Where should the AFL expand to next?
By matchu, 25 Oct 2011 matchu is a Roar Rookie
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Western Sydney is the latest location to be verified by the AFL as a new expansion market. But where will the AFL go next?
And what will the implications mean for the current competition. Below is a breakdown of the top 20 cities in Australia that have/don’t have AFL teams sorted by population:
1. Sydney, NSW – 4.5 million – two AFL teams.
2. Melbourne, VIC – 4 million -nine AFL teams
3. Brisbane, QLD – 2 million – one AFL team.
4. Perth, WA – 1.7 million – two AFL teams.
5. Adelaide, SA – 1.2 million – two AFL teams.
6. Gold Coast, QLD – 600k – one AFL team.
7. Newcastle, NSW – 500k – zero AFL teams.
8. Canberra, ACT – 400k – zero AFL teams.
9. Wollongong, NSW – 300k – zero AFL teams.
10. Sunshine Coast, QLD – 250k – zero AFL teams.
11. Hobart, TAS – 215k – zero AFL teams.
12. Geelong, VIC – 180k – one AFL team.
13. Townsville, QLD – 170k – zero AFL teams.
14. Cairns, QLD – 150k – zero AFL teams.
15. Toowoomba, QLD – 130k – zero AFL teams.
16. Darwin, NT – 120k – zero AFL teams.
17. Launceston, TAS – 105k – zero AFL teams.
18. Albury, VIC/NSW – 105k – zero AFL teams.
19. Ballarat, VIC – 96k – zero AFL teams.
20. Bendigo, VIC – 92k – zero AFL teams.
By looking at those statistics you can dissect that the AFL has a presence in the top six populated regions of Australia, which is an impressive feat for a competition run solely in Victoria 30 years ago.
Purely looking at those statistics also suggests the AFL’s next move should be either into North Queensland or Central NSW, with the possibility of NSW clubs sharing games in Canberra.
The point of interest that should be taken from these statistics is whether Tasmania deserves an AFL team of their own and why.
North Melbourne has agreed to play two of their eleven homes in 2012 at Bellerive Oval in Hobart for the sole reason of financial gain. Sadly for Tasmanian footy fans, this story is all too familiar across Australia as the ‘travelling Kangaroos’ have attempted this before in Sydney, Canberra and the Gold Coast with none resulting in relocation.
A positive to take from North Melbourne playing Hobart is the simple fact that following North’s departure from Sydney and the Gold Coast, both cities gained AFL teams within five years of the Kangaroos leaving.
This is where it starts to get tricky for North Melbourne; if Tasmania are granted an AFL license sometime in the near future where does North continue to gain money? The Demons have set themselves up in Darwin while Richmond have the monopoly over North Queensland.
Do the Kangaroos move back to Canberra? Do they attempt to set up a presence in central NSW? You would think the Giants and the Swans would have first preference over those areas anyway.
The simple fact of the matter is Melbourne is not strong enough to justify nine teams in a national competition and the sooner Victorian clubs realise this, the sooner they can avoid a Fitzroy situation where the club is virtually non-existent now.
Bellerive Oval is where North Melbourne will play home games for the next few years, and a quick assessment of the grounds will show it is not a extremely impressive venue. Bellerive only seats 16,000 people at the moment, which is no where near enough to justify an AFL being based there.
It would seem an AFL minimum seating capacity for a team based in said city would be 25,000 with both Metricon (Gold Coast) and Skoda (Greater Western Sydney) Stadiums holding that amount respectively. From this information we can set a benchmark of events that must occur to ensure Tasmania get a team.
The people behind the Tasmanian bid must secure funding for an upgrade to either York Park or Bellerive Oval, the team will almost certainly have to spend one year in the VFL before joining the AFL and will probably need to sign up at least 15,000 members before round 1 of their first season.
Teams in Cairns, Darwin, Canberra and Newcastle to follow after the introduction of a Tasmanian team.
