The Rugby League World Cup is a joke

Skull said | November 17th 2008 @ 7:31am | Report comment

Almost as entertaining as a penalty shootout to decide a match

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 7:43am | Report comment

Rugby League World Cup, 3 competitive teams.
Rugby Union World Cup, 6 competitive teams.
Really, when you look at things on a “world” scale, both World Cups are really a sham. League is not as advanced internationally as Union, and I admit I didnt have high expectations coming in to this tournament, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the entertainment value. Most games have been exciting, even the wallopings the Kangaroos have handed out, we have seen some close, hard matches between the “minnows” and Australia have been sublime. I think they have done ok actually, and it might inspire these smaller countries to develop the game.

alan nicolea said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:13am | Report comment

Sledgecross

SEVEN competitive team in Union - SA, AUS, NZ ,ENG, FRA, WALES, ARG, maybe even FIJI.

alan nicolea said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:14am | Report comment

Sledgecross

make it nine because i forgot about Ireland.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:26am | Report comment

Alan, how many can WIN the RU World Cup though?
Lets face it, its only 5 (SA, NZ, Australia, England, France).

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:57am | Report comment

Leftie,

Here’s my fearless prediction - rugby union & rugby league will come together within 20 years. Note I used the phrase ‘come together’ & not the word ‘amalgamate’.

The world game will be rugby union. In Australia, a national comp will be dominated by former rugby league icon clubs, but those clubs & players will be playing union. The leagueies might force some concessions from the rah-rahs regarding laws of the game, but essentially it will be union.

Neither code is strong enough or good enough by itself. Worldwide the rugby codes are dwarfed by assocation football. In Australia, the rugby codes will come under increasing pressure not only from Australian football but also assocaiation football.

The fork in the road will become one again.

Matt said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:00am | Report comment

Well Wales are the 6 Nations champs and the Irish team are also a pretty darn good side. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Ireland made the WC final in 2011. They have some great young talent coming through (Luke Fitzgerald, Keith Earls, Rob Kearney) and have probably the two best clubs in Europe at the moment (Munster and Leinster).

Wales are coming on strong under Gatland. Only just losing to world No.2 Spouth Africa. Heck, even Scotland are improving to the point where the Boks were lucky to escape. As always the AB’s are favorites, but somehow they just keep getting beaten and proving that the Union WC actually has many potential winners.

For my mind, 5 have a really good chance (those sledgeross listed above) but 8 sides have at least a realistic chance, of the similar potential as the Kiwis league team. NZ, Aus, SAF, Eng, Fra, Ire, Wal, Arg.

Ireland, Wales and Argentina will always struggle to win the Cup if they have to face the AB’s, but they can do damage to the Boks and Wallabies on a regular basis. Even Italy is growing under Nick Mallet.

There are certainly 10 great international teams (Scotland and Italy added to the above), with 8 WC potential winners. Thrown into that are the 3 Island nations (Samoa, Tonga, Fiji) who’s physicality can upset the NH sides (and almost the Boks) and the Union WC becomes pretty competitive.

If the US and Japan (plus Russia, Romania and Canada) ever get their acts together fully then there will be a very competitive Rugby world going on. And if the two Rugby codes ever did come together then there’d be some seriously passionate fans to spread the gospel, as well as a lot of money and players worldwide.

Imagine the growth of a combined ‘Rugby’ code?!

Alan Nicolea said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:03am | Report comment

Sledgecross

Like Matt said, there are about eight competitive teams who have realistic chances of thinking they can claim the webb ellis trophy. IMO i think there are nine.

Big Kev said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:04am | Report comment

Sledgeross - yes only a few teams could win a RUWC but only a few teams can win a Soccer World Cup so whats the point you are making? There are a bunch of countries who play RU in significant numbers that are not good enough to win the RUWC (Japan, USA, Romania, Fiji etc) - that is not the same as a RLWC where Fiji make the semis but there are only 500 RL players in the entire country!!

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:08am | Report comment

Fair enough Alan. I guess time will define the difference between realism and optimism.

Ill throw a few stats out there though. Thus far at the League world cup, the average point differential has been approx 24.5 points. The pool rounds from the last RUWC was 29.85 points.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:10am | Report comment

Kev, Im not saying league is any better than other sports, Im just saying that when you analyse things, there is not much difference (namely, the inference that the RLWC is a joke).

Koala Bear said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:21am | Report comment

The semi final ( i.e. top 4 in the ‘world; ) of RL ‘World Cup’ ‘ Australia beat fiji ‘ 52-0 in front of a crowd of just…15000..

