Why a national club competition won’t work
Roar Pro
By Rhys Thompson, 24 Jun 2008 The Crowd is a Roar Pro
- Tagged:
- club rugby, Manly, Rugby Union, Super Rugby
Every year the same discussion comes up: how do we get a national rugby competition started up that will be viable, attractive to the masses, and exist as a vital development pathway for players to reach the next level?
In simple terms, it just won’t work.
Why? Am I being negative about the future of the game here? No. I’m realistic about what the rugby community will and won’t accept.
One of the great things about club rugby, at least in the major cities, is the tribalism and the stories behind the games make the games what they are.
Anyone who saw Manly vs Warringah play to a packed house at Rat Park last weekend will tell you that the atmosphere as the two teams fought for the Bayfield Cup was electric.
The problem with a national club comp is that you can’t create teams and expect there to be atmosphere, and you can’t create rivalries within two years of a competition starting.
The beauty about club rugby is that supporters can feel like they are on the field with the players, such is the passion that they have for their team.
And you can have all this for a maximum of about $10 on a Saturday afternoon.
Why would any rugby fan pay their good money to watch a team which they don’t feel really represents them, especially when they don’t know any of the players.
The administrators need to find other ways to bridge the gap between club and Super 14 football because supporters will only support what they have an affinity with, whether it be their local club, the state or their country.
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sheek said | June 24th 2008 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Well Rhys,
You make some good points. Yes, every year this same discussion (re national comp) comes up. Yes, you’re further right about what the rugby community will & won’t accept.
A good mate of mine is an old Easts stalwart. Whenever I brought up the question of a national comp in the early days of our friendship, I was shot down in flames. He simply wouldn’t contemplate it. Now I just don’t go there!
But I still believe a national comp is viable. Let me share my vision.
At the apex of the pyramid, you have the Wallabies. That’s the ultimate dream of any aspiring rugby player – to represent your country. Below the Wallabies you have a national provincial comp, which also doubles in the super comp. Now this is where it gets ‘sticky’, to use an old cricket terminology.
You can’t have a national provincial comp, & the S14 in its current format, both competing for time & space in the same season. My solution is to truncate the S14. At present the S14 runs over 16 weekends, with all teams playing a minimum of 13 matches, & the two finalists 15 matches.
Even if you expanded the S14 to S20 (Australia x 5, NZL x 5, RSA x 5, Argentina x 3, Pacific Islands & Japan, or some other variant of this), you would truncate the tournament. You would have 4 pools x 5 teams, plus semis & a final.
Consequently, the number of matches played by each team drops from 13-15 to 4-6. The number of weekends drops from 16 to 7. Even a S24 (4 pools x 6 teams plus quarters) would only add 2 extra weekends, 7 to 9. More teams, less games per team, less travel, more weekends freed up for domestic comps.
The above suggestion is followed by most major comps around the world – FIFA world cup, rugby world cup, etc – whereby not everyone plays each other. It’s practically impossible. Even in the major leagues of the USA, not everyone plays each other, sometimes never season after season.
Take the NFL. At last count, I think there 30 franchises playing in 2 conferences. The conferences are divided into 3 zones, so that’s 6 zones all up. Each zone has 5 franchises. In a season I think each team plays the others in its zone twice, & some teams from the other two zones in its conference once, for about 14 games total.
Then there’s the play-offs. The only time two conferences crossover is when the AC champion plays the NC champion in the ‘superbowl’ final. There might be variations to this, but this is the grist of it.
With the oil crisis, air travel is now a bigger concern than before. Not only is it likely to be more expensive, but even major sports can’t be flying off to all parts of the globe at whim.
Anyway, back to the Aussie model. You can have a national comp of NSW, Qld, ACT, WA & Vic. South Australia might go in a 2nd tier national comp with NSW Country, Qld Country, NT & Tasmania. 5 weekends, 4 matches each, a final between top 2, all in Sept-Oct before the outgoing end of year tour.
This is also when the Currie Cup & ANZ Cup domestic comps are held. Both RSA & NZL would be interested in peeling back the S14 to free-up more space for their domestic comps. It is important to them. With the oil crisis, there is good sense in this.
Now with the national comp in place, each state/province would be underpinned by a strong, viable premier rugby comp in each capital city. This comp would have roots right down to junior level.
As for leading players, they would look at playing 10-12 tests for the Wallabies per year; 4-6, or 5-7 super matches; 4-5 national comp matches & perhaps a maximum 12 to a minimum 6 matches for their premier rugby club.
