By Jim Morton
November 10th 2009 @ 2:23am
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Hunt to play just two VFL matches before AFL debut
Gold Coast will take a huge gamble on giving code-crossing recruit Karmichael Hunt just two VFL games in preparation for his AFL debut in 2011.
Coach Guy McKenna has revealed the expansion club is so worried about burn out from back-to-back rugby league and union seasons that Hunt would hardly be seen in Coast colours in [...]
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The Link said | November 10th 2009 @ 7:47am | Report comment
Emphasises even more that the Hunt move is solely a marketing exercise. Off the bench for a few minutes a game in 2011, then perhaps some proper game time in 2012. Perhaps they’ve already made ROI in marketing.
LK said | November 10th 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
It’s funny, I thought this would have been a bigger story than a few throw away lines from the Eels CEO. But anyway…
The K. Hunt situation does seem more and more like a stunt. Geez, I hope he goes ok. It would be hard for a club to live down an exercise like this if he fails.
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
I stumbled on this story in the Age a couple of hours back – I haven’t seen it anywhere else.
It’s a curious story, and I would think if it weren’t for this whole Sheedy thing, it may have got a bit more attention.
Fair enough, he would have been playing for about 15 months straight without a break by the time he catches up with his Gold Coast team mates in May next year – so I think he definitely needs a small break (3 or 4 weeks?)
But that’s still at least another dozen rounds of the VFL to go – a pretty good vehicle for getting up to speed with the game (but a long way off AFL standard).
So he’ll only get two games of VFL footy?
I’m just struggling to make sense of it.
I’ve been saying for a while that playing VFL footy is going to be harder mentally than physically – new game, in front of 50 spectators, but the media will be scrutinising every little thing you do (moreso the bad than the good!) – on top of that, game hardened blokes who never got to play AFL footy will be wanting to show Hunt a few tricks (as would happen in any sport).
As I said, not a physical challenge – but a mental one – going from SOO and NRL finals to the VFL (and not being very good at it) – is quite big thing to come to terms with.
Could McKenna be protecting him from the mental and emotional challenge?
But I can’t help thinking it puts his footy education a long way back.
Let’s be clear here – AFL footy isn’t a walk in the park – and it’s a huge jump from VFL standard to AFL standard – but if you aren’t going to use the VFL as an aid – what the hell are you going to use? Intra-club games?
With a three year deal, 2012 (GC’s 2nd year) becomes Hunt’s one and only chance at a decent crack at it – he’ll need the whole of 2011 just to learn a bit about the game and get used to the pace of it.
It seems a strange decision (if that’s what they end up doing).
Also interesting that McKenna would drop this little bombshell during a pretty big sports story.
Brett McKay said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Could it be Pip that Hunt will play several if not most of the remaining VFL rounds if fit, but GC are just quietly lowering expectations just in case the education and/or recovery doesn’t go well??
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:31pm | Report comment
Brett
good point – it could well be a lowering of expectations exercise – I accept he is going to need a break – all professional footballers need a break, and very few take on the workload that Hunt is attempting.
Clearly, once he freshens up, they must try and get as many VFL games under his belt as is possible.
Michael C said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
apart from anything else, they don’t want to use up all the ‘marketing’ value in the VFL!!!!!
(that then becomes a marketing ploy!)
but, seriously, he’s got a fair bit of body re-tuning to go through and on that point alone, it’d be dangerous to throw him even into the VFL…..his body just won’t be ready for it.
Brett McKay said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
spot on Pip. This way, when he actually plays five or six games next year, they can come out and say “he’s exceeded all our expectations, and done everything we wanted from him and more. We were only counting on him playing two games, but he insisted on furthering his education….”
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:39pm | Report comment
Are you McKenna’s speech writer!
Brett McKay said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
not yet, but for the right price….
Redb said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Good point Brett.
We can all theorise until the sherrin finally drops from the sky in 2011, the fact is Hunt’s journey is as important as the result. the more intrigue and criticism the better.