Well I’m one to watch all ot the Australian National teams play and support them to the hilt… But after the first two tries, in the first 5 minutes, of the exasperating semi, trying to stay awake until half time .. I succumbed to an early night, as watching the Wallabies early on was just too much for me in one day… Even Guus Gould’s commentary was not enough to keep me interested…. Interesting to note across the ditch we had the under 17 girls World Cup Football (Socca) final which drew a crowd of 16,162 in Auckland NZ of all places …. What is going on .??. ! ! !

~~~~~~~~~
KB

LeftArmSpinner said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:25am | Report comment

gentlemen, great debate. I was talking about the lower standard “not being a scratch team” rather than “can win the Cup” standard. The RWC teams play plenty of games annually and in the qualification rounds. RLWC was about scratch teams thrown together at the last minute.

I agree wiith Sheek’s prediction.

Ian Noble said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:31am | Report comment

It is regrettable that from the outset the only team capable of winning RLWC was the Kangaroos. As a spectacle some of the games have been pretty poor and England’s dismal performance will have a major impact upon the viability of the next RLWC.

I was also intrigued watching the Fiji semi final the poor attendance at the game. When I was in OZ for RWC2003 I was impressed by the stadia but also by the attendances which were excellent. For a semi of a so called World Cup to not attract a full stadium, speaks volumes either for poor marketing or lack of interest or indeed both.

Jerry said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:39am | Report comment

“Ill throw a few stats out there though. Thus far at the League world cup, the average point differential has been approx 24.5 points. The pool rounds from the last RUWC was 29.85 points.”

Ok, I’m not one of the people rubbishing the RLWC (while it’s obviously not the pinnacle of the sport, it’s still worthwhile, in my opinion), but that’s a meaningless comparison. The RLWC structured its pools so the top teams were all in the same pool for the express purpose of preventing mismatches in the pool stages. The RWC had the more conventional seeding structure with it’s pools where the top seeds were all in different pools.

If Aus, England and NZ had all been in different pools for the RLWC and had pool fixtures against the likes of Ireland, Fiji, France and Scotland your average margin would have been far higher and likewise if the All Blacks hadn’t had fixtures against Italy, Portugal and Romania (to use one pool example) the average margin from the RWC would have come down considerably.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:46am | Report comment

Fair point Jerry, I was merely illustrating that the “also rans” from both codes cannot compete against upper tier opponents.
I hope League does follow the model that Union has, because the growth in places like Romania, Russia, Canada, Portugal etc has been handled briallantly,
You only have to look at the way the Lebanese league team was handled by the bigwigs, plus the fact that Wales were not in the RLWC (after producing some decent players in times past) that League has alot to learn from the way Union has developed their brand over the last 20 years.

oikee said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:49am | Report comment

I also agree with Sheek, and the sooner we merge the 2 the better. Australia would be so much better off just allowing the league teams to merge into union, “so we have contested scrums and line-outs”, big deal, at least we will see some top shelf backs struting their stuff and the game will finally move forward as one. The Kangaroos are to good for their own good, its time these players moved to union and bolstered the Union game in this country.

I have tried to be supportive of league but it does itself not one favour , Gus Goulds comment last night was the final straw for me. Quoted “Jarad Hayne is playing himself back into a Kangaroo Jumper” This is a response from a dumb person and i for one are now sick to death of Dumb.

JohnB said | November 17th 2008 @ 10:08am | Report comment

Interesting looking at the facts here (soccer v RU world cups), and it does depend a bit on how you frame the question. I don’t think anyone could seriously argue that there aren’t more international soccer teams in a notional “first division” each of whom could match (maybe not beat, but match) any of the others on a given day, as compared to the number of international rugby teams who could be competitive against each other. Partly that’s a function of the nature of soccer (where you can stack your defence and thereby live with a stronger or more skillful team) as against rugby (where a stronger team will generally beat a weaker one), but there still are more countries at that level in soccer.

When it comes to World Cups, maybe you have more teams that are competitive in soccer, and maybe it’s harder to predict the quarter finals, but at the business end of the comps things haven’t been that unpredictable.

So far 4 different teams (NZ, Australia, SA and England) have won the 6 RU World Cups. Uruguay (many years ago), Brazil and Argentina from Sth America, and England, West Germany, Italy and France from Europe between them have won all of the 18 soccer World Cups. Soccer does come out further in front when you look at the losing finalists and semi-finalists - only France has got to RU World Cup finals and never won. For soccer, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Sweden and the Netherlands have made World Cup finals without ever winning (Germany has also, but I think it should be treated as equivalent to West Germany for this purpose), although you have to go back a fair way for most of them. Since the Netherleands got to the finals in 74 and 78, both finalists have come from 4 of the previous winners to that date, plus a first time winner in France. There are more teams represented in soccer, although not so much recently, and none from outside Europe.

