Is Australia’s sporting landscape too overcrowded?
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By Adrian Musolino, 23 Aug 2009 Adrian Musolino is a Roar Expert
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- A-League, A-League expansion, AFL, AFL expansion, Australia, Frank Lowy, Gold Coast, NRL, Super 15, Tri Nations, V8 Supercars, west sydney
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A Brisbane supporter celebrates after the AFL Round 21 match between the Brisbane Lions and Port Adelaide Power
The depth and breadth of our sporting landscape never ceases to amaze me. On Saturday alone you could have watched Ashes cricket, NRL, AFL, A-League, Tri-Nations, V8 Supercars and the like on the box. With codes undertaking one of the most aggressive expansion phases in Australian sporting history, can this be sustained?
It is a fascinating time to watch the relative fortunes of the codes in what could prove to be a decisive phase of our sporting history, and it says a lot about the importance of sport to Australia’s makeup that we are able to sustain such a variety of codes and leagues in a country with a modest population of just over 21 million.
Compare that to countries with a similar variety in sporting tastes and breadth, the USA with around 300 million and the UK with 61 million, and you can’t help but be impressed.
But the acid test will be in the next decade and you have to wonder how the codes are going to fund their expansions.
Australia’s population growth rate is just over 1%, migration rates aren’t overwhelming, and economic growth, GDP rate, is a modest 2.5%
Considering this expansion phase is seeing codes move into regions in which they don’t have a substantial supporter base already, how are the codes, already suffering from the effects of the global financial crisis, going to cope with this challenge?
They have been forced to follow one another into the same expansion strategies so as not to miss out in the long-term, yet all the indicators show that codes struggle mightily in foreign territories.
Even the strongest, most economically sound code in the AFL took years to establish their franchises in Sydney and Brisbane.
In an interview with The Sydney Morning Herald, Frank Lowy reiterated the need for the FFA to continue down the path of expansion and the need for a promotion and relegation system.
But in this highly competitive and fierce market, promotion and relegation would be the death of the A-League.
Imagine Gold Coast United relegated to a lower division, let’s say the B-League.
Without the substantial, hardcore football supporter base on the Coast, punters can simply switch memberships and season tickets to the Titans or the AFL team.
There is too much variety in the sporting landscape for the A-League to weaken franchises in such ways.
The crowds for Gold Coast United and North Queensland Fury have been woeful, AFL crowd figures and television ratings in Sydney still fluctuate, Super Rugby will struggle to field deep, competitive squads once Melbourne joins Super 15 and the NRL has few possible expansion options.
All the codes are in for a rough patch in this expansion era and they need to be on their game to minimize the losses.
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Michael C said | August 23rd 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
I’d suggest that other nations are not crowded enough (in a sporting sense).
Australia has the wonderful outcome of more sponsorship/broadcast rights money being spread more evenly across more sports and more participants than other nations where the very top players are paid way, way, way too much.
However, the problem comes with unrealistic benchmarking. The HAL never can compete with the EPL. Expectations need to be within real ranges. And if the league has to be just a development/retirement league reliant more on individual benefactors than huge gates – - so be it.
And for now – we should help the growth internationally of cricket, AFL, rugby etc in countries where the sporting landscape is a little TOO sparse.
Dave said | August 23rd 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
I think other countries will be improved with the spread of cricket , AFL and rugby league. Another thing other countries can learn is paying players what they are worth and running clubs/team within your means.
Koala Bear said | August 24th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
And for now – we should help the growth internationally of cricket, AFL, rugby etc in countries where the sporting landscape is a little TOO sparse.
You’re dreaming again MC….
~~~~~~~~
KB
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
no hes not look at the growth of cricket all around the world.
also kudos to Bev for making the world a better place.
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2009/08/22/110945_gold-coast-sport.html
Bev heads PNG bid for NRL
sydboz said | December 20th 2010 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Growth of cricket? It’s dying in the very places that have been it’s linchpins for so long, such as Australia, England etc etc. In Sri Lanka, South Africa, West Indies etc same story, the crowds are dying. Cricket’s only saving grace is that they have India under the thumb but the truth is football is growing fast there and multi billion dollar owners are now owning football clubs in not just the EPL but also in the Indian Football league and Sepp Blatter stated that growth in India is a key facet of FIFA’s growth objectives, so hang on to your hats. Cricket growth? No chance. I doubt anyone even cares about next years one day world cup, it’s doesn’t count for anything.
