By Zolton
August 6th 2008 @ 9:35am
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Could a cricketer ever make it in professional baseball?
I made my way down to the batting cages in Chelsea, Manhattan recently to fulfill a long held curiosity about how someone brought up on cricket would adjust to hitting balls flying out of a pitching machine. And let me tell you, it wasn’t quite as easy as I’d imagined.
The batting cages at the Chelsea Piers have a couple of different speeds.
Once you get past the slow warm-up cage, the idea is to graduate a couple of cages along to the fast pitching set-up, where video footage of a real life pitcher is beamed onto a screen some twenty feet away from which a ball comes flying out of a hole where the hand is placed – just when you least expect it.
Which is the thing about hitting a baseball pitch. It’s onto you much quicker than your instincts imagine.
I played a couple of years of First Eleven cricket at school as an opening batsman, and then knocked around a bit in the years immediately following that. Never to any significant level. But I always thought that I had a pretty decent eye, and the right temperament with which to hit that ball out of the goddamn stadium.
Unfortunately, any allusions I had of starting a professional baseball career at the ripe old age of thirty-something were quickly shattered within the claustrophobic confines of that New York batting cage.
Hitting a baseball is a lot harder than it looks.
And this is without the spins, curves and changes of pace that all major league pitchers throw up.
Yup, give me that shiny red leather and a Gray Nichols bat any day. A ball that bounces just seems a more reasonable target.
Which is not to say that my dismal experiment should in any way be considered the template for potential cross-overs between the sports.
In a recent column in the Times, Mike Atherton quoted Australian fielding coach, Mike Young – a former baseballer himself – as saying that he saw potential in three current cricketers to make the switch:
“Andrew Symonds, of Australia, Dwayne Smith, the West Indian, and Kevin Pietersen, of England, were his picks. All three, he said, had the physical presence, ball-striking skills and speed to the ball to give it a go.”
It’s widely known that Ian Chappell was a baseball enthusiast who would often play the off-season in the local leagues. Less known is the foray of former Essex fast bowler Ian Pont, who had trials as a pitcher with six Major League Baseball teams (including the Yankees and the Phillies).
In 1988, England skipper Graham Gooch staged a ‘hit-off’ with 57 year old Hall of Famer Ernie Banks, and narrowly lost 3 home runs to 2. Of the challenge, Gooch later said: “I hit a number of balls right [on] the screws, but the wind was against me and they just fell short.”
Banks had a different theory.
He told the Boston Globe that Gooch’s problem lay with his swing: “I tried to teach him to swing up and get the ball in the air. He was used to the low, straight swing of cricket, and every time he tried to swing up, he’d pop the ball up.”
Chappell himself wasn’t optimistic about professional cricketers ever making the transition to a professional baseball arena. On a hypothetical match-up between elite cricketers and baseballers, he said bluntly: ‘”It wouldn’t be worth it. There would be no contest, absolutely no contest. Cricket’s batsmen would struggle to get bat on ball, never mind hitting a home run.”
There have been instances reported where professional baseballers have had a crack at cricket.
In 1874, an American baseball team (featuring future Hall of Famer Adrian “Cap” Anson) toured the UK and took part in a few games of cricket against local sides along the way. Although the rules were bent a little to allow them to field 18 players, the Americans were surprisingly competitive, passing 200 runs on several occasions.
Former Cubs great Sammy Sosa hosted a baseball exhibition in London in 2000 and followed that up with a few swings of a cricket bat, just to satisfy his own curisoity. By all reports, he smashed a “number of massive shots with the cricket bat,” before declaring: “if I would have practiced all my life in cricket, I would have made it as a professional.”
With the right training, perhaps it is possible for the two sports to cross-over.
Could Brett Lee have made it as a pitcher, for instance? Or Adam Gilchrest as a hitter?
We’ll never know.
But I got a good taste of just how difficult it is in those Chelsea batting cages.
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Spiro Zavos said | August 6th 2008 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Zolton
It’s been said that hitting a round baseball with a round bat is one of the hardest skills in sport. Certainly Michael Jordan couldn’t master the art when he tried out as a baseballer. And there can be no doubts about Jordan’s hand-eye skills as a basketball star. He is also a very good golfer. But he couldn’t cut the cheese hitting a baseball.