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October 25th 2011 @ 6:42am
Lachlan said | October 25th 2011 @ 6:42am | Report comment
Central Coast is actually ranked as the 9th biggest city, with 300,000 and newcastle only has 300,000.
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October 25th 2011 @ 9:48am
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Central Coast is part of Sydney
October 25th 2011 @ 9:51am
Brett McKay said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Me, the residents of the Central Coast will tan your hide for casting such aspertions!!
October 25th 2011 @ 9:54am
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Don’t blame me I’m just going off the ABS
October 25th 2011 @ 10:08am
Lachlan said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Central Coast is most definetly not apart of Sydney.
October 25th 2011 @ 12:26pm
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
It is acording to the ABS where all census information is collated for the Government
October 25th 2011 @ 10:42am
voodoo people said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:42am | Report comment
As far as TV ratings are concerned it is in Sydney metro – for ratings and advertisers the Central Coast IS part of Sydney, so any Gosford based team will be competing with Sydney clubs for exposure, sponsors and fans.
Gosford is a niche market within Greater Sydney, unlike Newcastle and Wollongong which are seperate cities outright.
October 25th 2011 @ 5:52pm
Lachlan said | October 25th 2011 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Well i guess we can count Gold Coast as apart of Brisbane and Geelong as apart of Melbourne then.
October 27th 2011 @ 4:18pm
voodoo people said | October 27th 2011 @ 4:18pm | Report comment
In terms of TV rights, sponsorship and related revenue (ie the things that matter to sports administrators), yes.
October 31st 2011 @ 12:54am
josh said | October 31st 2011 @ 12:54am | Report comment
Tasmania will be the next franchise, its inevitable and it will be a state team because thats just logical compared to a hobart fc for example but the 2nd and last to round out a 20 team comp should really be considered in new zealnd, its 6.5 million heaps of expats, loads of cricket ground suitable for upgrades, both goverments would surely get behind it and it really wont take long for a solid support to dominaqte the country and create a us v aussies attitude.
October 31st 2011 @ 4:17pm
kiwidave said | October 31st 2011 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
4.4 million, most of whom couldn’t tell you how many players there are in an AFL team.
December 25th 2011 @ 12:03am
boltonguy said | December 25th 2011 @ 12:03am | Report comment
No, this is soewhat offensive. It is our game. If they really want a team then they can start up thier own national competition. We need to stop giving them teams in our leagues. The Warriors play Rugby League, one of there favourite sports, so why would there not be enough support for there own national rugby league equivalent, and they shouldn’t be allowed to sing there national anthem if one of their teams makes the final as it is not the kiwi national team playing, a few of them are even Australian. I dont mind that they have teams in our leagues like the warriors and the pheniox but this is our sacred sport as to say. Australian based teams must be a priority.
October 25th 2011 @ 8:19am
The Cattery said | October 25th 2011 @ 8:19am | Report comment
GWS haven’t even entered the comp yet, so a bit speculative to be worrying about further expansion.
The AFL was a 16 team comp from 1995 to 2010, that’s 16 seasons – expect it to remain an 18 team comp for around the same amount of time, at a minimum.
It’s also worth noting that Port entered the comp in 1997, and it remained a 16 team comp because of the merger between Fitzroy and the Bears.
In other words, the AFL might remain an 18 team comp for many years to come, with the only change occurring due to relocation, or if another merger along the lines of Fitzroy and the Bears makes an opening.
But history shows that clubs have to be in absolute dire straits, and completely out of options before something like that can happen, and even then, more often than not, members and fans will take action to ensure no extreme action is necessary.
By the way, a tassie team would sell 15,000 memberships in a microsecond.
The AFL can only consider looking beyond 18 teams in the future if it’s prepared to move towards a true conference system, similar to the NFL – but I really doubt we have the population to support such a system, and you’d think it would need something like 24 teams to make it viable – far too difficult, almost impossible.
October 25th 2011 @ 9:35am
Football United said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:35am | Report comment
why bother with conference system? afl is a few teams off the point where they could play each team once while also having enough games in a season, conference system would destroy any idea of parity again in the afl.