Teams which have got to the semis without ever progressing further - for rugby you then add in Wales, Scotland and Argentina, for soccer a lot of countries (US, Yugoslavia, Austria, Spain, Chile, Portugal, USSR, Poland, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Turkey and Sth Korea). One or two of these were only in the first few cup - on the other hand, there have been new entrants to the list in the past few. The ex-communist bloc countries had their heydays back when communism was strong but have faded since. Hosting the cup has also coincided with the only appearance of a couple of teams. Political changes also arguably inflate numbers (Yugoslavia/Croatia).

What can you make of all of this? If you look at the raw numbers, given you’re talking about 6 World Cups compared to 18, rugby appears to bear comparison to soccer in terms of the number of teams that have taken part. At the top level, if you complain that rugby is restricted to only a few countries, you can say that soccer remains a very closed shop also, with Europe providing the vast majority of top-performing teams (other than the 2 South American heavyweights). I think that’s misleading, because there simply are more good teams in soccer than there are in rugby - but maybe the quality in soccer isn’t as widely spread as some would have you believe.

Matt said | November 17th 2008 @ 10:28am | Report comment

John, it’s true that Soccer isn’t quite as diverse (at the WC winners table) as the supporters sometimes suggest, but it is still certainly the benchmark for a WC tournament and for a true worldwide game. The recent growth of Rugby, since the embrace of professionalism, bodes well for the future of the game though. It is growing in all corners of the world faster than it ever has done. That is in terms of media exposure, advertising, money, participation, elite competitions and competitive clubs and national teams.

If Sheeks prediction (which is by no means unrealistic) comes to fruition, then a combined Rugby code in Australia and England would see a massive jump in the growth of the game worldwide. The thought of titanic ESL teams like St Helens, Wigan and Leeds battling the midcountry GP giants of Leicester, Gloucester etc and of the NRL’s iconic clubs like the Broncos, Dragons and Roosters taking on the S14’s Crusaders, Stormers, Force etc is enough to give any code confidence of becoming truely world class.

It’s true that both rugby neighbours gaze across their fence at parts of a game they’d love to claim as their own. Hopefully one day that fence can come down and those supporters of both codes can put their energy behind one great rugby code. Look out world if that happens!

Arky said | November 17th 2008 @ 10:29am | Report comment

In the same weekend RU sees a full stadium in France for France v Pacific Islands, and a stadium with more empty than occupied seats for Australia versus Fiji in a RLWC semi final - how can anyone think that these two games can be compared?
Does the NRL administration care about the game or ‘its’ game only - surely the myopic behavior it demonstrates will spend the end of RL.

Redb said | November 17th 2008 @ 10:34am | Report comment

I think the public is voting with its feet, only 15,000 to a semi final of a World Cup with Australia playing in Australia. Not much else needs to be said about the depth of this tournament.

I’m sure the final will sellout against NZ though

Redb

Lanky said | November 17th 2008 @ 10:43am | Report comment

sledgeross said: Kev, Im not saying league is any better than other sports, Im just saying that when you analyse things, there is not much difference (namely, the inference that the RLWC is a joke).

Come on Sledgy - how can you compare them? The lowest attendance at a game at the SFS for RWC03 was Ireland v Namibia which was higher than Aus v NZ at this RLWC!http://www.theroar.com.au/2008/11/17/the-rugby-league-world-cup-is-a-joke/

You just cannto compare test rugby with RL;
60,000 people just attended Canada v Wales. Wales are the 6 nations champs and ranked 7th in the world. Canada are 15th. The Canadians came very close to pulling off an upset.
Scotland, ranked 9th narrowly failed to beat the RWC holders South Africa at the weekend.
All these games played in front of full houses with massive TV audiences.
The Pacific Island side played in front of massive crowds against England and France past 2 weeks.

All you have to do is look at the full list of rugby internationals played this past week;

EN Cup 15 NOV 2008 Spain 22 - 11 Germany Ciudad Universitaria
RWC Qual. 15 NOV 2008 Spain 22 - 11 Germany Ciudad Universitaria
A5N 15 NOV 2008 Chinese Taipei 35 - 23 Sri Lanka Tainan Rugby Park
RWC Qual. 15 NOV 2008 Chinese Taipei 35 - 23 Sri Lanka Tainan Rugby Park
Tour 15 NOV 2008 Italy 14 - 22 Argentina Stadio Olimpico
Tour 15 NOV 2008 England 14 - 28 Australia Twickenham
Tour 15 NOV 2008 Scotland 10 - 14 South Africa Murrayfield
EN Cup 15 NOV 2008 Bulgaria 8 - 11 Israel Pernik
EN Cup 15 NOV 2008 Lithuania 33 - 0 Switzerland Central Stadium
RWC Qual. 15 NOV 2008 Bulgaria 8 - 11 Israel Pernik
RWC Qual. 15 NOV 2008 Lithuania 33 - 0 Switzerland Central Stadium
EN Cup 15 NOV 2008 Czech Republic 13 - 7 Poland Ostrava
RWC Qual. 15 NOV 2008 Czech Republic 13 - 7 Poland Ostrava
EN Cup 15 NOV 2008 Slovakia 32 - 46 Bosnia & Herz’ Bratislava
Tour 14 NOV 2008 Wales 34 - 13 Canada Millennium Stadium
A5N 13 NOV 2008 Chinese Taipei 22 - 23 Singapore Tainan Rugby Park
RWC Qual. 13 NOV 2008 Chinese Taipei 22 - 23 Singapore Tainan Rugby Park
A5N 11 NOV 2008 Singapore 20 - 20 Sri Lanka Tainan Rugby Park
RWC Qual. 11 NOV 2008 Singapore 20 - 20 Sri Lanka Tainan Rugby Park

Scottmit said | November 17th 2008 @ 11:03am | Report comment

An interesting question is to imagine how the RL/RU merge will happen. RU offers the international and provincial competition but lacks the natoinal club level support and revenue that RL can bring to the table to really compete with Association Football and AFL.

Rules compromises are not really an option because OZ does not have control over the international RU community (and a good thing this is too, because it shows a strong international communtiy for the game). Witness the EVL imbroglio which is going to take years to clear.

There are cooperatiive scenarios, but consider the following:

I suspect that the first ARL club to break ranks (Canterbury, anyone? Maybe Melbourne?) will be offered the next provincial S14/16 franchise. Others will be invited to bring their brands to a national competition sitting under the Super franchises, similar to the NZ competition. This could be done in without the clubs necessarily withdrawing their teams from the ARL. (The offer may not be restricted to ARL and ARU franchises - consider an AFL franchise such as Geelong fielding a team…)