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Oh god groan…. MC I hope you are writing that tongue in cheek… you want other nations who have a smaller handful of sports, albeit proper world sports, and then are interested in a more normally proportional way in a range of other social and artistic passtimes to adopt a bunch of additional silly colonial games just so they can enjoy the same over-saturation of sport in their cultures as we have here???
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
The are not silly colonial games
Pippinu said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
All the football codes are inherently colonial (although less so for American, Gaelic and Australian Football).
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Granted Pip, I’ll give you that point. My issue with MC’s comment was broader. American and – particularly – European citizens (as you would know) have a more balanced set of passtimes, with less sport but more other things. Whereas we are CRAZY oversaturated with sport as a nation. In our psyche I mean. I was objecting to MC’s view that we should inject more sports into cultures that are much better balanced than we are.
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
we are not oversaturated with sport. We have a lifestyle which allows many choices. people oversees take sport a lot more seriously than we do. Our advantage is our sporting culture is more sophisticated than other countries.
True Tah said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Plus we have the weather and landscape which promotes this.
If you need proof, head to the UK and wait for a sunny day (can take a while), and watch the local lads strutting around topless. Its clear that in Australia we have more access to the sun, have a far better diet and exercise a lot more.
Dave1 said | October 29th 2009 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
We are defiantly not oversaturated with sport and are interested in other things
http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/a-nation-of-armchair-sporting-fans-the-numbers-dont-add-up/2009/10/19/1255891774711.html
“A nation of armchair sporting fans? The numbers don’t add up..”
“…….BARELY one in five Australians is a keen sports fan, and little more than half are sports enthusiasts at all, says a pay-television lobby group, somewhat exploding one of our favourite national myths.
Further, few football matches have the national significance they claim, says the Australian Subscription Television and Radio Association. The AFL grand final, for instance, attracted 30 per cent fewer television viewers than the Masterchef Australia finale…….”
megatron said | August 23rd 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
They are going to bleed money in West Sydney and Gold Coast isn’t big enough for the AFL, NRL and A-League
Corey said | November 24th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
I think Australians love their sport, contrary to Dave1 and the Age’s claim (i hate survey results because how do they come to that conclusion, they never asked me of anyone else I know), and this is shown by our newspapers, we have the backpage (sport), but how often does the backpage become the frontpage. I used to work in an airport and many Europeans said “you can tell when your in Australia by the newspapers,” they continued on, “there is sport on the front and back pages.” So we are mad about our sport, but I must say I am confused when it comes to our ability to show up to games. People love their sport but do not necessarily go to the games, thats the best part of the sport. Soccer gets sold out crowds in England and Germany on average- SOCCER!!!! Possibly the most boring team sport to ever watch. Why can’t Rugby League or AFL do that- i know AFL do pretty well- but our products are by far the greatest (yes I am a one-eyed fan) in the world and we don’t even turn up to them.
Dogs Of War said | August 23rd 2009 @ 11:58am | Report comment
I have no doubt there are going to be some big losers out of all of this. The NRL landscape in Sydney will change, with the new AFL club taking sponsorship dollars off some of the NRL clubs, forcing some to the wall. NRL needs the next TV deal to be one that delivers some much needed dollars, or else it will start bleeding players to other codes, and other countries which they just can’t compete with.
While I have no doubt that the AFL will bleed money in it’s 2 new areas for quite some time, and maybe even put pressure on the existing franchises in the markets (Swans/Lions), who may find there supporter base reduced as supporters jump onto the new teams that they identify with more. And with the money going to the new franchises, what does this mean for teams in Melbourne? Will the AFL bail them out, or ask them to merge with these new franchises, trying to add some history to them, like they did with the Lions?
I think the worst thing for AFL, is the cost of running a franchise a significantly higher than the other codes, which means these new franchises have to be a success, or they will just be a money pit that hurts the code for a long time. It didn’t take the ARU long to lose it’s warchest, and the AFL faces the same reality if things don’t pan out like they think they will.