October 25th 2011 @ 9:45am
The Cattery said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Yes and no.
You’d need 22 teams to have 21 rounds with each team playing each other once, still one short of the 22 rounds per annum the comp has had now for 45 seasons.
Excluding the pre-season, the AFL has exactly 27 weeks to play out its season, and it will endevour to use up every single one of those 27 weeks every single time – it’s pointless anyone suggesting that the AFL should use less than the 27 weeks – it will never, ever happen.
The TV rights depend on using up those 27 weeks, and almost just as importantly, you need sufficient games to pay for the MCG and Etihad – so you can forget now about a shortening of the season.
So – you need 22 teams for a 21 round season – seriously, who wants a ladder with 22 teams in it??
Now I’m not advocating a conference system, indeed, I said it would be very, very difficult – but hypothesising a bit, if 50 years down the track the AFL could support 24 teams, say, then you are probably better off having four conferences of six teams apiece – for a host of reasons – that format is much better than having 22 teams in one single league.
October 25th 2011 @ 9:55am
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:55am | Report comment
If it was to come to it 18+ teams I would prefer 2 divisions with promotion and relegation than conferences
October 26th 2011 @ 7:38pm
Lachlan said | October 26th 2011 @ 7:38pm | Report comment
i dont particularly like the cnference system, id prefer the promotion/relegation system, but not sure how we could make it work. The AFL will, in my opinion, have a reserve league in the coming years probably after these tv rights, which would make it even harder for the 2nd tier competitions be sim ilar to the AFL level. And we would have to change the way the drafting systems work, including trading and rookie periods. If one were to happen the conference system would slot in perfectly with the AFL competition since its very similar to the NFL, who have the draft, etc. whereas the soccer league in england dont have a draft system or a salary cap. To be honest the AFL competition is so much better run than any other competition, of any sport, in the world.
Why change it to such a degree.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:06am
The Cattery said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:06am | Report comment
And here is my 24 team, four conference structure for the year 2096, celebrating 200 seasons of the VFL/AFL:
Western Conference:
West Coast
Fremantle
Mandurah
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
Darwin
North-East Conference:
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Cairns
Sydney
GWS
Newcastle
South-East Conference:
Canberra
Albury-Wodonga
Ballarat
Hobart
Geelong
Hawthorn
Metropolitan Conference:
Collingwood
Richmond
Melbourne
Essendon
Carlton
St Kilda
October 25th 2011 @ 2:55pm
Brett McKay said | October 25th 2011 @ 2:55pm | Report comment
I’ll bite Catters – what have you done with North and the Bullies (aren’t they your team?!?) and are you allowed in Launceston any more??
October 25th 2011 @ 2:59pm
The Cattery said | October 25th 2011 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Gone (maybe to Hobart) and gone (somewhere) and Hawks are probably still playing 4 games in Lonnie.
December 25th 2011 @ 12:13am
boltonguy said | December 25th 2011 @ 12:13am | Report comment
I lke it but I dont think that cities like mandurah would be able to compete in sheer numbers of support when you compare it to the market of perth and such. I think that yes it would work but it would have to be a town love affair with the team. and I think a team in Bendigo is much more viable then a team in Albry-Wodonga.
October 25th 2011 @ 8:37am
Wilbur said | October 25th 2011 @ 8:37am | Report comment
Well researched!! GWS already playing 3 games a year (+1 preseason) for next ten years.
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October 25th 2011 @ 9:53am
Brett McKay said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Cairns and Darwin perhaps, down the track, and well after Tassie, but I can’t see Newcastle getting an AFL team in my lifetime…
October 25th 2011 @ 9:59am
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:59am | Report comment
agreed
October 25th 2011 @ 10:47am
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Agreed about Newcastle, interesting that they have changed their junior football from saturday to sunday, in order to attract kids playing that play other codes on saturday, and as a result have had some good growth this year, the central coast juniors have from next year decided to do the same thing.