On the other hand, an Australian cricket team in the 1930s visited the USA and played a game of baseball. Stan McCabe reckoned being a hitter in baseball was much easier than batting as every ball was a full toss and McCabe knew how to hit full tosses out of the ground.
sledgeross said | August 6th 2008 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
Whta about Murali as a pitcher
The Link said | August 6th 2008 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Zolton, not sure of the control integrity of your experiment, but interesting nonetheless.!! At the end of the day, it really is what you are used to and the top players from either have the fundamentals to make it in Baseball or Cricket given training and upbringing.
The mound as I understand it is closer than the crease, which may make up for any ‘full toss’ advantage. As an aside the similarity’s between Spinners and Knuckleballers has always intruiged me.
Sosa is an interesting one. The Dominican’s have a phenominal representation in the majors for their size. Imagine this talent playing for the West Indies!!
The Waugh and Chappell brothers plus Ponting/Border would’ve made phenominal pivots, perhaps best as lead off batters. Here’s my baseball lineup of Australian Cricketers. I’ve limited it to approx the last 20 years
1. Ricky Ponting (SS)
2. Mark Waugh (Third Base)
3. Simon O’Donnell (Left Field)
4. Andrew Symonds (Centre Field)
5. Steve Waugh (2nd Base)
6. Adam Gilchrist (Catcher)
7. Alan Border (1st Base)
8. Craig McDermott (Centre Field)
9. Brett Lee (Pitcher)
Monty String said | August 6th 2008 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
ZOLTON – the pitching machine was on level ground in every cage I ever batted in, while in baseball the pitch comes down at you from the mound. This is one of the differences in cricket versus baseball batters. Also, right now, the Jay’s Roy Halladay gets it over the plate at 92 mph. Many major league pitchers get close to this speed, while very few bowlers can get close. And then the ball is slowed by the bounce of the pitch. Also, because the baseball swing is a horizontal one, a quarter inch under the sweet spot produces either a popup or just a long out, while a quarter inch above the sweet spot and you’ve got a grounder.
Nobody has ever equated, to anybody’s satisfaction, the number of homers a player might hit in a game to a cricket batsman scoring a century. The great Willie Mays – I was lucky enough to see him and Bradman, although, naturally, not on the same ground – once hit four homers in a major league game. What kind of cricket score would that equal?
Monty String said | August 6th 2008 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
LINK – a spinner’s delivery only moves after it hits the ground. A knuckle ball, because it’s delivered with zero spin, moves through the air and drops alarmingly if delivered properly.
The similarity is this: if a spinner doesn’t have his stuff, he’s easy meat. And if a knuckleballer can’t get the ball to move, bang! zoom! Home run.
Chris Beck said | August 6th 2008 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
I once read (in George Will’s book on baseball) that pitching is all about upsetting the hitter’s timing. Does the same apply in cricket? Completely, or to a degree?
I personally believe that a pitcher’s job in baseball is helped tremendously by the sheer number of undisciplined hitters throughout the major leagues.
My own experience in the batting cage, having never played baseball myself, leads me to conclude that it just takes time to adjust to the speed. Initially it is difficult at 70 mph, a couple of dozen balls later I found myself making regular contact, and occasionally driving the ball hard.
Of course, 90 mph is another thing entirely, and if the pitcher has command sufficient to move the breaking pitches around, and throw them for strikes . . . .
Lindommer said | August 6th 2008 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Could a cricketer ever make it in professional baseball? Jon Chappell, Greg’s son.
El Capitan said | August 6th 2008 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
I too had a go in a batter cage at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown NY. I must admit it took me a few dollars worth of quaters to get used to the speed of the pitch. Once I had the speed worked out, i managed to hit the ball, but played low shots (a result I guess from the constant extra fitness work for hitting the ball in the air at cricket practice at school). I did manage to hit a few screamers, but the sweet spot was so hard to find, compared to a cricket bat.