Soccer seems to be going too hard with expansion, and I am not sure Australia soccer has the depth, nor money to maintain a quality product.
And Rugby Union? Well I think plenty has been said about that, though extending the Super season is a step in the right direction.
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
The AFL will be alright because it has the money to finance its expansion and the NRL will be aright because it keeps getting bigger every year.
Brett McKay said | August 23rd 2009 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
Adrian, we’ve all discussed at length whether the Gold Coast might quickly become overcrowded, but I think you’ve raised some very valid points here.
But are we happy if natural attrition is the solution??
Face Up said | August 23rd 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
RU will completely become a 7s code. Cheap and easy to run.
Pippinu said | August 23rd 2009 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
In a prosperous growing economy, it’s less of an issue.
I know it’s hard ot make comparisons with the US, because it’s such a massive economy and huge population, but widespread prosperity allows the general population to dabble in half a dozen big professional sports, and they do it gladly without people worrying whether hockey is intrinsically better than football, and vice versa.
In 20 years time, the Gold coast’s population having surpassed that of Adelaide’s, we might look back on these discussions and conclude that we were silly not to think that three professional football clubs couldn’t survive there in the long run.
Also, looking at the Gold Coast scenario, the economics of each club will be based on slightly different principles.
The Titans have the advantage of the larger supporter base in the area – and that won’t change in a hurry – it probably will never change.
GC17 will have support from the AFL for at least the next 25 years – all driven by good TV revenues – as long as they stand up – the new GC club will stand up (and one drives the other – the two are inextricably entwined).
GCU, well, they have Clive Palmer and the holy grail of the ACL – as long as he remains alive – the GCU will live (even if they have the lowest support of the three).
Once he departs this world – the future of GCU will rest with the beneficiaries of his will, and if the movies are anything to go by, such people are rarely known for their spirit of generosity.
Timmuh said | August 23rd 2009 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
What may well happen is that the cost of running some of these organistions, an AFL club espeically, may stagnate over the next decade or so. There is no reason why it has to cost a bare minimum of $20m to run a domestic sporting club in Australia, and the rapid growth in costs may well not be seen once the AFL have to put major funds into West Sydney and Gold Coast to keep them afloat in the first decades of their existence. This is a big issue for the AFL, who appear to have greatly underestimated the task in western Sydney in particular. That could be a 30 years, $1 billion exercise before it reaches the sort of levels of income made by the struggling Melbourne clubs (but that is still a better investment than Tasmania or Canberra, which can never reach those levels or in Tasmania’s case provide new followers and new money in decades to come.) WS won’t affect the Swans too much, the Swans don’t have much support in Sydney’s west anyway.
The NRL, in contrast, has a much smaller expense base but already has as many cubs struggling as the AFL does. With pokies a bigger part of the equation in NSW, and likely to be cracked down on, some of the revenue streams are harder. That can perhaps be compensated for somewhat by driving a largr “membership culture” in rugby league, but as the crowds are not as big the memberships are not likely to reach Collingwood or West Coast proportions.
The AFL can react by cutting spending and staying a fully professional league wih good salaries, the NRL can’t cut (or even stagnate) without running the risk of losing a swathe of its talent pool (to rugby, or to the UK). On the other hand, the NRL is not looking serioualy at Adelaide or Perth at this point, and doesn;t have the same future outlays ahead of it as the AFL does.
Both those codes face big issues, both can be overcome without losing clubs, but they may need to look at getting smaller in some ways to maintain their presence in others. So long as both put the game ahead of the dollars, they can ensure all clubs survive. If the money gets too important and clubs start getting killed off again (as in North Sydney or Fitzroy) the two dominant codes might well find they lose fans to the other sports and the cash declines anyway.
The big question for the A-League is whether attendances can hold up, and getting themselves on to free-to-air. Being pay-TV exclusive costs them dearly, with only about 35% of the nation able to watch the games on TV winning new fans for the league is difficult. There is a big latent support for soccer, turning more of that into support for the local product is their challenge.
mahony said | August 23rd 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
It is overcrowded and something will have to give. All codes will win some tactical battles and loose some. Likewise all codes will win some strategic battles and loose some. Ultimately rationalization will ‘shake out’ across the landscape and there will be one big looser IMO – rugby union. AFL and NRL will need to rationalize the most, but they have a lot to rationalize (financially and culturally). The growth player will be football (and not just the A-League) in the long term and globalization (and a FTA deal) will continue to transform it for generations.