Also of interest around the Central Coast is that renowned rugby school Knox, entered a couple of junior teams in the CC juniors this season.
October 25th 2011 @ 2:00pm
Lachlan said | October 25th 2011 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Central Coast are now, like you said, changing from Saturday to Sunday, along with Sydney and Newcastle, i think a great decision made by my father, the president
October 25th 2011 @ 3:44pm
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Very interesting, as one of the presidents men !, what more can you tell us about the CC, how is it all going there, beautiful part of the world.
I have heard that at senior level, clubs may be joining the Sydney comp, or was that under 18′s
October 25th 2011 @ 6:00pm
Lachlan said | October 25th 2011 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
Yeah its a great part of the world and footy is growing year by year.
There is almost always talk of the central coast/newcastle having a combined team in the sydney premier division and u18′s competitions, but with the addition of the NEAFL this year, we seem to look more likely than ever in getting a team. I would personally back it any day of the week, but there are a few issues, but still should happen. A little while ago there was a team, before my time, ‘the hunters’ who won the premier division outright in a one-off year.
Anyway footy’s growing, juniors partically. Woy Woy are always trying to get a first grade team and now with the new Bateau Bay ground and facilities they are now pushing for respective teams. Killarney Vale (who i play for) and Terrigal-Avoca have been the strongest in all 3 senior grades in the past 5 or so years, Gosford and Wyong have always been around the mark.
October 25th 2011 @ 11:45pm
TJ said | October 25th 2011 @ 11:45pm | Report comment
Don’t forget the CC have produced established AFL stars in the McVeigh brothers that the youngsters can look up at and see that it is possible to make it to the highest level despite any barriers playing AFL in the CC that might exist.
October 26th 2011 @ 7:53pm
Lachlan said | October 26th 2011 @ 7:53pm | Report comment
Absolutely the McViegh Brothers played for the Killarney Vale Bombers at junior and i think only mark at senior level, then they moved on to Sydney to play for Pennant Hills, because of the much stronger copmp at the time. Ive met the boys on numerous different occasions, their families are living up here and they always come back at christmas time. Also we’ve produced a lot of partential players that just quite couldn’t make it to the big time. Jarad Crouch is also a local and Paul Bevan actually is from my school at Gosford.
October 25th 2011 @ 9:56am
Chris said | October 25th 2011 @ 9:56am | Report comment
I doubt there will be any expansion for the next 5-10 years – unless, as has been pointed out already, something happens to one or more existing teams. Gold Coast and GWS will take that long to get bedded down properly.
And while I agree that there are too many teams in Melbourne, I can’t see the AFL reducing this figure in the foreseeable future – if only for the reason that they are contractually obliged to play a certain number of games at Etihad and the MCG. Reduce the number of Melbourne teams and the AFl will be in breach of those contracts.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:32am
JamesP said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:32am | Report comment
The number of games contractually required to be played at Etihad is about 46 or 44 (I know the AFL can schedule I think 2 less games there in 2012 due to Etihad hosting one final this year).
I also think I read somewhere that the number will reduce to 40 games in a few years time. But why would North Melbourne want to play at the MCG – its tiny crowds already look bad enough at Etihad let alone a ground twice the size.
Yes, in 2025 the AFL will own Etihad and one could mount an argument that if North can hold out till then, it will be OK. The question is…does the AFL want to keep North in Melbourne? They would be an ideal candidate to re-locate to Tasmania long term and play some games in Melbourne where they would still get great support a la the Swans and the Lions
October 25th 2011 @ 11:35am
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 11:35am | Report comment
If Nth are pinning their survival on the AFL owning Etihad, then IMO they are living in a dream, by 2025 the stadium will probably need a overhaul and the AFL will just drip feed them, as they do now, they will probably always struggle, as a result of their small supporter base due to their geographic position, and late admittance to the league.