Redb
Justin said | November 10th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Considering GC17 are paying so far over the odds for this bloke surely they should have said you arent going off to play Union. Its unfathomable that this situation could and quite possibly will occur. They are arent derelict in their duty when he returns, they were derelict in their duty letting him go!
It absolutely hilarious that this may happen. I am gobsmacked.
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
Justin
I’m not sure of the exact financial arrangements – but I’ve got a feeling that the AFL is picking up the tab – and that was probably part of the enticement for Hunt (that he could go off an play a bit of rugby in between).
But yeh – all things being equal – there is just no way anyone would have allowed it!!
Pippinu said | November 10th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
It’s very hard to discuss this sort of stuff objectively, without people wanting to get into pissing contests, but we all want to know the answer to one question: How will Hunt go?
Many from different sides of the divide have simply used the event to cast aspersions one way or the other, and that’s made any proper analysis a bit more difficult than would otherwise be the case.
Andrew Barich, former Eagle, who was raised on both games and actually signed up with the Reds when they were first set up, gave one of the very few viewpoints we have been able to get from anyone who has ever come close to attempting it (although Barich did not end up playing a senior game with the Reds, and in any event, he went the other way).
I think Gerard Whately has given the most circumspect view that I have seen so far: that Hunt will ultimately be “credible” (but he did note a degree of casualness in Hunt’s demeanour, i.e. that he might be underestimating the task).
In the long article I wrote on the subject ( http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/07/31/the-big-switch/ ) I focused more on the 30 or so Irish players from a Gaelic footy background that have come across over a 25 year span, and how only two have been an unqualified success, and even then, each required three full seasons of intensive training just to get to first base.
Last season the Swans signed Canadian rugby international, Mike Pyke, almost the perfect build and athletic ability for aussie rules, especially for the ruck position, he did manage 6 games without setting the world on fire – but that’s a damn good effort given his lack of exposure to the game. We’ll know more about him next season.
This article in the NZAFL site might give us a bit of an inkling about Hunt’s chances:
http://www.nzafl.co.nz/News/HurricanesLearnAussieRulestheHardWay/tabid/239/Default.aspx
It’s about a muck around game of aussie rules between the Hurricanes and a Wellington select team (both out of season).
One can’t draw too many conclusions, but it’s instructive on some levels.
First of all, this Wellington team would be about the standard of a country U18 team – and that would be extremely generous.
The Hurricanes are professional sportsmen – so one would expect them to have the edge on strength, pace and stamina, as I’m sure they did – and yet they got done by this other mob by three goals.
Some of these quotes give us a hint of what happened:
” Hampered by a poor knowledge of the australian code, they were penalised off the park in the first few minutes, until the umpires decided to adopt a lenient approach more suited to such a gala match. ”
” Enough to dismay any purist AFL onlookers, but a style of play well fitted to the Wellingtonian attitude in both Union and AFL – where the biggest cheers from the crowd are always drawn by the big hits. ”
” When the ball did go to hand however, there was no doubt who was the experienced AFL side, with the Tigers slotting the odd goal with contemptuous ease. ”
” In the end the AFL side held out, their superior skill and experience with the leather ball seeing them through for the win in what was an altogether successful gala occasion. ”
Once again, I repeat that this Wellington AFL side would not be much chop at all – the average VFL U19 side would give them an absolute hiding.
But it just underscores what Hunt has in front of him – and if handling the different ball isn’t enough of a challenge – it will not getting pinged by the umps for doing something he shouldn’t be doing, etc.
Incidentally, there’s a great shot of Nonu tucking the ball under his arm and crashing through, and I’m sure Hunt will be able to do that as well – but this scoreline shows that you can’t just rely on that!!
After 15 metres – you have to do something with the ball – that’s the big challenge!!
And while you’re average AFL player knows what he’ll do next even before he’s got it – Hunt won’t have that luxury – he’ll be thinking it through, losing vital milliseconds – that’s the big difference – that’s what we’ll notice in his first few games.
Whether he can get past that by the second season, only time will tell.
LK said | November 10th 2009 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
An interesting post.