I then had a go at pitching. Was a machine that recorded your speed. I did get a few fast balls 80mph, and every pitch was in the middle of the catchers glove (was an outline of a glove to aim at). Was quite impressed with my round arm pitch until a 16yr old managed to throw the ball at 87mph. I guess the technique is instilled into them at a young age to use your glove and to throw a particular way?
The other interesting point was catching the ball. I used my glove where I could (was on a social softball game), but a few catches were with my open hard. The players were shocked, but it was a reaction from years of playing cricket I guess?
sheek said | August 6th 2008 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
In bygone days a lot of Australian cricketers combined Sheffield Shield cricket in the summer & Claxton Shield baseball in the winter.
The Chappell brothers developed a love of baseball from their grandfather Vic Richardson, who also played test cricket for Australia. I recall Ian Chappell saying that baseball was especially good for fielding, catching & throwing, & of course, hand & eye co-ordination speed & reflexes.
Link,
Interesting selections, but I have no idea to their accuracy of position! Fun though. Also fascinating to hear comments from those who have tried baseball out via the machines.
I played baseball at primary school in PNG. There were quite a few American kids at the school also. It was great fun, but that was oh so very long ago.
old goalie said | August 7th 2008 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
What about baseballers throwing skills? I don’t think anyone in the Aus cricket team can throw as well (accuracy/speed/trajectory) as a pro baseballer
The Link said | August 7th 2008 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Oops, Craig McDermott should be Right Field. I put him and Brett Lee in as the only two specialist bowlers cause they hit the ball a long way.
NashvilleCat said | August 8th 2008 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Regarding the distance of bowler to batsman vs. pitcher to batter, in cricket the distance between the creases is 58 feet while the distance in baseball is 60 feet 6 inches. I’ve read an analysis though that the distance from release point of the ball out of the hand of the bowler to batsman compared to the distance of release point from pitcher to batter is roughly equal. For the baseball pitcher the mound is (I believe) 10 inches higher than the batter at the plate. This gives the pitcher an advantage in achieving extra pace in his delivery as he strides forward and down from the sloping mound and I would imagine the elevated release point out of the hand is another advantage for the pitcher.
Another element to consider in the difference between the two is that in baseball the batter will get 3 to 5 “at-bats” per game and three swings-and-misses(strikes) per at-bat versus one “at-bat” for a cricketer in a limited overs game and two “at-bats” in a test match. There is a different psychology for the baseball player who goes up to the plate for his first at-bat knowing he can “swing for the fences” three times and miss on each swing resulting in an out but he has the mindset of knowing he gets 3 or 4 more chances to bat in the game. This of course contrasts to the cricket batsman who takes the crease and on the first ball he sees if he swings and misses one time and the ball hits the stumps his one at-bat is over in a one-day/T20 match and his 1 of 2 at-bats is over in a test. The aspect of batting in cricket where one mistake ends your innings versus baseball batting in which the batter is allowed to make several mistakes during the course of game would be a big adjustment for the baseball player. Sammy Sosa’s ability to knock the ball out of the ground in a cricket practice session is one thing but to put him in a match situation with the pressure of his team chasing a target and one swing and miss ends his “at-bat” and his team’s chance of winning is quite another thing when Sosa is used to being able to swing and miss something like 15 times in a single three hour baseball game. As a lifelong baseball fan and a cricket fan of 4 years I would be very interested to see the likes of Ponting batting in a match situation where he has the luxury of 5 at-bats to work with versus an Alex Rodriguez in a cricket match situation where he has only on at-bat and he has to psychologically adjust to one mistake and he’s out.
Ian Pont said | August 16th 2008 @ 2:59am | Report comment
Interesting thread! Yes, the article was ciorrect to say I had MLB tryouts with 6 clubs including NY Yankees and Philadelphia Phillies, who invited me to Spring Training. I got to pitch in one professional exhibition match at this time, bizarrely recieving $2000US as cheque the moment I stepped off the mound (something to do with being a professional for that match). The Phils kept me for 3 weeks and offered me an extended one month minor league contract as a pitcher to see if I could cut it. But as I was in the middle of a 2 year pro cricket contract with Essex at the time, I couldn’t take this risk. I really wanted a year at least and I would have had a go at baseball.
