folau, Hodge who are all much better wing options.

I cannot let you get away with "Simmons, Hanigan had little impact". Everyone sees things differently but if you check the stats you will find that Hooper, Simmons and Hanigan were the three most productive forwards for the Tahs. People who had little impact were Hunt, Kepu, Mason and Beale. Phipps was ok, got to the rucks quickly and gave good service, not his fault others stuffed it up. Folau was ok in first half but faded out in the second where the ball did not get to him cos it was dropped or it was kicked away. Newsome and Clarke did ok with few opportunities. Wells was hardly seen at 8. The Tahs problem was they lacked enthusiasm, like it was a "go thru the motions and we will win game". There was no line speed in defence, thus no pressure on the Sunwolves attack. They continually kicked the ball away even though there was no consistent chase, except for Newsome and Clarke.

sure - but cant someone tell him not to be such a wimp? i mean seriously - even the poms will be ashamed of the way he winged all the time!!! it so funny how the gallagher commentators sound detached most of the time...

I'm a Newcastle resident and past rugby coach there. Newcastle is a League city and rugby has been in a poor state there for many years and continuing to slide. Soccer is more popular in Newc than Rugby now. The standard of play in the local rugby comp (1st grade) is poor in Newc and about equal with subbies in Sydney imo. Coaching and referring standards are even worse. If they even got 8,000 people at this Super game I'm surprised. Didn't look like it on TV. If NSW Rugby and RA want to resurrect Rugby in Newc it's going to take some serious commitment over 10 yrs. Including large financial and marketing assistance to local clubs, school programs and many promotions with Waratah and Test games against higher quality opponents than the Sunwolves.

There are better, more astute commentators available. The problem is that it is an old boy's club full of former players that are given the job. And most of the smartest, most astute former players become coaches or go into a totally different career.

Mason was terrible down at easts but everyone said this freak from qld was here. They should fast track Ben Donaldson.

He was switched on this weekend, wasn’t he? Even to the ignorant, he is of obvious quality

Maybe Dolly Parton would have been more appropriate!

Peter, “The only genuinely smart rugby player aust have is QC just because he has great vision of what WILL (not just what IS) unfolding AND then takes action” I agree with a qualification. I suspect that we have other ‘smart’ players. Hiding ATM. We have few coaches who can handle intelligent challenge. The result? Smart players are branded as ‘smart-a—ses’ as we have seen in the QC example (and Fardy and Higginbottom) Sure he said some things wiser counsel would’ve advised against eight years ago. This is ancient history for all except the unforgiving parsons amongst us. The treatment of Quade has been a signal to all to remain squeaky compliant yes men.

Couldn’t agree more Colc69. Infuriating.

I have not seen the numbers, but it wasn't good. I was there and my guess it would be have lucky to be 8,000. I was disappointed that the first super rugby game in Newcastle was against the Sunwolves and not against a SA or NZ team. Novacastrians are great sporting supporters and the number would certainly been more than double the number last night. The game result was a big disappointment but it was outweighed by the appalling concept of entertainment presented at the stadium. There was extra loud music played throughout the night. The music was stop start all night. I don't know how Mick Jagger played in 10-20 secs segments could ever inspire crowd participation in the Game or motivate a team to greater heights. I am sure Mick Jagger would be appalled to hear his songs being literally been torn apart. Intermingled with the music was some distracting commentary which gave little consideration to the players. For the half time interval we were forced to listen to the whole commercial break time of one the major TV outlets. And I mean forced, the volume was so high you could not carry on a conversation with the person next to you. The only relieving period was the inclusion of interesting relay game by the local junior rugby clubs. And to top it off, none of the Sunwolves tries were replayed on the big screen whereas the Tahs were given plenty of air time. I have been to many sporting events since my youth(mid last century), and this was far and away the worst. If this is how Rugby Australia intends to develop support I would predict the crowds are going to plummet in the years ahead. The whole program worked against crowd involvement. And Novacastians are great are giving their time 100% support when given the chance. The Tah's could have really benefited from a good noisy crowd. But instead we got a second rate DJ dominating the evening. If this is the product you are selling I want my money back!!!

Absolutely a factor TWAS. But just about every other position up front has been rotated. Seems the props and locks are close to settled with Sio, AAA, Tupou and Kepu almost universally agreed as the 4 for match-day, with Slipper now putting his hand up. Rodda and Coleman are incumbent but Lukhan and Arnold seem to be the challengers. The back row is most contentious. The Pooper just throws the whole balance out and, for me, it’s Pocock at 7 without question. Hooper unlikely to make my bench.

I agree Hooper is no captain. I was at the at the game last night and I did not hear or see a word of encouragement for young Mason. After the last Sunwolves try, the skipper should have been pushing the team at every opportunity. Hooper relies upon leading by example, which is beneficial but is unsustainable in these situations. The idea of keeping it calm and stick to getting things right is only part of the story, you have to get the team motivated to push for that extra adrenalin rush.

I've completely lost faith in Beale, even as an attacking player now. It really just looks like when he gets the ball his thoughts are just about making a few swirling, all over the shop, teammates-disrupting-if-needs-be runs, or just more or less kick and hope. To me right now the only spot for him would be at 11, where at least his bursts of speed and agility can be handy and he's not going to be making many decisions and breaking everyone else's lines.