Robbos said | August 23rd 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
As my teenage daughter said to me ‘is the guy who invented the internet still alive?’.
As some of my esteemed AFL colleagues have been keen to bring up, loyality, history & tradition in following your local club in your chosen sport is important. However time moves on.
With my involvement with football on the local amateur level, I meet a lot of football people who don’t follow the HAL, but has their favourite RL side & I’m sure the same remains all around the country football people following a RL or AFL club.
However, I do notice that fans in the A-league are lot younger than those who go to the RL. I’ve also noticed alot of the younger media people are not alienated to football like alot of the older media people.
So in 20 years time, their will be many who has only known the WS or GC side in the AFL competition and the 2 Sydney sides HAL & they will choose their sport of choice to follow & have a local team to follow.
I never supported the NSL before & even though I was football through & through, I followed the mighty Dragons. But with the advent of the HAL I see myself seeing less & less RL. I know many like me.
Dogs Of War said | August 23rd 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
So what are you going to do in winter when there is no HAL on? It’s not like it’s a great time to go outside and do stuff, unless you like it cold.
While HAL occupies the summer season, there will be a good crossover of supporters who also follow other codes.
Robbos said | August 24th 2009 @ 6:40am | Report comment
Dogs,
What off season? The big thing with football is that while the local scene is small in comparison to AFL & RL, it is growing & to a stage where it is my preference. The presence overseas is massive, something the other codes don’t have apart from Rugby, but even Rugby pales insignificance.
The HAL runs from August to March, then we have Aussie clubs in the ACL from March to June, the period of April-May is my favourite time of year with all the finals in Europe & the leadup to premiership in most of the big footballing countries.
Then every other 2 years, the Socceroos are involved in either the World cup (doesn’t need the socceroos involvement to get my interest, but when they are it’s huge) or the Asian Cup. So, yes not much time for much else.
But don’t get me wrong I see follow the Dragons & the Wallabies (attend 1 live game at least every year). Just the passion not as strong as before. I still also follow Test cricket.
Dave said | August 23rd 2009 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
There’s plenty of young people who like rugby league. That s why crowds and ratings are up and the grand final sold out in less than day for the first time. Rugby league continues to increase in popularity.
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Great sarcasm – thats gold!
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
its not sarcasm.
True Tah said | August 23rd 2009 @ 4:11pm | Report comment
Robbos
there were heaps of young people at the Eels-Tigers game on friday night.
Robbos said | August 24th 2009 @ 7:21am | Report comment
True Tah,
I’m not saying youngsters don’t follow other codes. I’m saying a bigger % the crowds at the A-League matches are young than in the other competitions. Because, as mentioned the older people are set in their ways, their traditions. As a kid I loved all sports, I followed Derby in English football (they were strong then), the dragons & loved NSW in the SOO, I also loved the Wallabies in Rugby (my first NT shirt was a Wallabie jumber), massive Test & one day cricket fan (only watch one dayers now at WC time), also loved my tennis & swimming. Many football people (who play & love the game & have overseas teams) do not follow HAL sides, because they have no time & still have strong feelings towards their NRL OR AFL sides.
Noticed I had no NSL side, these days the kids will have their SFC or MV (also the socceroos) as well as their Parramatta or Western Bulldogs, but as they get older, these kids who I call football people will tend to lean towards the game they love. & follow their local team (CCM or PG)
Redb said | August 24th 2009 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Robbos,
I dont think the HAL has a mortgage on youngsters in the crowd, they may appear to a greater percentage but then again we are talking about small crowd numbers.
At AFLgames there is a wide spread of age groups with heaps of kids amongst the crowd, the AFL crowds are substantailly bigger though and more even in age distribution.
In other words I wouldn’t assume that the HAL has the kids who will grow into fans and make up the bulk of sports goers in the future.