The national competition needs to be self-funding very quickly - ARU has already had experience with trying to support an artificial national compettion which could not contribute - but the inclusion of such clubs bringing their own tribes of supporters makes this more likely.

On the other hand we could just wait until European Rugby has bled the ARL dry of its talent and then start again…

onside said | November 17th 2008 @ 11:05am | Report comment

I live two hours north of Brisbane.

It gets dark this far east an hour or more earlier than either Sydney or Melbourne

Families get up earlier,(daylight4.30am) and go to bed earlier.

At 8.30 pm (EST) on Sunday night Fox sports reported Australia 42 Fiji 0
Shortky after the fulltime score was reported …………., Australia 52 Fiji 0

Chanel 9 showed Fiji KICKING OFF in a delayed telecast at 8.45 pm !!!!!!!

8.45 pm if you dont mind , shortly after the actual game had finished.

How many school children would be able to stay up until 11pm and watch the game.

The RLWC is RL’s showcase event. It should be a celebration of the code Its also ARL’s 100year anniversary.

DONT BELIEVE ONE WORD OF THE ARL PROPOGANDA PROMOTING RUGBY LEAGUE AS A FAMILY GAME.

ITS ALL SPIN. THEY DONT GIVE TWO HOOTS ABOUT THE FAMILY

Last week Australia played PNG at Townsville. Families in Queensland were likewise denied a live feed even
though the match was played in the same time zone. It also finished at 11 pm ( school kids cant stay up that late)

FAMILY GAME? GO FIGURE

Dave said | November 17th 2008 @ 11:20am | Report comment

John B

Socceroos, a decent team by most standards, are ranked 37 or thereabouts…that gives you some understanding of the depth of football around the world in comparison to Rugby which is still to a large extent dominated by Commonwealth (or former) countries. There is no comparison between the 2 codes in terms of quality spread around the world and depth of playing numbers.

Lanky

You seemed to have doubled up quite a bit on your list of games. Also not all the big games were full houses as there were plenty of spare seats at Murrayfield (36,000 can hold 60,000) and Millenium Stadiums. What were the massive TV audiences?

Clutch Cable said | November 17th 2008 @ 11:33am | Report comment

Not fair to call it a joke…a good joke usually has a strong buildup and an unexpected conclusion.

Towser said | November 17th 2008 @ 11:40am | Report comment

JohnB

Whilst it cannot be disputed that only a handful of nations have won the Football World Cup indicating that the nations that have won it remain the strongest at this elite level, & more to the point know how to win historically at this elite level,if you start to breakdown the sport at Confederation level you perhaps get more of an idea of the strength of the sport Internationally.
The fact that there are six FIFA confederations each with strong National team comps(Oceania the exception) outside WC qualifiers upholds this.
The Euros are a good example in what in my opinion is arguably a more difficult task to win than the World Cup,given the close strengths of European Football nations.
These are the winners of the 13 EURO’s since 1960.
West Germany-2 Germany-1 Russia-1 Spain-2 Italy-1 Czechoslovakia -1 France-2 Netherlands-1 Denmark-1
Greece-1.
A much greater spread with even Italy having won only 1.
The problem with spreading any sport to create equal strength throughout the globe pretty much comes back to “Brass “.That is the difficulty & the reason that one of the African nations as an example have not won a World Cup in Football.& no African nation has a reasonable “Professional ” League despite some wonderful players coming from there & playing in the top European Leagues.
Personally I think the expectation that any sport(even Football despite its global spread) can expect to have winners from every corner of the planet is unrealistic given the disparity in the economies around the world.
Its no coincidence for instance that in Asia that Japan with the worlds second biggest economy is the most advanced football nation.
International sports development requires big dollars. Only a few countries have the spare cash to throw around on what is essentially frivolity in comparison to worrying about where the next bowl of rice is coming from & that aint going to change for most of the world.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:05pm | Report comment

Lanky, you are missing my point, and your little list doesnt really prove anything besides that Rugby has a better international competition (which I have never argued even remotely).
Tell me though, what was the standard of the Taipai Vs Sri Lanka? Bulgaria Vs Israel? Was it any better than the Samoa V Tonga game at Penrith, or Ireland Vs France in the RLWC? Probably not. In fact, the RL sides could probably play these teams at Rugby and still win. What I was saying though is that their are lower tier teams in both comps, but that doesnt make it invalid at all. As Ive said before, I think RL should learn from RU in getting the game to develop internationally, becaus ethe IRU have done such a fantastic job since it all became professional. I think if you take Australia out of the equation, the RLWC has been quite entertaining though.
CLutchCable, your post has to be the post of the topic mate!

LeftArmSpinner said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:19pm | Report comment

Scotmit, the ELVs will change sooner than you think because the Poms are now playing an expansive game!! like the Welsh and the French already do. Just watch. It will happen under the auspices of a magnanimous gesture to unity when it is really self interest. They will extract some concession, like a RWC in coming years or something else.

The RLWC is also as real as a NRL scrum!

Very sad really, particularly when you compare it to the endless debate and discussion that preceeded the Wallabies England game and their respective packs and scrums.

Clutch, wouldn’t it be great if the NZ beat the Aussies next Saturday. I am a card carrying Aussie but I’m on NZ!!

Who Needs Melon said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:32pm | Report comment

sledgeross,