There’s something for everyone. A minimum 6 matches for your premier rugby club might not seem much. It’s certainly not like it was in the 1980s, but it sure as hell would be better than the recent NIL matches for your local club, during the professional era.
Rhys Thompson said | June 24th 2008 @ 10:29am | Report comment
I understand what you say, sheek and you have some very good ideas, but, there is one variable you have left out, passiaonate support from the public, getting behind teams. As part of this, this model creates too many teams to support in the same sport. By your model, any one individual who is deeply interested in rugby would have 4 teams to support in the same country, those being the Wallabies, a super rugby team, a national provincial competition team, and their local club side, which most will hold closest to their hearts. Its far too many for individuals to support during one season.
Another problem, the ARC’s downfall, is the travelling and accomodation cost for the comps, especially at the lower levels where you don’t recoup nearly enough of the cost.
Years and years ago, this all may have been possible, but now with football codes battling it out for survival, rugby cannot afford relinquishing any kind of grip it has, with a possible failing competition.
Yikes said | June 24th 2008 @ 11:47am | Report comment
Yes! Another national club comp thread! Here I am, reporting for duty.
I used to be a big proponent of a national comp, and felt ARC was the way to go. Given that ARU killed it, and that it ain’t coming back, I’ve changed my mind. My solution: expand S14 to 26 weeks and keep club rugby exactly the way it is in Sydney and Brisbane.
Rugby’s biggest problem is that there is no single team that a supporter can support for the entire season beyond premiership rugby. S14 starts in summer before anyone is paying attention to it, and ends just as the schoolboy and subbies seasons are getting in the swing of things.
Increasing the S14 season would also largely eliminate the need for a “third tier”. S14 squad sizes would be slightly larger, taking care of the development of the next level. More players would get game time as the program would not be the high-pressure sprint to the finish it is now. Non-playing squad members would have to play club rugby each week (which they do currently, but there’d be more of them). Club rugby has a Jim Beam Cup-style points system introduced to keep the comp on a more even footing.
Additionally, by expanding S14 you would substantially increase the revenue to the states, providing more funds for the development of the game at grass roots levels. Everybody wins… now if we can only get SA and NZ to agree…
Wally said | June 24th 2008 @ 11:59am | Report comment
I think there is still room for it, at the Australia A game on Sunday I thought ‘this is what club rugby should be’, 6,000 or so people on a sunday arvo at a suburban ground just enjoying the rugby.
the National comp will never be massive, but just a few thousand people and a good quality game is what the sport needs in Australia.
Think of all the Super 14 players that don’t make the Wallabies, you put those guys together and you have some great players plus the blokes who are stand outs in club rugby but not quite up to Super level.
My solution to the ‘local pride’ would be to base the teams out of existing club structure; you’re Manly and Warringah, Gordon become one team, you’re Easts and Randwick etc. Yes there’s huge rivalry between Rats and Manly etc but that will still continue. Just as NSW and QLD have a great rivalry but seem to get on ok once they wear the gold jersey.
In terms of travel cost maybe they can start having the comp just in NSW and QLD and as it gets some success expand to Perth, Melbourne.
There are huge obstacles but I think rugby desperately needs it to make our non-Wallaby Super players better (Waratahs success in my opinion was helped by improvements of Norton-Knight, Burgess etc who played brilliantly in the ARC) and also give rugby fans something to go and see post-Super 14. Club rugby is good for us die hards but the next level of supporters needs to be reached.
Andrew Logan said | June 24th 2008 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
I love it – another national comp thread, same old suspects!! My only comment is that it would be nice if we could organise something which would allow Sydney based rugby fans to see some rugby at this level every week, as opposed to the gaps we have now with S14 when the Waratahs are in SA or NZ.
Any ideas?
True Tah said | June 24th 2008 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Agree with Yikes,
the game cannot support Super Rugby, the so-called middle tier and club rugby. The NZRU is having trouble funding all of its sides, All Blacks, Super Rugby and ANZ Cup.
Expanding Super rugby season is the way to go, it taps into the existing supporter base and it does not create anything new. I know that the Clubs would like to somehow be involved, but their place is in a Sydney-based comp.
I wouldn’t have sides from Japan, etc joining Super rugby, in fact, the best model is for a trans-tasman comp, which is effectively what the NRL and HAL are…I’ve spoken enough about this on another thread and it needs not be repeated here.
The ideal way to start is have existing 4 provincial sies, plus Melbourne and Western Sydney, plus NZ Sides.
Sheek, you refer to a second tier national comp – isn’t this what the Australian Rugby Shield is?