Pyke went much better than I thought he would, but my expectations were really low. Part of his success, if you can call it that, is that he knew what his job was and didn’t stray too far from it.
bever fever said | November 10th 2009 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
Personally i never thought that the Hunt signing was a good idea … hope i am proven wrong.
This does not sound good to me … but maybe they are lowering the expectation.
As well as the skills its the running capacity that may well limit him to a back pocket role.
Legs are the first to go… lots of players have great skills but if you cant run at the end of the day you can’t play.
Ian Whitchurch said | November 10th 2009 @ 11:15pm | Report comment
Pippinu,
Couple of points in order,
First, if you buy the sandbagging of a member of the coaching staff, you’re a bigger fool than I’d given you credit for. If the highly-paid kid wants to play, he will, and if he don’t, he wont. And if all he does is roaming around the half-back flank as a designated hitter who runs, tackles and puts The Fear into people, well, so be it.
Second, Mike Pyke did more than OK as a rookie. You forgot to mention the team was confident enough in Mike Pyke to send the actual Swans second ruckman, Jesse White, to the forward line. Oh, and note how while Mumford is a young (if … beefy) #1 ruckman, the newother ruckman is a little … old. Wonder what that says about the Swans brains trusts’ faith in Mr Pyke.
Third, in case you had’nt noticed, not all of Port Adelaide come from SA, and more than a few of the Weagles did not hail from west of the Nullabor. AFL is a game of mercenaries, and has been since the Swans won their name in the 1930s.
Finally, there was this bloke from a league background who did OK in the AFL. Bloke called Paul Kelly, who used to play against Laurie whathisname in Wagga.
Pippinu said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Ian
1. I’m not sure what this point is about “sandbagging”.
2. I don’t know what it says about the Swans’ faith in Pyke.
3. & 4. I’m not really sure what you are trying to say.
Is this in response to something I said on this thread?
Michael C said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
there’s quite a few players who have grown up playing both RL and Aust Footy as juniors, or made mid teens ‘conversions’ from RL to Aust Footy.
I still reckon the Murrumbidgee is the ideal border between Victoria and NSW and that Wagga Wagga is the ideal site for a capital city……and a reasonable blue print for a multi code sporting hotbed.
agreed – it was a big vote of confidence for Pyke to firstly get successive games, and to allow White to go forward, ….., not helped by Hall’s shakey season,….in the wings is Jake Orreal, a tall lanky project player anyway……so, sans Jolly, 2010 will be very interesting to see how Seaby/Mumford/Pyke go. If Seaby fizzles, then we assume Pyke plays minimum 12 games…….but, then….just who is supposed to be the number 1 ruckman???
Pippinu said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
I haven’t seen Pyke play yet – so I can’t comment.
A footballing mate of mine reckons he looked pretty hopeless when he saw him (but he’s an embittered tiges fan).
I went looking for stuff on Pyke on YouTube, but couldn’t find anything apart from his try against the All Blacks, and the grand final sprint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTSoy_sNaDA
Unfortunately, Pyke slipped at the start – so we never really got to see him take them on.
Interestingly, an ex-basketballer with the Saints won the sprint (at around 200 cm) – but I’ll be honest, I’ve never heard of this bloke.
And a 17 year old kid representing the Gold Coast came second!!
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Surely the coach has some idea of where he is going to play and not just “try all positions”.
I am sure that’s not genuine but it makes Mckenna sound like a goose. Gold Coast need a Kevin Sheedy, is Robert Walls available?
Redb said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:53am | Report comment
been drinking too much oikee potion.
Pippinu said | November 11th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Walls already had a stint at Carrara (just before the Bears moved to Brissie).
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
I know his history, I like Wallsy on TV. THough I wasn’t genuine about making him coach.
I don’t put much credence in Mckenna’s words, surely after a few training sessions they would narrow down his positions. Not only is he learning a new game they expect him to play a bunch of positions too.
I am starting to think being an AFL scout is a pretty easy gig…you don’t even have to have any idea what position they could play.
So I think it is either marketing, (have the hype about a game where bums on seats were important not for VFL games) or it’s just a total furpy and he will play as many games as he can.