When people talk about multi- generational support look no further than an AFL crowd.
Redb
Robbos said | August 24th 2009 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Redb,
You missed my point, but yes a bigger % of followers of football are youngsters, they don’t have a larger % of youngsters following football.
There is a large % of participation rate of football players & admistrational people who are football people, but they don’t follow the HAL, because like me they never followed a local competition like the NSL & either are followers of the teams in Europe or follow other sport like NRL & AFL. My assistant coach talks great football tatics (also has 5 kids playing football) with me but nerver goes to the HAL games & Manly is his team, what he has done all his life.
But in 20 years time, these same people who were once kids will have also followed SFC as well as
Manly.
There is alot of people in football who follow other sport because their sport had no following in their youth.
This is what I’m trying to say.
Redb said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Robbos,
The point I’m making is that in quantum the HAL does not draw more kids to its games.
HAL game – 10,000 crowd, say 50% are kids = 5,000 kids.
AFL game – 30,000 crowd, there would easily be 5,000 kids in attendance.
Redb
Davos said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
IMO, the AFL has the mortgage on the kids, it cost $7.50 for a child up to 13 to watch live an AFL game, compare that to $17.00 for A-L or RL .
It gets even cheaper with the family (2 adults) and up to 5 kids, it’s the cheapest by far. total $47.00
Compare that to A-L and RL, it doesn’t.
Lewie said | August 24th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
if a kid plays for a junior Rugby League team in Sydney, he is given a card that allows him to attend any and every regular season NRL game.
Many Sydney League teams do a family deal for approx $40-$45.
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Kids in a world culture that is highly interconnected and (dare I use the term) globalised may no longer be satisfied with a code like AFL as the primary part of their sporting diet. I think we are seeing a permanent shift in the playing field – if you’ll excuse the pun – with technologies now widely available that allow people to follow… that is REALLY follow… teams and clubs that are not only those which are down the road or up the tram-line.
PS: Younger kids are often dragged along by feral parents. Its what they do when they become teens and have independent control over their pocket-money that becomes interesting.
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
.Kids now are not like it was in the 70′ and 80′s. they are not watching match of the day on the ABC like we used to
The ABC doesn’t show on Saturday’s like it used to rugby union, soccer, Gaelic football, baseball, golf, snooker, hockey and athletics. Kids are no longer exposed to these sports.
Australians kids follow rugby league and AFL.
So called Globalisation hasn’t done anything in sport. The dominate sport in countries have just became bigger, e.g. the NFL in America and the EPL in England
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
a big % of a small crowd are young? That doesn’t mean anything. There are more young people at NRL games than A-league games.
Pippinu said | August 23rd 2009 @ 2:02pm | Report comment
mahony
Firstly, it’s “lose” and ‘loser” (not having a go at you, but every 2nd blogger appears to have trouble with the spelling of this very common word, and it can make discussion quite ambiguous if we’re mixing up the words “lose” and “loose”).
It’s true that footbal might be a long term winner – but to be honest, there is zero evidence of that happening right now as we speak.
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the main AFL metrics – but they are in a game of their own when compared to the A-League.
And the NRL, despite being battered from pillar to post off the field, probably have the very best set of figures they’ve ever had in their 101 year history.
Union is in a unique situation (strong international presence, but no national club comp), however, all of the Force, the Reds and the Waratahs get much bigger crowds than the A-League equivalents (although the Fox figures might be very close to each other). At the NT level, the Socceroos have probably taken over from the Wallabies, although, as we saw with the 80,000 strong crowd last night – a rugby game agaisnt the All Blacks will attract a bigger crowd and more interest than most games the Socceroos will play in their Asian qualifiers.
Football’s participation rates are more than just about every sport combined – but to be honest, they have been up there for decades, and it’s gradually dawned on me that it doesn’t really mean all that much, because:
1. pretty much all kids are playing some form of under 12 soccer at one stage of thier lives or another, and it doesn’t necessariily translate to anything long term;
2. participation rates have been massive in the US for decades now – but what has it meant at the professional level? The MLS languishes well behind the other professional sports (even if it and the NT has made great strides in that time); and
3. American Football has participation rates around the zero level – and yet as a professional sporting comp, it’s right up there in world terms on most indicators, sitting comforably alongside the EPL.