Andrew Logan said | June 24th 2008 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Sorry I should have said “capital city rugby fans” rather than “Sydney fans”. It would be good if we could all see something like this each week….a’la NRL.
sheek said | June 24th 2008 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Andrew logan,
Do I look like a usual suspect? (No, don’t answer that question – we know the answer!).
Rhys,
And what is wrong with offering the Aussie sports fan 4 different teams to follow in a season? To paraphrase Kylie – “we should be so lucky”! Actually, it works out to 3 – the Wallabies as your national team; say NSW as your super & national comp team; & say Randwick or whoever as your premier rugby team.
This is how its operated in NZL & RSA for over a century, & it doesn’t appear to have done them any harm. Furthermore, if one team is lagging, there’s 2 others to pin your hopes in so the season isn’t totally ruined!
Re the passion. Bear in mind the states have existed for over 100 hundred years. Rugby & Qld first played each other in 1882. Victoria & WA both kickstarted their original district comps before 1900, faded away & tried again. SA started before WW2.
Whatever the sport, you’ll always have the traditional state passion to fall back on. I also thought I answered the cost of travel, transportation & accommodation argument by suggesting the S14 downsize. As for the national comp, there’s only 5 teams in the top tier. Even if they played home & away, that’s only 8 games each, plus a final.
Some years ago, it was suggested to have a national comp with all 12 Sydney premier rugby teams, plus 2 from Brisbane, Canberra & Melbourne. Very arrogant of Sydney to make it Sydney-centric. And who would follow Sydney University???
I’m about making rugby truly national. I would hope there’s a time in the future when rugby fans turning out to watch Brighton Tigers take on Port Adelaide Pirates in Adelaide are treated to as entralling a club match as say Randwick versus Eastwood in Sydney, or Brothers versus Sunnybank in Brisbane.
There’s a rugby world out there beyond Sydney, or Sydney & Brisbane. I for one, refuse for Australian rugby to be fenced in around Sydney & Brisbane.
Yikes……….Yikes!
Look guys,
I’m no genius here. Ever wonder where I got my inspiration for an Australian rugby national comp from?
1. Exhibit A – Australian cricket – Sheffield Shield/Pura Cup.
2. Exhibit B – New Zealand rugby – NPC/ANZ Cup.
3. Exhibit C – South African rugby – Currie Cup.
Study their structures & history. All 3 countries are world leaders in their chosen field of sport, for over 100 years. They must be doing something right?
Mark H said | June 24th 2008 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
Sheeks got a point and so does Yikes. The NRL are in the hurt locker, people just arnt turning up. I recon pump money into juniors and club footy. $10 to see a club game and a few beers is good value. Despite the fact that the NPC / Currie cup are good comps, we still compete internationally.
Lets support the grass roots first and build. Get the mums and dads who have never seen or played the game involved. Senior footy will always look after itself. Getting the kids interested is the key.
Westy said | June 24th 2008 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Rhys/Andrew………There are not many people at our local club games anyway. You are there with me and very few others. Passionate Yes numerically strong no . I no my diatribe is monotonous but whether it be revamped Super 14/16 competition or whatever there is an overwhelming need to have a Western Sydney provincial/representative team.
The signs of this are not good. I know Melbourne is the stongest contender and even overseas. You will have the ridiculous strategy of growing numbers of Western Sydney players never being able to represent their region. It is all to obvious that the greatest obstacle to any Western Sydney franchise is the Waratahs themselves. They have the ARU ‘s ear and what is good for the Waratahs is good for Australian rugby. Although sound in the short term it is am impediment to the long term growth of the game. Melbourne will never produce many players Western Sydney has the potential to provide rugby with a depth it has never enjoyed. But you have to start the journey with a flagbearer. The Waratahs is no longer the state team and the sooner that is understood the better. The Brumbies have strong support on the far south coast of New South Wales / Southern Higlands/Yass. For all his short comings Mckenzie offered a sympathetic ear to Western Sydney and its development . Even a greet the fans at Granville. However I remain very unconviced of any real focus by the current Waratahs and NSWRU on Western Sydney.
The only way to break the lethargy and shackles ia to give the opportunity to have a franchise in Western Sydney.More than any other code the boguns would make a Sydney derby at Parramatta or Penrith interesting to say the least. The game would expand stongly in the most populous region in Greater Sydney region, culturally closer to rugby than any Melbourne team could ever be. apart from the executives of a few Melbourne mining companies. ……but if all they are after is the short term corporate dollar Melbourne will win and rugby will always be a comfortable safe niche sport in Australia.