Is Ablett Snr best never to win Brownlow?
Roar Rookie By Daniel Dufty, 22 Sep 2010 Daniel Dufty is a Roar Rookie
- Tagged:
- AFL, Brownlow Medal, Chris Judd, Dane Swan, Gary Ablett, Gary Ablett Jr, Jim Stynes, Kevin Bartlett, Leigh Matthews, Leigh Matthews Trophy, Ron Barassi, Scott West, Tony Lockett, Wayne Carey
Gary Ablett Senior was a magician on the field for Geelong. His legend continues to live on and for good reason. He achieved so much on the field, yet one individual honour escaped him, one he could never reach, that being the Brownlow medal.
This begs the question: Is Garry Ablett Snr the best player to have never won the award? Possibly, but there are many others which present their own case forward, as some of the unluckiest men not to have not collected the award.
The Brownlow medal is a unique award, yet there have been many which say being awarded the Leigh Matthews Trophy (AFL MVP) means so much more. This is due to the fact the winner is voted by the players themselves, rather than umpires which have their own views on a game.
There is no doubt winning an award chosen by your own peers would be so fulfilling, knowing you have the respect from others in a similar position, and it would mean so much to a player. But still the Brownlow medal with its rich history and long list of winners is still considered the highest individual honour for players in the AFL.
Gary Ablett Snr is only one of many to not have won the award. Let’s have a look at a snapshot of the players who never had Charlie around their necks:
Gary Ablett Snr (Hawthorn/Geelong):
Ablett was a prolific goalkicker and one of the greatest players to have played the game.
Racked up a total of 248 games, kicked 1030 goals and was a spectacular marker of the ball. An unbelievable player during the late 80′s and early 90′s, Ablett Snr sits fifth in the AFL’s all-time leading goal kicking list, is Geelong’s All-Time Leading Goal Kicker, and was voted in 2006 as the greatest Geelong footballer of all time.
He helped the Cats to grand final appearances in 1989, 1992, 1994 and 1995. Holds the record for the most number of goals in a losing grand final team, nine in 1989. Member of the AFL Hall of Fame, the AFL Team of the Century and Geelong Team of the Century.
“Lethal” Leigh Matthews (Hawthorn):
Best player of the 20th century, according to the AFL. Legend in the AFL Hall of Fame, member of the Hawthorn and AFL Teams of the Centuries. One of the toughest AFL/VFL players to have ever played the game. Matthews had a career spanning 332 games in which he kicked 915 goals as a player.
Wayne Carey (North Melbourne):
Carey achieved so much. He was a dual Premiership captain, four-time Club Best and Fairest, seven-time All Australian and in 2001 was named as centre half-forward and captain in North Melbourne’s Team of the Century. Veteran of 272 games with 738 goals to his name.
Robert Flower (Melbourne):
Best known for missing what was to be his first ever grand final appearance in the 1987 finals series after teammate Jim Stynes ran over the mark in Melbourne’s preliminary final match against Hawthorn. Gary Buckenara received a 15metre penalty after Stynes miss error of judgment, leading to a Hawthorn goal and Hawthorn victory, in what was Flower’s last game in the red and blue.
A career which expanded 272 games and 315 goals, Flower was Melbourne’s Best and Fairest in 1977, club captain from 1981-87, Victorian captain, part of the Victorian Team of the Century and Melbourne Football Club Team of the Century.
Others capable of posing questions against Ablett Snr as the best to have not won the award include Ron Barassi, Scott West, Kevin Bartlett, Gary Hocking and Jack Dyer to name a few.
But achievements aren’t everything telling the story of a player as many have missed out on the biggest of prizes, while others have been very lucky, especially premierships.
So is Gary Ablett Snr the best player not to have the award? Many say he is, yet the Brownlow is not an award for forwards and is a midfielder’s best friend. Ablett did play off the wing for a lot his career however.
Tony Lockett is the only full-forward to have won the award, and the next forward looks a while away, but you never know what could happen. Most thought Dane Swan would win the Brownlow in 2010, but it didn’t happen. We don’t know what’s happening in the mind of umpires and results have shown likable players have won the award.
So who would you place as the best player not to have taken home Charlie? In this on-going debate, I place it down to Ablett Snr or Matthews.
The decision is in your hands.