Redb said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Cant stand Robert Walls smug carlton scum.
Now dont be silly with your comments re McKenna, he has had little time to see what Hunt can do, so it would be absurd to have a ready made positon worked out from a few kick to kicks.
People are probably asking so he giving them something fairly neutral back.
Redb
AndyRoo said | November 11th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
I don’t have any problem with Carlton so I am free to enjoy his little barbs
The only Carlton match I watched this year they were kind enough to choke in the last quarter so that the Lions could go through to the next week of the finals and then for Xmas gave us Fevola.
Seem like nice chaps…. plus I liked David Parkin too
Redb said | November 11th 2009 @ 9:54pm | Report comment
Parkin is a lot better. good speaker, been to a sportsmen night with him. – very good.
Pippinu said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Speaking of marketing, just reading an article in the Age: Sheedy move a big media hit.
Apparently, in terms of syndicated broadcast items, the first 48 hours of the Sheedy story rated only marginally less than the Hunt story – in Sheeds case, it came to a sudden hald with Tiger Woods.
The first 3 days of the Hunt story was worth $7 mill of publicity.
Anything he does now is a bonus.
And speaking of recruits from left field, there’s a bit more on this American dude that Collingwood have signed as an international rookie.
I wasn’t too impressed with the video, but apparently Collingwood had someone in the States ath the time, so they went and visited him there and then, brought him over for two weeks, extended to three weeks, and then signed him up.
He’s 204 cm – which is a crucial bit of info.
His psychometric testing is elite – his agility is elite, his pace ok.
He’s already played three years of professional basketball in the States and Germany, plus he also has a soccer background, and is an ex high jumper.
All in all – it’s something to work with.
Michael C said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
yeah…..we don’t need to worry about recruiting the top 1% of US elite athletes,….or even from the pool of the top 10% of US elite athletes,
somewhere in the range of 30th percentile to 50th percentile would probably do just nicely!!!!!
The big question for those who reckon Aust Footy isn’t marketable etc etc outside of Vicball central……is, what made this guy want to do it??
Michael C said | November 11th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Australian Football isn’t quite so position specific as the Rugby codes especially……(you do realise that jumper numbers are a personal thing rather than position specific!!).
SO, for all the attributes and good will in the world and theoretical planning……..you really don’t know until you get the guy out there.
A lot of the ability to play in different positions/roles is dictated by the ability to ‘read the play’; timing and to find space; i.e. running at the right time to the right place and not getting there too soon, or too late. These things dictate whether he can be a ‘pro-active’ player or not. Otherwise, he might need to be more of a ’shadow’, a ‘run with’ negative player, whether in the backline, or a defensive mid-fielder/close down forward.
Quite often, players are given learning time at the other end of the ground. (which relates to tanking claims ). I remember North Melbourne played young ‘gun’ full forward John Longmire at fullback for season 1989, after he’d debuted as a forward in 1988 (21 goals from 11 games), he played most of his 16 games in 1989 up back, and then – having learned about the “CONTEST” of the fullback vs full forward, he went back up forward and came within 2 goals of being the youngest every player to kick 100 in a season.
[this is why when a Russell Robertson comments "'I'm not saying we tanked, I'm just saying players were played out of position,'" - - - it is quite fine, a coach is perfectly permitted to play guys out of position, as a learning exercise. If that were taken away form a coach with a young developing list, then heaven help sports. North in 88/89 were a young team on the rise, it took until '93 to make the finals.]
So, the whole point is – Hunt, part of the deal IS that he’ll have to learn both what it’s like to be playing the role he plays, as well as the role of his opponent.
oikee said | November 12th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Look, the best thing for the AFL would be him to be a complete failure. If he does succeed, it will just mean more publicity for rugby league, (look how easy it is, anyone league player can do it, blah blah.) We all know that afl players do more miles, but if he gets near the ball he will just mussle other players, he is fearless so players running at him wont bother him. What i am concerned about is if he succeeds, could change the way afl goes about finding players.
I would like the AFL to stick with their giraffes policy. Make them taller, not shorter. Sudanese are perfect.