The title of this article is “The Rugby League World Cup is a joke”. It is. And almost eveyone agrees it is. Let’s be realistic for a moment. You can legitimately ask “what’s the point in even having this competition”. That’s the point.

YOUR point seems to be that the Rugby UNION World Cup is also a joke. This is very debatable. While many have suggestions for tinkering with the FORMAT of the Rugby Union World Cup, getting rid of it altogether is unthinkable.

However, even if it is true that the Union World Cup is a joke, it doesn’t in any way effect the point that “The Rugby League World Cup is a joke”, does it?

In the playground one kid says “you smell”. The other says “so do you”.

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:52pm | Report comment

Oikee,

Rugby union isn’t actually that bad a game, it’s merely played by generally ordinary athletes. Look at the ABs, they are so incredibly athletic, they don’t allow the sometimes pedantic laws of the game to muzzle them too often.

In Australia, the majority of better athletes are playing league. Imagine in 20 years, there was only one rugby code. So what if the Inglisses, Slaters, Lockyers & Smiths of 2020 are playing rugby union with proper scrums, lineouts & rucks.

The athletiscism & skill level would be so good, they would refuse to muzzled by potentially pendantic laws!

Sledgeross/Jerry,

Re the points differential between teams in union & league. Keep in mind union tries & penalties are worth an extra point, & field goals an extra 2 points. A league scoreline of 33-8, comprising 6 converted tries, a penalty & field goal, to a converted try & penalty would convert to 48-9 under union scoreline.

So naturally, the points differential in union would be greater than league. And Jerry was right in saying the league pools were loaded, with one pool made up of the ‘big 4′, & another 2 pools of minnows. So naturally, this has helped keep the huge scores down.

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:54pm | Report comment

Sorry, 33-8 to 41-10. It’s 5 converted tries, not 6! Boy, I need to work on my maths……….

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 12:57pm | Report comment

Good point on the points scoring Sheek, I completely forgot abot that, though we all know most of the points come from penalties

Lanky said | November 17th 2008 @ 1:29pm | Report comment

Sledgey, the point is that there is a well organised rugby presence in all those countries with a lomng history and organised international competition, world cup qualifiers etc. Obviously the standard is not up to scratch of the top nations but that is not the point. It is just ridiculous to see some people get so excited about Lebanon in International RL with 4 clubs (now 5). International RL will not grow on the back of a 13 good players (NRL or SL) representing some obscure country with no affinity to the sport. There has to be support within the country or there will be no money and no sponsorship. So you might laugh at Sri Lanka (or Romania or Japan or Namibia or Zimbabwe etc) in Rugby Union - but they have 1) interest 2)infrastructure 3) corporare support 4)player numbers. What they need to do is improve their standards. You might be able to put together a half decent RL side from players of Lebanese extraction, but that doesnt give you any of the other things that you need to be truly representative. And of course the Aussie self interest doesnt help either- the comment about Jarrod Hayne playing his way into the Kangaroos side is a case in point.

Ian said | November 17th 2008 @ 1:45pm | Report comment

The article has hit the nail on the head. What other world cup has only ever had one winner? The answer to that question should make any doubters realise just what a farce it is! It’s absolutely ridiculous and the poor crowds have only confirmed what everyone knows, though are reluctant to admit! It’s a waste of time and money, and even the TV broadcasters recognise this fact by having delayed broadcasts!

They should have simply had NZ play GB in the best of three, and then the winner play Aus in the final. I reckon they’ve already engraved Aus on the cup!

As for Phil Gould calling it entertainment, what a joke. Mind you, I suppose he had 16 000 odd supporters in a stadium that seats over 40 000!

And whose watching? Some in Aus, even less in NZ, and a precious few in northern England. No-one else cares. So yes, it is a complete and utter farce.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 2:20pm | Report comment

Lanky, Im not disagreeing with you at all.
Having watched most of the games (in varying degrees, and having a mild addiction to obscure sporting teams), as I said earlier, I think the matchplay has been generally entertaining, and hope that the success of the lesser lights provides impetus for development. Players from Samoa, Tonga, Fiji etc have either had to play for Oz or NZ to play international RL, seeing the pride these blokes showed in their jumper, maybe there might be something there. Perhaps in 10 years time they might be on par with some of these other countries. I think the RLWC has been poorly run and marketed, but I think it may possibly spark something. We do need more of these countries playing tests though. Look at PNG, rugby league mad, and for the main their players stood up against the big guns. the International RL board needs to do something. League will never be as big as union, but if its clever, can carve out a nice little global niche.

Lanky said | November 17th 2008 @ 2:36pm | Report comment

Sledgey - yes I do agree. But in the end some of the comments on this and other threads probably suggest the best way forward is to amalgamate, but I dont see that happening which is a pity and a whole different discussion. The foundation of RL is the club game, while the foundation of Union is the representative game (state and international level). In the UK where there is a strong club rugby setup, there is continual club v country conflicat, as there is in soccer. Lets for a minute assume the NRL was now RU. How would that fit with the S14 and test commitments? Very tricky! But I guess similar to the issues they have in NZ and SA with Currie Cup and NPC.

sledgeross said | November 17th 2008 @ 3:20pm | Report comment

Mate, Ive just noticed that very often the Union types here just want to bash league. Its important, as you point out, to differentiate the distance between the two. League is a club based game, Union the more representitive game. League are rightfully jealous of the international reach of Union, and likewise Union are envious of the club comps of league.