For the record I hit speeds around 100 mph at times in between throwing some dross. They said that I was ‘old’ as a 25 year old to try out and the fact I’d never played the game before made the whole things kinda weird, when they had lads of 17 who could throw more accurately than me and had played the game from aged 8 or 9. But then they wondered how good could I be with coaching?
It’s all in the past now, but I wonder how it would have gone if I had have stayed and tried out for the month into the season. Within 2 years I have retired from pro cricket due to lack of opportunity and a very average first class record.
Today I coach fast bowling (and throwing) so something stuck from those days of learning advanced biomechanics of the throw!
Max said | August 16th 2008 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
Ian Pont. so which do you think is a more difficult sport all together, not just hitting?
Ian Pont said | August 16th 2008 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
Cricket is far more difficult to learn and master than baseball. If you can catch, throw and hit well, you can play baseball to a high level. But the same isn’t so true of cricket due to the variations in batting and bowling. Of all sportspeople, cricketers would probably have the best chance of switching to baseball, as I tried to do, but the challenge for them is being good enough just by having a ‘go’ at it.
Cricket has learned a great deal from baseball – mostly on fielding – and in Twenty 20, some hitting techniques.
If someone played both sports from a young enough age, they could be pro in both. Whether anyone could/would switch as an adult is an interesting idea. As yet, no one has really been a top gun in both although there are records of cricketers 100 years ago, playing both professionally.
Phil Coorey said | August 16th 2008 @ 7:38pm | Report comment
How did I miss this thread?? When the word baseball gets mentioned on this site – I demand someone send me an email!!!
Now I have to gather my thoughts and comment – thats could take a few hours!!!
Max said | August 17th 2008 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Great Discussion. Ive always wanted to have this discussion.
Max said | August 17th 2008 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Check out this great article from MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060608&content_id=1495668&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
SouthernWaratah said | August 22nd 2008 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
As a Jnr in Newcastle Cricket we had a baseballer come over and play for us (U15) and he was by far the biggest hitter in our team, anything short of a good length went over mid wicket. (U16 season bacame interesting next to a main road!) His only flaw was that anything up near his toes and he rang to the leg side. But at a Jnr level all that the bowlers wanted to do once they got hit was bounce him…. and thus another went over the fence.
If he had have had a forward defence he’d have been an awsome player…..
Max said | August 23rd 2008 @ 7:32am | Report comment
I would love to see the world’s best of both sports faceoff in a cricket match. But im worried that cricket might be too ‘easy’ for the baseballers; and they might win. I dont know if anyone wants to find out who is better. i would like to think that cricketers would win a cricket match and baseballers would win thiers.(if both were to play each other in each sport)
NashvilleCat said | August 24th 2008 @ 6:44am | Report comment
Here’s an article by Mike Haysman from the South African SuperSport site about a West Indies batsman who participated in batting practice with Cuban baseball players:
http://www.supersport.co.za/cricket/columns.aspx?id=5733&headline=Havana%20day%20to%20remember%20in%20Cuba..
Max said | August 25th 2008 @ 6:17am | Report comment
so whats the bottom line?
Max said | August 27th 2008 @ 9:47am | Report comment
WOULD CRICKET (batting) BE THAT EASY FOR BASEBALL PLAYERS IF THEY WERE TO ATTEMPT TO PLAY IT?
NashvilleCat said | November 26th 2008 @ 11:29am | Report comment
This link is to a BBC story about two boys from India who have been signed to professional contracts with Major League Baseball’s Pittsburgh Pirates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7747553.stm
Max said | January 28th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
WHERE IS EVERYBODY? LETS DISCUSS THIS PEOPLE.
SouthernWaratah said | January 28th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
Is David Warner the answer to this question? He hits the ball like a baseballer for me, he reminds me of the guy I mentioned earlier… except with some sort of defence
Joe O'Sullivan said | January 28th 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Max I’m very happy to discuss with you as I’m a big baseball fan. I remember a story a couple of years ago that said the Red Sox might be interested in Adam Gilchrist when he finished cricket, but obviously it never came to anything. I also remember Bill Lawry saying he did have preliminary discussions with one club (Yankees I think) but also nothing eventuated. I suspect left-handers would be the more interesting prospect for baseball clubs.