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September 22nd 2010 @ 6:08am
Kurt said | September 22nd 2010 @ 6:08am | Report comment
Great question. Whilst as a Hawks fan I’m biased, I really do think lethal Leigh is the best player never to have won a Brownlow, followed closely by Wayne Carey. Ablett snr was a superstar but he was just a bit too flaky and mercurial to be ranked above those two, plus he never led his team to a flag.
With all due respect to Robbie Flower who was a fine player and a loyal clubman, I just don’t think he was at the level of Matthews, Cary or Ablett.
September 22nd 2010 @ 11:38am
Mick Johnston said | September 22nd 2010 @ 11:38am | Report comment
First up, I am similarly biased having seen a lot of Gary Snr games but being too young to have seen Leigh Mathews play. I disagree with the flaky description, but would concede there was a big gap between his best and his worst. I think that is partly due to the fact that his best was better than anybody else that has ever played AFL football.
When it came to the Brownlow, I think he became victim to his own ability. His best was so good that an ordinary game by his standards could go unnoticed (something I am sure Mathews and Carey suffered from also). While ineligble that year, his 1993 season is an excellent case study. He kicked 124.60 from 17 games (10 times kicking 7 or more goals and 5 times kicking 10 or more) and won the AFLPA MVP, yet polled in only 6 games with only 3 games attracting 3 votes. He actually missed out on votes kicking 10 goals in a losing team.
I also think it is unreasonable to comment that he never led his team to a flag; I’m not sure what more he could have done in the 1989 finals series. His record that year remains unbeaten and I doubt anyone will come close to it. He kicked 27 goals in 4 finals from a half forward flank…enough said.
Carey was an excellent player, but I do not believe was at the same level of ability as Ablett or (from what I have heard) Mathews.
September 22nd 2010 @ 9:55am
BigAl said | September 22nd 2010 @ 9:55am | Report comment
Gary Ablett snr. was never consistent enough to win a Brownlow.
Leigh Mathews has created a zone of his own within football – what with his record as a player, coach, and way more than adequate commentator/analyst.
Considering this, the fact that he never won a Brownlow is neither here nor there !
September 22nd 2010 @ 11:39am
Gibbo said | September 22nd 2010 @ 11:39am | Report comment
i’m a geelong fan so reckon i’m being pretty bloody objective here: Senior can’t really complain about not getting a charlie. One of the best ever? Absolutely. Fairest? I tell ya, you would not want to be dropping into the hole infront of one of his leads. Ferocious attack at the ball, and quite a few times, the man.
September 22nd 2010 @ 1:53pm
Forgetmenot said | September 22nd 2010 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
He definitely was.
But the magic of the Brownlow is that it is only awarded to the best for a particular year, not over the career. Look at Woewodin he was delisted a couple of years after wnning.
September 22nd 2010 @ 2:24pm
Mark Smyth said | September 22nd 2010 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
try
Ted Whitten
Leigh Matthews
Wayne Carey
Laurie Nash
all regarded amongst the greatest of their time
September 22nd 2010 @ 3:49pm
Savvas Tzionis said | September 22nd 2010 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Since 1974 (when I started watchign VFL) there is no doubt that Ablett was the most brilliant player I have ever seen.
But Carey was the most effectively great player ever.
Matthews RARELY played well against Carlton (my team) so he goes down a notch because of that. Then again Carey never played well against Jakovich (but that was because if his ego!!!)
September 22nd 2010 @ 6:40pm
James said | September 22nd 2010 @ 6:40pm | Report comment
Savvas,
As an avid Roos supporter I agree Ablett Snr is the most brilliant player I’ve seen(since 1983), however 6 brilliant moments resulting in 5 goals in a game isn’t going to win a brownlow. The umpires give votes to players like Judd because he consistently gathers quality possessions and is behind a large number of goals.
That’s why it is hard for forwards and defenders to win the award. It’s much harder to be consistently getting the pill if the ball is not in your area.
As for the Carey/Jakovich dual. Jakovich won about 50% of the battle and that is considered so good against the King people start to think/remember that he(Jako) won most of them. Sorry but that’s not true.
Overall I’m still amused that an award given by the men in white who are screamed at every game is so revered. Surely the AFLPA award is more highly sort after by the players. great debate though!!