So in all this sort of analysis, people have to try and put their own personal wishes and desires to one side if they want to do some fair dinkum cyrstal ball gazing.
In the numbers that really matter (the ones the generate the dollars) – the AFL and the A-League are at such different levels that it’s silly to talk of the two in the same breath.
Might that change in decades to come? yeh, maybe, but don’t bet the house on it until you’ve had a chance to compare the next TV deals (if there is a narrowing of the current gap, it will be at the margins).
GaryGnu said | August 23rd 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Pippinu,
There is a little more to the RU figures than just the single Bledisloe match in Sydney. I would caution in relying on the one game as it is the exception rather than the rule. Across the spectrum of National Team matches I suspect that Football would line up pretty well against Rugby Union.
If you look at last years Sydney Bledisloe it is illustrative. Australia hosted two Bledisloe matches last year, one in Brisbane which was massivley oversubscribed and one in Sydney which I don’t think sold out or if it did it was at the very last minute. The simple supply and demand equation diminished interest in the Sydney match, those from interstate (Qld) had a closer match to attend and those who often come from NZ decided to spend their hard earned on a trip to Hong Kong instead. Apparently the price of those unused tickets had to be dropped to sell in Aust. I found it a little contrarian that in an effort to extend the TV revenues from Wallaby matches JON starved the goose that was laying his golden eggs. (He didn’t kill it though)
However, the real story about RU interest is the figures for the non Bledisloe matches. I believe they have dropped dramatically in the last 9 years, even to the extent that the “2nd” Sydney Wallaby games have been moved from Homebsh to SFS as the demand is not there to fill the larger stadium.
Luke W said | August 23rd 2009 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
In fairness though Pip, the A-League is much better poised to win over the masses of football participants than the NSL was. I agree that maybe there is no correlation between a codes participation rates and its attendance and support rates, but common sense says to me that someone who plays a sport is more likely to enjoy it and attend matches.
On another note, I play football in D Grade as a classic right wingback, and everyone in my team is a football fan, but not necessarily A-League fan. I am starting to think that the A-League’s biggest competitor isn’t the NRL or AFL, but rather the EPL. But, it is easier to win those sort of people over, and all it needs is the A-League to continue to improve in quality year in, year out.
Pippinu said | August 23rd 2009 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
GG
people will have a better idea about rugby than me – I was trying to offer an analytical view across the four codes and make it known that it’s not really all that clear cut that the A-League will sweep all before them (and many football fans think precisely along these lines, not just Mahony, but Craig Foster has an article in the SMH saying precisely that).
Luke
I would agree with you that it makes intuitive sense that a game that attracts far, far more partiicpants than the other football codes combined will naturally have a huge competitive advantage.
But the indicators from the last 25 years just doesn’t support that conclusion where it counts the most – on the bottom line, nor does the experience in the US.
Indeed, I mentioned recently that the ABS shows the following sports as being the hightest participants sports: aerobics, walking, running, swimming, golf and tennis (soccer comes next, and the other football codes are nowhere to be seen).
Now I ask you honestly – is there any advantage to being grouped with “sports” like aerobics, walking, running and swimming?
Also, as far as team sports go, netball must be right up there as well – but is anyone making predictions that the netball national comp is about to take over?
Also, we can look at a country like Malaysia, where football is the number one sport by a country mile, and yet both their domestic comp and national team has been a basket case for decades.
The obvious response is that the FFA is now far more professional and WC qualification will continue the forward thrust.
I think both those statements are correct, but would also add:
1. it’s far too early to assess whether the FFA has indeed brought the game to a position where its long term success is guaranteed. For example, the TV rights deal was better than what existed previously, on the other hand only a fool would argue it was any great shakes (in terms of the overall dollars); and
2. If long term success rests substantially on making the WC every four years – that’s a very shakey foundation. The US has made the WC consistently since 1990 (about to become six consecutive WC finals), and while that has clearly assisted in bringing the game forward in that country – you’d have to say in comparison to the other professional games, it has been a pretty marginal progression.