And never the twain shall meet

PB said | November 17th 2008 @ 3:25pm | Report comment

This RL “world cup” is just another example of everything about the game - a concocted spectacle. Face it, if Australia turn up to play..at all… they will flog anyone.

Arky said | November 17th 2008 @ 4:03pm | Report comment

The RLWC is a concocted spectacle - does anyone really care that it is on? I struggle to find firends who are regular spectators at NRL fixtures who have even watched a televised game let alone attend as a spectator. It is a joke.

Sledgeross you make a valid point about the club versus representative nature of the game - it makes me wonder whether it explains the parochial mindset and myopic thinking that dominates the politics of RL?

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 5:26pm | Report comment

Sledgeross,

Once upon a time Europeans were terrified if they crossed too much distance of the Atlantic ocean, they would fall off the edge or be eaten by monsters.

Today, people criss-cross the Atlantic in jet aircraft for lunch. Don’t you believe for one minute “never the twin shall meet”.

And never say “never”!!!!!

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 5:28pm | Report comment

Not only is my maths out, but so is my typing! That should read ‘twain’, not twin’!

onside said | November 17th 2008 @ 5:46pm | Report comment

I find all this subjective critisism a bit sad,even though I agree with some of it.

Rugby League is a sport many Australians love to watch, and enjoy playing.

Its frustrating reading or listening to the constant comparison to Rugby Union.

Who cares.Really, what does it matter.There’s room for both codes.And then
some people want to introduce soccer into the equation.What about Hurling.

Its not the fault of Rugby League so few countries play the game. So whats
wrong with a Rugby League World Cup.It beats me why it gets up peoples nose.

Nobody has to watch it. Rugby League supporters seem quite happy with it.
That’s the main criteria isnt it , ‘ Did you enjoy it’.

I think the organisers should place more emphasis on ‘having fun’. It should
be a ‘carnival’ , a celebration of the code. Australia could be more generous
providing players for other teams. Give ‘minnows’ first pick for whatever
reason, ‘my grandmothers sisters stepfathers uncle was born in Samoa”.

Give an indigenous Australian side first pick from the talent pool.

These off the top suggestions are not meant to be belittling or to some how
or other diminish the value of an Australian jersey. But if the RLWC was
a celebration of the code ,then it would have much broader appeal.

Surely the cornerstone of State of Origin is nothing more than a proud celebration of the code

Rugby League should do with the RLWC what the ARL has done with State of Origin.

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 6:02pm | Report comment

Onside,

You speak so sensibly, but to hell with that. I opened the Saturday’s Daily Telegraph, & the only news on the Wallabies/England game being played that night was Danny Cipriani’s new girlfriend Kelly Brook, & how he forked out 90,000 pounds/dollars/whatever for a diamond/brooch/whatever (you can tell I didn’t read the article word for word).

Meanwhile there were some 6 pages devoted to rugby league. I’m jealous as hell. Union has a truer world game, but the insular league dominates the domestic market. And Sledreross is right, union covets league’s club setup, & league covets union’s international set-up.

I like league. I have my heroes from the past. But it makes a lot of sense to me for the two codes to once more merge. That’s not knocking league, but suggesting a practical, common sense approach. It will eventually happen. Perhaps not in my lifetime (another 30-40 years), but it will happen.

Ian said | November 17th 2008 @ 6:29pm | Report comment

Sheek,

I think you’re right about the two codes eventually joining. Quite frankly, it will be the money that eventually dictates. I cannot see both codes continuing to flourish just from a financial point of view. The fact that Union is played internationally, and the RUWC is the third most watched event in the world (after the Olympics and Soccer), in my view will eventually see it triumph. I’m not trying to knock league as there are some fantastic players and State of Origin games are great to watch. However, sooner or later, reality will bite and when it does, League will either go back to being amateur, or merge with Union.

Steffy said | November 17th 2008 @ 7:38pm | Report comment

Union has a very friendly press, rugby doesn’t. Union blowouts are reported as a triumph for the plucky minnows or are witten as forget the result, the triumph is in the minnow teams taking part - rugby just gets labelled as a farce. The rugby haters in the media have been out in force again before and during this world cup. It’s difficult to attract people to stadiums when the haters are busy labelling the whole thing as pointless - although it’s something rugby has had to put up with for over 100 years.

Have Ireland ever beaten New Zealand at union - why are those games not labelled as pointless?

Steffy said | November 17th 2008 @ 7:39pm | Report comment

” the RUWC is the third most watched event in the world (after the Olympics and Soccer)”

Who told you that?

Boris the Mudcrab said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:16pm | Report comment

This is all quite entertaining!
Union Boys venting their anger at the Leagies at having the hide to have a “World Cup” OK its hardly going to knock Soccer off its No1 in the World position, but it still deserves a competition. From what I read, the tournament will be profitable, so whats the harm? Until the RUWC was held in Australia, the relevance of the competition was also questioned, with some scores being as large as 100+ difference.
It must really get up the nose of the Rah Rahs that, apart from the Wallabies, no one gives a flying about the lesser Union competitions. A National Comp lasted 1 year and for atmosphere you should tune into the Shute Shied that is televised on the ABC. The only sporting event in which a bigger crowd can be found at the Lawn Bowls (and out-rated on TV)
Ask any kid about their favourite Union player and they will no doubt quote a ex- league player