September 22nd 2010 @ 4:35pm
Brian said | September 22nd 2010 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Mathews and Carey way ahead of Ablett Snr. Ablett had class but most of the time he wasn’t even the best full forward going around (Lockett, Dunstall) never mind the greatest player ever. I didn’t see much of Matthews, Carey definately the most effective player of the last 20 years
September 22nd 2010 @ 4:45pm
Steve said | September 22nd 2010 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
All I see here is modern players of our game. The best and fairest player I ever had he privillage to watch was Bruce Doull from Carlton. He was a star playing at half back or cebtre half back andmade way for the modern running back man. I otice in all the lsts mentioned not one is a backman. The flying dormat was a champion.
September 22nd 2010 @ 5:10pm
Savvas Tzionis said | September 22nd 2010 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
Well, you have showed me up for my memory lapse and for falling for the hype around the modern players.
I always maintained that Bruce Doull was a BETTER player than Leigh Matthews because he was NEVER beaten (except during the 1980 final series).
Not only that, when Leigh Matthews had Doull lined up in his sights to flatten him with a vicious elbow, Doull made a fool of him by side-footing him easily.
I was livid at the time.
Matthews was a thug on the field.
September 22nd 2010 @ 5:21pm
Mister Football said | September 22nd 2010 @ 5:21pm | Report comment
The Flying doormat was truly a marvel, and it’s true, I can’t recall him ever being beaten.
Most of us, especially as kids and young adults, will have our favourites from our own team, primarily because we seem them more often than any other player in the league – so these sorts of comparisons need to keep that in mind.
So I unashamedly wish to mention the player I put above all others: Kelvin Templeton.
He played in a pretty ordinary team and yet won the Coleman medal two years running (78-79), before being moved to centre-half forward in 1980 and winning the Brownlow medal, in what ended up being his last full season of footy before being ravaged by injury.
That speaks well enough on its own, but to see him play live was such a pleasure. He wasn’t flash or exciting like Ablett, nor was he a pack buster like Carey, but he was right up there with them overall.
In a poor team, where the delivery was often ordinary, he was the only one capable of winning a game of footy for Footscray, as a result, he’d often end up with two or three defenders on him, at a time when that sort of thing wasn’t in vogue – and he’d often beat them all!!
He succombed to a very bad injury at the age of 24, and despite trying to come back with Melbourne, he was never the same player, and never regained full fitness.
September 23rd 2010 @ 12:06am
Kurt said | September 23rd 2010 @ 12:06am | Report comment
Yes Kelvin Templeton was a great player but as you say he won the Brownlow in 1980, so not sure he falls within the scope of this discussion.
September 22nd 2010 @ 11:02pm
MadeWT said | September 22nd 2010 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Amazed Carey never won one.
September 26th 2010 @ 3:41pm
Bayman said | September 26th 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
These sorts of discussions always seem to hover around those great players of the last 10-20 years because that’s the period most who can be bothered to respond remember.
Having watched footy since the late fifties I can tell you there have been some guns. Matthews at his best was awesome but, as someone pointed out already, Ablett Sr. was just as lethal as Lethal. I’d go so far as to say he hit harder, more often, than anybody else I can recall in the last thirty years.
Votes, of course, go to the pretty boys in the mid-field mostly, especially these days. I remember when ruckmen used to win the Brownlow nearly every year. I don’t expect many to win it these days. Today, it’s all about stats and touches.
I remember a game at Carlton one day between the Blues and North Melbourne. I was over from Adelaide with some mates and we went to Carlton because out local Adelaide club had reciprocal membership rights. Two things stood out for me.
One was how good Malcolm Blight was at protecting the ball and using his body to keep the Carlton defender away from it. He’d improved a bit since I first played on him at school. The second thing was Bruce Doull running in support of a teammate. It started in the back pocket and he was still there in support when the ball was kicked forward from the half forward flank. In the meantime, three Carlton players had touched the footy and Doull ran in support of all three. He didn’t get the ball but he was there if needed. Five minutes later, he did it again and I realised why he was such a magnificent player – and why some teams are better than others.
I’ll guarantee he got no votes from the umpire but he certainly got votes from me. He was, also, the most balanced player I can remember and a magnificent kick of the footy. Timing was everything.
I can recall a state game against SA when he destroyed his man with perfectly timed, and placed, spoils which always went to a supporting Victorian player. There was purpose in everything he did. As for being beaten, the only time I can recall is when Steve Kernahan kicked some of his 10 goals on him in that memorable state game in about ’83 or ’84.
It further convinced Carlton that young Steve was worth chasing and the man who made the phone call was none other than Kerna’s hero, The Doormat. I’d certainly pay money to see Doull play today – he’d be sensational. If only!