I say all this honestly (recalling I’m a Victory member), that the indicators that really matter, those with dollar signs next do them, to not show that the A-League is on the verge of sweeping all before them.
Robbos said | August 24th 2009 @ 6:57am | Report comment
While the NFL is definately up there in rank alongside the EPL as far a local competition, as a matter of fact it probably surpasses the EPL as far as crowd figures. And while the superbowl as a event is also quite big worldwide, though small in comparison to the Champions cup final worldwide. I can honestly say I don’t know who won the superbowl last year or name you the star of the show. I know Bruce Springsteen played at half time.
The NFL is similar to the AFL (only the AFL hasn’t got the whole country) in that both sports are massive in their own country, they have very little outside of it. The Superbowl gets worldwide attention but that’s about it.
Lewie said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
that says more about you than what it does about the NFL
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
I know who won the super bowl but i dont know who won the champions league
Pippinu said | August 24th 2009 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Robbos
I don’t follow the NFL either – I just understand the massive size of it on any number of measures.
I’m simply making the point that even with zero participation rates, the NFL absolutely dominates the largest sporting market in the world.
Robbos said | August 24th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
That’s exactly what I’m saying Pip, outside the Superbowl, the NFL while being massive in the US has little worldwide appeal. Maybe as being who they are Americans, they don’t need it.
Mushi said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Yep I think they are happy keeping their 300m person 14 trillion GDP core market as the focus and having the international markets as cream.
The epl has no choice but to get as much overseas support as possible
Lewie said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:19am | Report comment
NFL is extremely popular worldwide.
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
I do think Lewie’s point, though overstated, does bear some examining. We are quick to equate AFL and NFL. But they are quite different in that the world knows of NFL’s existence, the name of a few teams, the SuperBowl, and some of the more basic rules. Whereas AFL doesn’t even exist to 99.999% of the world.
Lewie said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Ghost, that is not my point. It was not meant as a crtitique of the status of AFL. And there is nothing overstated about it.
The NFL is very popular throughout many parts of the world. In many European countries it enjoys considerable support.
This is not about me sticking up for the merits of American Football, though i do enjoy it, but rather a correction to what i perceive to be a theory that seems particularly popular amongst soccer fans on this website; that the NFL, which dwarfs the EPL for attendances, is only popular within the USA. Just because a handful of soccer fans on a blog website dedicated to sport don’t think it’s popular, doesn’t make it true. There’s more lies and inaccuracies recorded on this one website than the Daily Telegraph could ever hope to match.
Ghost said | August 24th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Fair enough. But just as what you write is relevant to football fans so it should be to AFL fans who can sometimes see the NFL as a kind of “blood brother”.
Redb said | August 24th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
The AFL and NFL comparison is just an example of where a sport can exist without major international competition. They are both indigenous games.
Redb
Ted Skinner said | November 29th 2010 @ 7:34pm | Report comment
Here’s something on world’s favourite sports for 2005.
It notes the NFL Super Bowl is the world’s most watched sporting event but 98% of its audience comes from North America.
Cricket is even more insular>
http://www.exchange4media.com/e4m/media_matter/matter_010406.asp
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Gridiorn is big in Japan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football#Outside_the_United_States
In Japan, the X-League is a professional league with 60 teams in four divisions, using promotion and relegation. After the post-season playoffs, the X-League champion is determined in the Japan X Bowl. There are also over 200 universities fielding teams, with the national collegiate championship determined by the Koshien Bowl. The professional and collegiate champions then face each other in the Rice Bowl to determine the national champion.
katzilla said | August 24th 2009 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
‘then face each other in the Rice Bowl to determine the national champion.’
Your having a laugh aint you?
Dave said | August 24th 2009 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
as funny as any of the other bowl names like
Fiesta Bowl
Orange Bowl
Rose Bowl Game
Sugar Bowl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_bowl_games
Davos said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:12am | Report comment
Could Football’s drop off rate from juniors in the past be summarized as having a limited or difficult pathway into professional ranks, as compared to the pathways and opportunities that currently exist now, including Australia being a member of the AFC.
IMO I feel that a greater participation rate is already seen with the NYL, as these kids drawn for state league clubs, the talent pool will only increase, coaching is so important at this stage (another discussion).