One last thing, I hope the games never merge as, quite frankly I find Union boring.

oikee said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:22pm | Report comment

Anyone noticed the crowds at the cricket comp, (aussie) i seen 3 in one stand and a dozen in another.

Ian Noble said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:27pm | Report comment

Steffy

Good Morning a bit cloudy in blighty this am.

82000 at Croke Park to see Ireland v NZ ask them if the game was pointless.

Rugby for both codes gets less press coverage than football. League struggles to get much coverage because there is a lack of good stories and success/failure in the International arena. It is also regrettable that many of the interviewees sound so inarticulate, similar to some football players. Still harking on about the last 100 years, get the monkey of your back, if league was as good as you say it would have taken the world by storm over the last 15 years, instead in England it has gone backwards and as Brian Noble (no relation) remarked “there are serious problems in the SL which need to be addressed urgently”

By the way talking about mis-matches, a semi final win in a WC by over 50 points is a nonsense. At least in Union not anly are semis tense close affairs but also played in front of a full stadium; touts making a killing as demand always exceed supply. League can’t give tickets away!! I am not a hater of League and support Quins RL but the facts speak for themselves.

keeper11 said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:39pm | Report comment

..the salient point to make re this article ‘ the RLWC is a joke’ and its obvious agreement by the vast majority …
it can only ever appear on this ‘reletively’ obscure sports website….it will NEVER be allowed to appear in the mainstream media…

such is the concentration , manipulation and entrencehed sycophantic ‘mates club’ that is the local commercial media
( i.e. news-limited, channel 9/PBL, southern cross radio ..even fairfax etc ) in protecting and supporting at all costs its vested interests in ‘our’ game….league …

…so its no surprise that in todays ‘Telethug’..5 pages on the league test and NO mention of the truly embarrasing 15000 turnout in so-called league heartland sydney….
just the usual fell good, you-beaut ‘leagues never been better’ BS and shameless propoganda that is the sydney commercial media….

….but a club tem loses in a final and its screaming headlines say ’soccer in a crisis’ …….huh..

oikee said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:48pm | Report comment

Ian Noble, that is just being pretty harsh on all fronts. To say only smart people should play sports is showing your utter contemp for the average Joe. We are no longer 1900 england Ian we have moved on, well most of us. Yes we all know that David Beckham is thick as a plank but i will tell you one thing, hes got more money than you will ever have and so he can do as he pleases. As for your Ireland, All-black game , yes great crowd, we would love these in any sport, truth of the matter is that the all-blacks played quite a few second string players to even the match out. All we need in Union now is match fixing.

The Kangaroos go for the throat, its one bet you wont ever lose. As for Nobles comment about super league, all he is pointing out is the fact this league has still got catching up to do compared to NRL. As for super League in England, the last time i looked they had secured a good T/V deal with Sky and expanded the comp, along with having just sold the rights to channell 9 for not only super league, but also the Challenge Cup,,,, If thats going backwoods then i am in heaven.

oikee said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:51pm | Report comment

Dont take it personal Keeper, but the british media is exactly the same for Union, maybe its payback from murdock. All the papers mention in england is rugby Union, thank goodness for the english league lads.

OldManEmu said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:55pm | Report comment

Steffy you cant be fair dinkum. I used to think that Miranda Divine was a nom de plume for some fat old bloke who was just having a good old chuckle making a series of illogical assertions on a weekly basis until I met a woman who worked with her and assured me she was a real person. You are the Miranda Divine of the Roar.

Ireland has never beaten New Zealand at Rugby Union but there have been numerous epic battles including 1992 at Carisbrook. Has the Irish Rugby League team ever beaten the New Zealand Rugby League team?

Rugby League is a great game, nuff said. The Rugby League World Cup is a joke, although a pretty bad one.

Steffy said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:57pm | Report comment

“82000 at Croke Park to see Ireland v NZ ask them if the game was pointless”

I don’t really think any games are pointless but I keep reading and hearing about the rugby league world cup being pointless and a joke. If the people of Ireland were constantly bombarded with articles and reports saying union games against New Zealand are pointless and a joke how many do you think would show up?

Rugby has had over 100 years of sniping from other sports journalists (mostly, but not restricted to union journalists) - it got so bad in England not so long ago that a petition was raised and handed in at parliamnent - the chaps who started the petition wrote a book about their experiences - in reality it diodn’t change anything at all - but it did serve to highlight the hate which the code has had to endure from the media. The average chap in the street won’t read rugby articles in theor papers but he might read articles from feature writers and if they are telling him that rugby is a joke then that’s the impression he will be left with.

Steffy said | November 17th 2008 @ 8:59pm | Report comment

“Ireland has never beaten New Zealand at Rugby Union but there have been numerous epic battles including 1992 at Carisbrook”

There have been some excellent games in the rugby league world cup, what’s your point?

Westy said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:10pm | Report comment