But most football clubs struggle from season to season, it’s just the way it is, there are no magic fixes, thats why boards change all the time, as they are worn down by the constant survival modes they are in.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:02am
Justin said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Its a massive risk (bigger than GC and GWS) to take a team to a location with under 1m people that are outside the AFL heartlands… The GC will be interesting to watch over the next 5-10 years, I dont think it will work, there is so much sport for a small population. It may be 600k but that covers a large geographic area…
October 25th 2011 @ 10:30am
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:30am | Report comment
GCFC have a very good stadium deal, sort of like Geelongs, St Kilda for EX make very little money off 35,000 crowds at Docklands, whereas GC will make very good money off 20,000.
AF fans will travel, the GC is a great weekend away, as well as a largish base of AF fans who live on the GC, i would be more concerned about some Melbourne teams before the GC.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:03am
me, I like football said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Based on population, geography, support and competition I would in expand in the following order
Tasmania
Canberra
Perth
Cairns
Darwin
I’m not saying all or any are viable just where I would expand if forced too.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:43am
JamesP said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Agree with the teams above except I would swap Cairns and Darwin over. Darwin and Palmerston combined have a population over 150k and its certainly more of an Aussie Rules heartland than Cairns is. (Cairns population may be growing faster…I am not sure).
I would also wait and see what happens with GWS and Canberra. They are contractually obliged to play 3 H&A games (plus a NAB cup game) there every year for 10 years. If, after 10 years, GWS is going gangbusters and Manuka oval is frequently sold out, then I would investigate it.
October 25th 2011 @ 6:13pm
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
I think foxtel should televise one game a week from Darwin, just for everyones footy fix, plenty of ex AFL players playing up there (Fev, Cloke, Motlops X2, etc ) , nice standard, open games, friday night from football park (Marrara ??) in Darwin ….match of the round, i reckon they would get decent ratings.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:15am
stabpass said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Based on current demographics, and future predictions, Perth should be next, they could probably support a 3rd team now. Nth QLD (Cairns) is a serious future proposition, but not quite ATM, but would probably draw crowds around what GWS are expected to draw, but obviously the sponsorship side of things are not in GWS’s ballpark.
I would expect, after GC and GWS are somewhat stable, if they ever are, that Newcastle and the Central Coast are afforded some more time, money and energy, the area is a big population centre, and there are small, but stable Australian football comps, that can provide some good growth opportunitys.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:26am
Dan said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:26am | Report comment
They shouldnt and wont, they shall consolidate the 18 team comp, The tv rights are done and locked in till 2016 i believe, that means there wont be any change at least till then. If any it would be a relocation of a melbourne team anyway. Plus do we really want to keep diluting the talent pool. Regardless it will be many years before they add another two teams.
October 25th 2011 @ 10:26am
Australian Rules said | October 25th 2011 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Agree with most above. I can’t see any more teams until all of the existing 18 clubs are solid and at least competitive – on and off-field.
In terms of “too many teams in Melb”…it’s hard to imagine that all will still be there in 20 years.
I believe North’s rejection of the GC relocation was a potentially fatal error. They knocked back a new fan base, new sponsors, guaranteed support in the millions from AFL HQ, a brand that could be sold well into a new market (the Kangaroo is the most iconic Aust symbol and people can easily relate to it), and a reinvention of a club that for too long has traded on being a “battler” (shinboners) – something that is increasingly difficult to sell in the modern market.
The relocation was thwarted, Brayshaw stepped in and the club remained in Melbourne. But…after 5 or so years, what has the club achieved? The white-knight sponsors & club supporters promised by Brayshaw never materialised and soon the paid-up members who had fought for the club suddenly were told that home games were being shopped around to Ballarat (until that went belly up when Labour got kicked out of Vic govt…Brayshaw et al hadn’t thought to convass the Libs prior to the election); and then Tassie (originally Launceston before the Hawks re-contracted to the area and eventually Hobart).
I hope the Roos will survive but they’ll have a tought slog ahead…at least it’s in keeping with their trademark.