I tire of these articles. Is this the 8th or 9th.? you see it opens up a pandora’s box.. if they are genuine the leaguies have to start somewhere..Club and Colts rugby in Australia. Now this is the joke. …102 to nil..90 tonil…77 to 14 We got a national audience of 60000 to the premier club grandfinal on tv and a crowd of 5000.. It is worse in QLD. We are the code who holds the record for the shortest national club competition …1 year…..RLWC is a joke but so is our domestic game. the leaguies generally do not write disparaging articles about this but i tell you we have developed a bad habit.. we hide behind our international game. Where are we No4 in Australia…and by a fair way…and still hoping league will die…wishing and hoping wishing and hoping . Rejoice in our success..talk about the game …just like the leaguies do. I bet over Half the rugby supporters on this site do not go to any premier club games. I say this with some bitterness. We are battling at this level. We are the joke at times.

netrug said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:23pm | Report comment

Looking at last week’s European Rugby games, the crowd at the Spaon/Germany game in Madrid was 8,000 and the Moldova/Belgium game in Chisinau was 1,500 but I don’t know the other attendances. I was not able to see any of then.

What I was able to see was the Scotland A / Georgia played at Firhill by way of Georgian Public Television. I can tell you Georgia was hopeless against Scotland’s virtual third team. Admittedly, there were a lot of young players in the Georgian team due to the fact that French clubs would not release players. Given how well the Lelos play last year in the RWC, a lot more was expected and still have a long way to go.

The week before I saw the Russia / Spain Moscow game via Russian TV and the standard was quite good. It was probably a little below Super 14 . All the players knew exactly what they were doing ang used a lot of backline moves.

Georgia has the Australian, Tim Lane, as its coach and a Frenchman coaches Russia. Hopefully, this will help raise the standard.

Last European season, I saw games involving Russia, Romania, Portugal and Georgia and all were of a similar nature, all entertaining but a standard slightly below Super 14. So it appears a slow improvement rate is there despite Georgia’s debacle against Scotland A.

There is a move in Europe to get the six nations increased to eight and have promotion and relegation but can’t see the home unions agreeing to that

netrug said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:28pm | Report comment

Scotland A beat Georgia, 69-3 in front of a paltry crowd.

Westy said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:30pm | Report comment

The third Scottish rugby team is the one full of actual Scots………their first squad has got 7 english born/2 Australians/i NZer and aZimbabwean thrown in. Japan has 100000 registered players and thet are basically terrible.Be careful where we go with these articles.We weight our RWC to get a NH in the semis by there by hook or crook.God help them if the Argies come through

Ian Noble said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:30pm | Report comment

Oikee

Couple of points, perception is part of the development of any sport or professional. Beckham is probably an expection, but even Wayne Rooney has had training to improve his interview skills. League is not a joke but it needs to smarten up it’s act.

By the way the RFU have just concluded a new deal with Murdoch which includes more rugby union then ever before, with for the first time the Anglo Welsh cup and First Division rugby. I would like to the demographics of the subscribers to Sky as I suspect Murdochs game plan to break into the untapped AB market who don’t subscribe to Sky.

On Ireland v ABs, Graham Henry confirmed that the team playing was his strongest 15. The 2nd string played Scotland the week before.

Brian Nobles comments are very serious as if the progression of young English players is barred by foreign imports or if there is insufficient money in the game then it will not attract these players to the professional game. The SL is the breadwinner and the owners need to attract good quality players to make the SL exciting and therefore improve the viewing figures otherwise the TV revenue will decrease. Difficult balancing act in the short term fix with foreign players against the longer game plan of bringing through English talent. Some of whom are attracted to Union because of the bigger pay packets and greater International exposure, Ashton and Myler at Northampton and the young lad at Newcastle whose name I have forgotten at the moment of young players being enticed from league not the established stars. Some have not managed to convert such as Walker at Gloucester, but the chances of conversion are greater at that age than later; interesting times ahead.

sheek said | November 17th 2008 @ 9:38pm | Report comment

Australia has a wonderful reputation of being very good at a broad variety of sports. But dig beneath the surface, & our supposed virility is a little questionable.

Our most successful Olympics sport? Swimming, which is basically middle-class white kids domain. More countries are enjoying success & competitiveness in this sport, but it ain’t like track & field athletics, where we basically suck.

Cricket? Tests played by 10 Countries, including those true world powers Bangladesh & Zimbabwe! We used to be somebodies in Tennis. Again, basically a middle class white kids domain. Until European poor kids realised they could belt the pants off the spoilt western brats if they were prepared to train twice as hard.

Rugby League? Realistically, there’s never been more than 4 competitive countries play this game. How can you get excited by your heroes when there’s so little international opposition? It’s even worse in Australian Football. We can carry on all we like about the Barassis & Whittens, but they only ever played against their fellow countrymen.

Rugby Union? More traction here, there being a genuine ‘first 5′ (Australia, NZ, SA, England & France) & a ’second 5′ (Argentina, Italy, Wales, Ireland & Scotland). You need a combination of forward power & backline dexterity in this sport. We’ve more often had more of the latter & less of the former. And we’re only occasionally “top dog̶

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November 17th 2008 @ 7:24am
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The Rugby League World Cup is a joke

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By LeftArmSpinner
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